Lostinspace 0 #1 December 28, 2004 Outrageous or appropriate? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6762079/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #2 December 28, 2004 In just the first two days the US has donated $35million in cash. That doesn't count the cost of the Red Cross workers and other volunteers that flew out with supplies, or those that went to help with labor or search and rescue. It also doesn't count the individual donations via websites or hotlines. If we can spend billions to kill people, we should be able to give billions to help grow and repair after a tragedy like this._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 December 28, 2004 Spot on ...except not only the US ... we're all in this together. This is a WORLD disaster and if we have to cancel a few Euro Fighters (et al.) then so be it Note To our Governments - Just get it done and fast. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #4 December 28, 2004 Appropriate.........the industrialized nations of the world have a moral obligation to help the less fortunateMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #5 December 28, 2004 QuoteAppropriate.........the industrialized nations of the world have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate Very true. Epsecially when one billion is 0.0091% of our GDP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #6 December 28, 2004 clip, clop, clip, clop, trot, trot, trot, trot, canter, canter, gallop, gallop... SLAM! Hopefully what DOES come out of this particular tragedy is an early warning system similar to that in The Pacific! OK, it can't give the same degree of warning, but even 30 minutes is better than "$hit - look at the tide going out!!?" Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #7 December 29, 2004 a better thing to ask would it be better to send it direct or funnel it through the UN? I have no problem if it goes through a program that the money gets to the people. I do not want to buy a fleet of yatchs for family members of those high up in the UN! I was outraged at the UN guy who said we are more than willing to pay more taxes to help out. I'll make a direct payment to whom I think handles the money and helps the people best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #8 December 29, 2004 QuoteAppropriate.........the industrialized nations of the world have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate No, they don't. The generousity of those nations should not be confused with an obligation. Years ago, the wealthy felt an obligation to patronize the arts and engage in philanthropy because of their "station in life." That wasn't morality, but rather ego stroking and peer pressure. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #9 December 29, 2004 I wholeheartedly agree with miked(lots of numbers) on this. We should send some aid and support, but most importantly we should take steps to try to prevent this from happening to such a magnitude in the future. Some tragedies are devastating and horrid, and sometimes bad things happen without cause or warning... but in situation like this, many could have been warned and thousands of deaths prevented. We need to, as a WORLD, somehow establish communications and plans for natural disasters. It's easy, here on the internet, after the fact, to armchair quarterback and say "they could have called the resorts" or "they should have set up a runner form of notification"... but critisizing what was done and actually setting up a permanent system are two entirely different things. There needs to be a dedicated specific portion of the donation to prevention... I'm not saying that we don't help those who need it now.... and again PREVENT the many deaths that may come as a result of the diseases associated with severe flooding. Make sure they have clean water, antibiotics, food, shelter... and money helps with that, but better global communication should be more the focus. I also find it a bit distasteful that the UN was chastizing the US on our initial level of donation (personal bias, and now the defense is that his words were taken out of context). I feel that the UN should be working better to UNITE the nations... and not guilt us into charity. We should understand that there is a level of obligation to the world... but to transition from the American dollar as the "root of all evil" belief to an attitide of "it's all about the Benjamins," seems to do more to alienate. It's amusing to see how America is viewed as the Evil Capitalist until the money is needed - then it's "but you have all the money" and "you need to donate to ....(insert whatever)...." Don't misunderstand - I do think we, as individuals, as a nation, and as a global communitiy, should offer to help - especially in this situation... but I also believe that our assistance should not be an OBLIGATION imposed on us; it should be a desire to better the world we live in. I am still a scab (for those that have read Atlas Shrugged) and I do believe that we should help others to the best of our ablities, but who is the UN to now say what level of donation we should make, or even who are we to say what people should or should not contribute (look in the bonfire about how many people wont give perfect strangers in their own cities $10 for fear that they might use drugs or alcohol or somehting "unworthy"... agian not for us to judge) (sorry if the soapbox was too long, or if this came off as an "Ugly American" attitude, but I just got so annoyed when I heard the criticism about what amount had been given when that should NOT be the focus) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #10 December 29, 2004 QuoteWe should send some aid and support WE should do EVERYTHING we can. Withdraw 100,000 troops from Iraq and have them help with the rescue efforts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #11 December 29, 2004 QuoteYears ago, the wealthy felt an obligation to patronize the arts and engage in philanthropy because of their "station in life." That wasn't morality, but rather ego stroking and peer pressure. I doubt Rockefeller or Carnigie would agree with you. John D donated hundreds of millions of dollars because he wanted to and