turtlespeed 226 #1 December 29, 2004 I received this in an e-mail - I have started checking authenticity - so far so good. ______________________________________________ DID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments! DID YOU KNOW? As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door. DID YOU KNOW? As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments! DID YOU KNOW? There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C. DID YOU KNOW? James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." DID YOU KNOW? Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ". DID YOU KNOW? Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777. DID YOU KNOW? Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies. DID YOU KNOW? Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law . an oligarchy the rule of few over many. DID YOU KNOW? The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers." ______________________________________________________ Pretty interesting. I'd like to see the reaction to the removal of THOSE ten commandments. And of course this proves, once again, there was absolutely NO religious undertones when the country was founded. No, that couldn't have been.[/sarcasm]I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #2 December 29, 2004 Did you know? Roman emperors used to worship many gods. Did you know? There are many theocratic countries, such as Iran. Did you know? The Pharoahs were considered living gods? ---I find the argument about whether the country was founded on religious principles or not very strange. The country was founded and thrived on a policy of slavery. Does that make it right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #3 December 29, 2004 We still do. We just don't call it that now. We call it "allowed immigration" and "Outsourcing" You want to stop slavery and child labor - make it a law that we cannot outsorce to other countries.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wzettler 0 #4 December 29, 2004 This is an old email. QuoteI received this in an e-mail - I have started checking authenticity - so far so good. You must not be checking very well. The first one is not correct. What they are talking about is on the east side of the building, the steps going up are on the west. More here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #5 December 29, 2004 Are you actually comparing immigraation and outsourcing to slavery? Are you serious? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #6 December 29, 2004 Outsorcing - yes - Immigration - well - sort of. Outsorcing definateley. the people work for as little as $1 US per day! Even slaves were compensated with more.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #7 December 29, 2004 I'm no fan of outsourcing, and it promotes exploitation of the poor. But you have some weird notions about slavery. Being chained up, sold as property, ripped away from your family, raped, tortured, and killed. Personally, I'd rather have the buck a day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #8 December 29, 2004 QuoteDid you know? Roman emperors used to worship many gods. Did you know? There are many theocratic countries, such as Iran. Did you know? The Pharoahs were considered living gods? ---I find the argument about whether the country was founded on religious principles or not very strange. The country was founded and thrived on a policy of slavery. Does that make it right? Right or wrong....The fact is the US was founded on religous Principals....Now I am not religious, but I can clearly see that. What is wrong with admitting something so clear and evident? This country has done a fair job of keeping the church from running the government...And that was the intent of the Founding Fathers. But to claim that there were no religious undertones at the inception of this nation is quite strange."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #9 December 29, 2004 because it is much easier to change the subject and dance around what he knows to be true. PK has an aversiuon to admitting he is wrong.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 December 29, 2004 Who's wrong? I admit that the founder of this country were pious. I just don't think we should lock ourselves into governing based on religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #11 December 29, 2004 QuoteYou must not be checking very well. The first one is not correct. What they are talking about is on the east side of the building, the steps going up are on the west. More here: Ok but the IS a very simple corelation between religion and the laws of this land. QuoteThe sculpture was intended to be a symbolic representation of three of the Eastern civilizations from which our laws were derived, personified by the figures of three great lawgivers: Moses, Confucius, and Solon (surrounded by several allegorical figures representing a variety of legal themes): QuoteAnd although many viewers might assume Moses is holding a copy of the Ten Commandments in this depiction, the two tablets in his arms are actually blank. Ok so they were not engraved...Uh anyone else know what Moses held on two tablets? I don't, but then again Im not Christain, so I could have missed it. QuoteThe doors of the Supreme Court courtroom don't literally have the "Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion" — the lower portions of the two doors are engraved with a symbolic depiction, two tablets bearing only the Roman numerals I through V and VI through X. As discussed in the next item, these symbols can represent something other than the Ten Commandments. Like? Anyone? Bueler?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wzettler 0 #12 December 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe doors of the Supreme Court courtroom don't literally have the "Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion" — the lower portions of the two doors are engraved with a symbolic depiction, two tablets bearing only the Roman numerals I through V and VI through X. As discussed in the next item, these symbols can represent something other than the Ten Commandments. Like? Anyone? Bueler? The first 10 amendments known as The Bill of Rights?? I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #13 December 29, 2004 Quote I have started checking authenticity - so far so good. Well, there goes your credibility.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #14 December 29, 2004 I through V you probably learned as "This little piggy..", and VI through X are on the other foot, when extracted.