SpeedRacer 1 #1 December 25, 2004 I was reading in another forum about an incident that happened in the UK. A young guy was walking down the street wearing a T-shirt that said "Jesus is a cunt!" The cops came by & made him give them the shirt. I'm not sure (they didn't say in the post) but the rationale may have been that the shirt was so inflammatory that the cops thought it might disturb the peace, cause a fight/riot, etc... So how far does freedom of speech go? Is it OK to wear a shirt like that in view of the public/children, etc? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #2 December 25, 2004 NO! I would take that shirt off him myself. And I don't care how big he is. That is like throwing the first punch. Period. Besides. Everyone knows that Jesus was a boy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #3 December 25, 2004 My favourite T-Shirt sais: "Dip me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians" although i admit that my T-Shirt could be offensive to a minority, and could very well start a riot should i wear it in some selected places, i certainly wouldn´t expect the authorities to make me remove the T-Shirt. What about the T-Shirt that sais: "I don´t do mingers". Will the ugly chicks get offended? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 December 25, 2004 I may be wrong, but I do not believe the UK has the same protections afforded US citizens by the 1st Amendment.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #5 December 25, 2004 The 1st Amendment gives me the "RIGHT" to say or write anything.... Even if 99.99% of the people in this country thinks it gross or not nice.... The courts have only put a hold on things like yelling "FIRE" in a building when there is none, And child porn.... Thats the greatest right we have in this country... To be able to express your views freely.... Thats is why the civil right people marched and it why the KKK is allowed to march..... Freedom of Speech.... Killer..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 December 26, 2004 QuoteThe courts have only put a hold on things like yelling "FIRE" in a building when there is none, And child porn.... OK, so we accept that there is some limit somewhere. We can allow adults to buy magazines/other media showing other adults naked, but not if they are under 18. so the slippery slope model is not valid. And Freedom of Speech does not mean anything goes. So again, how far does it go? Some have pointed out that the amendments define what the GOVERNMENT can do, not what the private owner can do. OK: Scenario 1: The guy with the T-shirt walks into my store. I am or am not a Christian & I get offended. I tell him to get out of my store, I do not wish to serve him. Scenario 2: I am a racist who assumes that most blacks are criminals. A black person enters my store, so I tell him to leave because I do not wish to serve him. Are the two scenarios the same? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 December 26, 2004 QuoteNO! I would take that shirt off him myself. And I don't care how big he is. That is like throwing the first punch. Period. It's pretty easy in the Bay Area to get shirts and bumpers stickers that say "Fuck the Police." This Jesus shirt would hardly raise an eyebrow here. But it would be more of a reach to call it political speech, so it might fall under the purview of obscenity laws for the given community. Then again, I have a tshirt "Fast as Fuck" from your store... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #8 December 26, 2004 QuoteI was reading in another forum about an incident that happened in the UK. A young guy was walking down the street wearing a T-shirt that said "Jesus is a cunt!" I saw a guy with that shirt in Philly a couple months ago. I'm hoping he stayed out of the Irish and Italian enclaves in S. Philly. No matter what the constitution says, he'd be one hurtin' mf'er. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 December 26, 2004 QuoteOK: Scenario 1: The guy with the T-shirt walks into my store. I am or am not a Christian & I get offended. I tell him to get out of my store, I do not wish to serve him. Scenario 2: I am a racist who assumes that most blacks are criminals. A black person enters my store, so I tell him to leave because I do not wish to serve him. Are the two scenarios the same? You're overlooking "protected class" status. Private citizens do not have the right to discriminate as to whom they do business with based on their membership in a "protected class". Having a TShirt isn't a membership. Being born to a race that was enslaved by a nation a mere half dozen genereations is a little different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #10 December 26, 2004 QuoteI was reading in another forum about an incident that happened in the UK. A young guy was walking down the street wearing a T-shirt that said "Jesus is a cunt!