thought it was his duty, Carnigie also agreed with him. Carnegie considered philanthropy a moral imperative. Bill Gates and his wife said the following when asked about their foundation: "It was our commitment 10 years ago that whatever wealth we earn we will give back to the society." Gates has donated over 2 billion dollars. We are the richest and most powerful nation the World has ever seen. Many here say we should be the policemen of the World. Well that role has several sides and one is to help out in times of crisis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #12 December 29, 2004 Quote QuoteWe should send some aid and support WE should do EVERYTHING we can. Withdraw 100,000 troops from Iraq and have them help with the rescue efforts. I disagree with such a bold statement, we still have to deal with the affairs of the state. I try not to demand too much of others. But still try to give what I can to make things better. I have gone on medical missions (and have ones planned for the future), I have donated 8 gallons of blood, and I have given $10 to the homeless guy in the city... but "EVERYTHING" is an unobtainable goal....... and unless EVERY shirt in your closet was sent and your cuppords are bare, it's just rhetoric. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #13 December 29, 2004 To my opinion this is a big opertunity for the US (and europe) to show the world we are peaseminded and we care about other regions in the world. This will reduce the changes of muslim terrorists to find a safe-heaven in this area. On the other side if the majority of the help comes from extreme muslim groups,.......... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #14 December 29, 2004 Should we help? Yes. Should we allow some jackass in the UN to decide how much is enough? Nope. I find it funny that the European Union has only offered 30 Million and the US has already offered 35 Million. Canada only One Million? And these same countries slam us every chance they get. And a question to those who think we should give so much more.... What if the choice was body armor, or helping out? We should help out, since we can. But how many countries have we thrown money at over the years only to have our gererosity ignored after the checks are cashed? So the US, seen as a deep pocket country, will continue to help out as best we can...And while we do it, we will get slammed for it not being enough (Even though it is more than anyone else) and our generosity will be ignored as it always is."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #15 December 29, 2004 Of course the U.S. will pour more aid to the disaster-struck area that all other countries combined. U.S. companies will also find many ways of capitalizing off the recovery efforts, too. Business as usual. Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #16 December 29, 2004 That Guy from norway is not thinking straight.... First of all, the aid given by the US doesn't count all the FOOD aid we give to the world. It doesn't count the BILLIONS in private donations given all over the world. The real problem is that this guy thinks the US government should tax it's people more to create a fund for giving money in relief efforts.... Again, another example of a foreign socialist trying to tell the american how they should be running their country. This guy made a stupid comment, and then said he wasn't pointing at the USA... Really? Actually he made 2 direct references to the USA when discussing our contributions. So, how much do the citizens of your country donate to charity annually?? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #17 December 29, 2004 Whats that work out at? About 50 cents per an American? How much does one value human life? Would you withhold 50 cents that would save lives? After 9/11 I and many others around the world gave to the fund, its time to give a little to others who will never have what we take for granted. Now is the time to show the world the best of America, the humanity and warmth that resides within America, if America reachs out to the worlds largest Muslim nation at this time it will do more to destroy Al Queida than all the bombs dropped since 9/11 ten times over. America is the worlds only superpower, with great power comes great responsibility. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #18 December 29, 2004 THe UK alone has sent £15 Million. Don't know what the current exchange rate is but thats alot of dollars when you look at the respective sizes of the UK and USWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #19 December 29, 2004 It's been a couple days. I'm sure we will have spent quite a large sum assisting them over the coming weeks and months. Keeping score on who gives how much is stupid and petty (not directed at you, Skyrad). We're sending a big part of a naval fleet to assist, that costs quite a few dollars as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #20 December 29, 2004 QuoteNow is the time to show the world the best of America, the humanity and warmth that resides within America, if America reachs out to the worlds largest Muslim nation at this time it will do more to destroy Al Queida than all the bombs dropped since 9/11 ten times over. It will not effect AQ at all. The majority of those fighting the Us don't read the papers, and those that do will not share that information, or will distort it. The US will help, like it always has. Then the world will bitch about how the US could have done more even when they did more than anyone else. The World will bitch about how the US could have done it better... Basicly the world will bitch about the US as normal just like always. Edit to add: QuoteBy that measure, the United States spent almost $15.8 billion for "official development assistance" to developing countries in 2003. Next closest was Japan, at $8.9 billion. That doesn't include billions more the United States spends in other areas such as AIDS and HIV programs and other U.N. assistance. So the US gave 15.8 Billion last year. And that does not include any donations by private people. QuoteAmericans last year gave an estimated $241 billion to charitable causes -- domestic and foreign -- according to a study by