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #15 December 29, 2004 QuoteWho's wrong? I admit that the founder of this country were pious. I just don't think we should lock ourselves into governing based on religion. I don't think many at all are suggesting "government based on religion (i.e. Iran's theocracy)." Religion should not control government. There should not be any "state sponsored religion" as the 1st Amendment dictates. Religion, however, was never meant to be taken out of government. The phrase "Separation of Church and State", which has been made very popular these days, clearly expresses against "state controlled government. It does not express that religion should not be included in government at all. It's just meant not to control it and everyone is free to worship (or not worship) how they please. Given the strong religious principles of people in those days, it is ridiculous to suggest that our Founding Fathers meant to remove God completely from their new government. That is an extreme notion and is wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 December 29, 2004 QuoteGiven the strong religious principles of people in those days, it is ridiculous to suggest that our Founding Fathers meant to remove God completely from their new government. That is an extreme notion and is wrong. Again, I don't see anyone claiming that they did. What's the argument? However, when legislation is passed based on religious fundamentals, that is wrong. And it happens all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #17 December 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteWho's wrong? I admit that the founder of this country were pious. I just don't think we should lock ourselves into governing based on religion. I don't think many at all are suggesting "government based on religion (i.e. Iran's theocracy)." Religion should not control government. There should not be any "state sponsored religion" as the 1st Amendment dictates. Religion, however, was never meant to be taken out of government. The phrase "Separation of Church and State", which has been made very popular these days, clearly expresses against "state controlled government. It does not express that religion should not be included in government at all. It's just meant not to control it and everyone is free to worship (or not worship) how they please. Given the strong religious principles of people in those days, it is ridiculous to suggest that our Founding Fathers meant to remove God completely from their new government. That is an extreme notion and is wrong. Jesus endorsed separation of Church and State: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. "... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #18 December 29, 2004 QuoteDID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments Yeah, so is Mohahmed (sp) and a bunch of other figures from mythology. Your point is? QuoteDID YOU KNOW? James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." No he didn't. Where is the source for this quote? QuoteDID YOU KNOW? Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777. Just because something that is wrong has been done for a long time, it doesn't make it right. Religious rituals have no place in a secular state. QuoteDID YOU KNOW? Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies. So what if they were? QuoteDID YOU KNOW? The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers." So what if he did? If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran, Pakistan, or some of the sub Saharan countries of Africa. Whether you like it or not, we are a secular democracy here. The first amendment ensures that. If you don't like it, leave. As for taking down those other unconstitutional "monuments", the sooner, the better.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #19 December 29, 2004 QuoteJesus endorsed separation of Church and State: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. " Kallend, are you now professing to believe in Jesus and the written Word? Good for you! However, You should really keep things in context, especially when quoting from the Bible. Keeping a close watch on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be honest. They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said so that they might hand him over to the power and authority of the governor. So the spies questioned him: "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show paritiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" He saw through their duplicity and said to them, "Show me a denarius. Whose portrait and inscription are on it? "Caesar's", they replied. He said to them, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." They were unable to trap him in what he had said there in public. And astonished by his answer, they became silent. Luke 20:20-26 Explained: Believers "under normal circumstances" must pay taxes and submit to governmental authority, even through our highest loyalty is to God. We must obey secular government except when it conflicts with the law of God. Jesus was making the point that God is the supreme authority. It has nothing at all to do with separation of religion from government. Jesus never suggests that the Roman government should remain secular and not acknowledge God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #20 December 29, 2004 QuoteOutsorcing definateley. the people work for as little as $1 US per day! Even slaves were compensated with more. You have got to be joking......No I guess you're not.....how sad Please explain to me how that statement is even remotly true, I can't wait to here this. I always find it funny that people point to the "forefathers" of this country as being religious and how good they were when in fact they were thugs stealing the natives land and using slave labor to build the economy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #21 December 29, 2004 Well, they did get 40 acres and a mule. I'd willingly volunteer for slavery for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 December 29, 2004 Quote I through V you probably learned as "This little piggy..", and VI through X are on the other foot, when extracted. Looks suspiciously like a personal attack....Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #23 December 29, 2004 Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I through V you probably learned as "This little piggy..", and VI through X are on the other foot, when extracted. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks suspiciously like a personal attack.... Yes, but he will get away with it....Just like always."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #24 December 29, 2004 Quote Well, they did get 40 acres and a mule. I'd willingly volunteer for slavery for that. Crazy and if you were real lucky you got to watch your wife get raped and have your children sold off........yep the compensation was great. Shows those good old American values at work. Still waiting for Turtlespeed to defend the indefensible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #25 December 29, 2004 QuoteQuote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I through V you probably learned as "This little piggy..", and VI through X are on the other foot, when extracted. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks suspiciously like a personal attack.... Yes, but he will get away with it....Just like always. Uh huh... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