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I saw a guy with that shirt in Philly a couple months ago. I'm hoping he stayed out of the Irish and Italian enclaves in S. Philly. No matter what the constitution says, he'd be one hurtin' mf'er. yeah, that's the other thing. WTF are these people thinking? What effect are they trying to have by wearing this, and will they complain if someone kicks them out of a store/restaurant, or kicks their ass? Frankly I'd have a hard time scraping up any sympathy for these dumbasses. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #11 December 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteNO! I would take that shirt off him myself. And I don't care how big he is. That is like throwing the first punch. Period. It's pretty easy in the Bay Area to get shirts and bumpers stickers that say "Fuck the Police." This Jesus shirt would hardly raise an eyebrow here. But it would be more of a reach to call it political speech, so it might fall under the purview of obscenity laws for the given community. Then again, I have a tshirt "Fast as Fuck" from your store... It's not the swear word. It's not the anti religion thing. I really don't see any humor in it. I am not particularly religous. But this shirt just comes across as a blatent attempt to piss people off as opposed to make a statement. It would piss off people who love Jesus and people who hate the word cunt. I used to sport a mohawk and wear a shirt that said, "Make love, not war.", and wear it on base to visit my brother who is a Marine. I really felt that I was making a statement. My poor brother would just roll his eyes. Anyway. I guess I just don't see the statement in saying that Jesus is a cunt. There is no pun there that I can see. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #12 December 26, 2004 QuoteIt's not the swear word. It's not the anti religion thing. I think the swear word is just about the worst word you could use to describe a female in my opinion...I would rather be called a bitch...But like you were saying I really don't care if someone has it on a shirt... QuoteI really don't see any humor in it. I am not particularly religous. But this shirt just comes across as a blatent attempt to piss people off as opposed to make a statement. It would piss off people who love Jesus and people who hate the word cunt. I agree...this is a guaranteed way to gain someone's attention, whoever that may be...and to start a fight or an argument...either way it's just not funny...kinda stupid...but I see people doing stupid things everyday to get attention for no other reason than they want to be noticed...... QuoteAnyway. I guess I just don't see the statement in saying that Jesus is a cunt. There is no pun there that I can see. I agree...no humor, no pun...so what's the point...I have seen much more controversial shirts that are far more humorous... Now, I'm not sure that if I were a cop that I would have made the guy remove the shirt...But, if he started trouble because of the stupid shirt...well, that's a different story...... ~R+R...Like..."I'm with stupid--->" or 7-up yours...or anything on T-shirt Hell......are far funnier......~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #13 December 27, 2004 NO! I would take that shirt off him myself. And I don't care how big he is. [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Personally I think it's kinda funny. I wouldn't wear it OR maybe I would. Kinda a NUKE THE WHALES funny. BUT If I were to wear it and you tried to take it off me. YOU'RE FUCKIN w/ the wrong person. Get in my face and I'm gonna do my best TO FUCK YOU UP. COP or otherwise.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 December 27, 2004 Quote It's not the swear word. It's not the anti religion thing. I really don't see any humor in it. I am not particularly religous. But this shirt just comes across as a blatent attempt to piss people off as opposed to make a statement. It would piss off people who love Jesus and people who hate the word cunt. If it's not about the profanity, then you drift back towards political speech. If you go to Salt Lake City and walk over the to Kremlin, I mean, Mormon Temple, you'll see protestors outside with signs like "Ask about the Mormon Cult" and "The Mormons attacked my church." Pretty offensive to a large chunk of the residents there. I'm with PK - one can choose to wear it, but have no rights to cry assault if someone else chooses to kick their ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duckwater 0 #15 December 27, 2004 http://www.tshirthell.com/worsethanhell.shtml I think some of these are amusing ......But,,,,I can't think of anywhere I could be seen in one without feeling like a dick..... Mabye the I like my women like I like my coffee one.... Mike -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #16 December 27, 2004 The fact that this incident happened in the UK would mean that US constitution has no bearing, but if the shirt were worn in the US, it would most likely be considered protected speech. I believe the case with the applicable precedent would be Cohen v California. Cohen wore into a courthouse in California