Giving USA Foundation. That's up from $234 billion in 2002. The foundation did not break down how much was for domestic causes and how much for foreign. Japan was second, but a FAR second with 6.9 Billion behind. And still people bitch about the US. Also for all of those that hate the US and Bush QuoteThe chief of U.S. Agency for International Development, which distributes foreign aid, was quick to point out Tuesday that foreign assistance for development and emergency relief rose from $10 billion in President Clinton's last year to $24 billion under President Bush in 2003 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #21 December 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteNow is the time to show the world the best of America, the humanity and warmth that resides within America, if America reachs out to the worlds largest Muslim nation at this time it will do more to destroy Al Queida than all the bombs dropped since 9/11 ten times over. It will not effect AQ at all. The majority of those fighting the Us don't read the papers, and those that do will not share that information, or will distort it. The US will help, like it always has. Then the world will bitch about how the US could have done more even when they did more than anyone else. The World will bitch about how the US could have done it better... Basicly the world will bitch about the US as normal just like always. Hear Hear!!!! Seriously, do you think the muslims in Indonesia will know how much the US gives???? Do you think they will care or remember in 10yrs from now??? Damned if we do, damned if we don't. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #22 December 29, 2004 QuoteShould we help? Yes. I find it funny that the European Union has only offered 30 Million and the US has already offered 35 Million. Germany at the moment is at 20 Milliion Euros or 27 Million Dollars. Your Number probably means the amount the European Union as an institution offered. Comparison at the moment isn't relly possible because the numbers rise daily. Also some countries the government donates more, in others its the people themselevs donate more. In the end, just go and donate some money. I will right now. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #23 December 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteNow is the time to show the world the best of America, the humanity and warmth that resides within America, if America reachs out to the worlds largest Muslim nation at this time it will do more to destroy Al Queida than all the bombs dropped since 9/11 ten times over. It will not effect AQ at all. The majority of those fighting the Us don't read the papers, and those that do will not share that information, or will distort it. The US will help, like it always has. Then the world will bitch about how the US could have done more even when they did more than anyone else. The World will bitch about how the US could have done it better... Basicly the world will bitch about the US as normal just like always. Hear Hear!!!! Seriously, do you think the muslims in Indonesia will know how much the US gives???? Do you think they will care or remember in 10yrs from now??? Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Being rich has its problems: [1] And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. [2] And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. [3] And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: [24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV)... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #24 December 29, 2004 QuoteThis will reduce the changes of muslim terrorists to find a safe-heaven in this area. On the other side if the majority of the help comes from extreme muslim groups,.......... Interesting thing I heard this morning; dunno how true it is. There are some parts of Thailand and Indonesia that are controlled by terrorist organizations such as the Tamile Tigers (and others). They are refusing assistence from the US (and I think other western nations) and are determined to "go it alone." I wonder what will happen? Who will help those folks? That's what I wonder. I for one believe that we, the US, will do everything we can, as we always do, to rebuild, re-establish, and assist those in need. We will do it in conjunction with other countries, as we always do. And we will risk our lives and health to do so. And we will be vilified by those who choose to, simply because they believe we should "do more" and do it faster. Oh well...that's the way it goes. We get lambasted one way or another. Nothing new with that. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #25 December 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteNow is the time to show the world the best of America, the humanity and warmth that resides within America, if America reachs out to the worlds largest Muslim nation at this time it will do more to destroy Al Queida than all the bombs dropped since 9/11 ten times over. It will not effect AQ at all. The majority of those fighting the Us don't read the papers, and those that do will not share that information, or will distort it. The US will help, like it always has. Then the world will bitch about how the US could have done more even when they did more than anyone else. The World will bitch about how the US could have done it better... Basicly the world will bitch about the US as normal just like always. Hear Hear!!!! Seriously, do you think the muslims in Indonesia will know how much the US gives???? Do you think they will care or remember in 10yrs from now??? Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Being rich has its problems: [1] And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. [2] And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. [3] And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: [24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV) This of course assumes that all who are rich are corrupt does it not? So you must feel hard work and dedication as well as a strong work ethic gives a person nothing but a corrupt mind? You then should stop training your students to learn. They may become wealthy and evil!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