a jacket that said "Fuck the Draft," and was charged and convicted of a crime. The Supreme Court ruled that The use of the word fuck was not obscene, as it did not appeal to prurient interests (contribute to sexual arousal) of a typical member of the community. The jacket also did not, and was very unlikely to, incite immediate violence. In order for a t-shirt saying "jesus is a cunt" to be deemed obscene, it would have to be arousing to an average member of the community. Only if it could be argued that "jesus is a cunt" would have an extremely high liklihood of inciting immediate violence, would wearing such a shirt not be protected by the first amendment. That would be a very difficult argument to make, considering those most likely to be offended, devout Christians who believe and follow the message of Christ, should be among the least likely to be violent. That doesn't make the wearer any less of an ass, though. But that's not illegal.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 December 27, 2004 Obviously, things will be different in the UK and US. But, the US Supreme Court has held that a roughly similar slogan (this one read "Fuck the Draft") was to be permitted in public buildings, in [url "http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/cohen.html"]Cohen v. California (1971)[/URL]. The quick summary of the case is (emphasis added by me): QuoteAppellant was convicted of violating that part of Cal. Penal Code § 415 which prohibits "maliciously and willfully disturb[ing] the peace or quiet of any neighborhood or person . . . by . . . offensive conduct," for wearing a jacket bearing the words "Fuck the Draft" in a corridor of the Los Angeles Courthouse. The Court of Appeal held that "offensive conduct" means "behavior which has a tendency to provoke others to acts of violence or to in turn disturb the peace," and affirmed the conviction. Held: Absent a more particularized and compelling reason for its actions, the State may not, consistently with the First and Fourteenth Amendments, make the simple public display of this single four-letter expletive a criminal offense. Pp. 22-26.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #18 December 27, 2004 Jinx! In other words, "look what happens when I start posting and go looking for links..."-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #19 December 27, 2004 Thanks for the link. I'm away from my own computer for the holidays, and don't have the patience to find more links with dial-up! My broadband has me spoiled.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverjerry 0 #20 December 27, 2004 absent of political or civil or religuse views it may be that the guy was on his way to church and just wanted to win a darwin award. hehehelife is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #21 December 27, 2004 QuoteNO! I would take that shirt off him myself. And I don't care how big he is. [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Personally I think it's kinda funny. I wouldn't wear it OR maybe I would. Kinda a NUKE THE WHALES funny. BUT If I were to wear it and you tried to take it off me. YOU'RE FUCKIN w/ the wrong person. Get in my face and I'm gonna do my best TO FUCK YOU UP. COP or otherwise. Well then. Remind me to stay out of your face. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #22 December 27, 2004 You realize you just said you're not going to let a hot skychick get your clothes off, right? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 December 27, 2004 Quotehttp://www.tshirthell.com/worsethanhell.shtml I own and wear several I have "This is my clone" "Medium Pimpin" and "Also available in sober" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #24 December 27, 2004 Personally, I feel, the First Ammendment to the U.S. Constitution has been stretched, contorted and twisted to a near breaking point. Anything said or written, someone, somewhere is going to take offense. To me, anyone offended by something written or spoken, has the same right to voice their opinion. Someone who writes or speaks something potentially offensive to someone else, should be prepared to hear the responses. I don't know, how far it'll get you... The pendulum swings both ways. It's all there in the First Ammendment. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #25 December 27, 2004 QuotePersonally, I feel, the First Ammendment to the U.S. Constitution has been stretched, contorted and twisted to a near breaking point. Anything said or written, someone, somewhere is going to take offense. To me, anyone offended by something written or spoken, has the same right to voice their opinion. Someone who writes or speaks something potentially offensive to someone else, should be prepared to hear the responses. I don't know, how far it'll get you... The pendulum swings both ways. It's all there in the First Ammendment. Chuck Did you mean to say it has been constricted? It's hard to stretch it beyond where it started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
