RoadRash 0 #51 December 20, 2004 QuoteI have heard the right deny truth to the accusations, but have not seen any supporting evidence. I am trying to understand why this stuff is not making mainstream media. If there are valid reasons, great. Inform us. I started this thread to establish a Socratic dialog. Hello chris, from the US...I suppose...but, yes, this claptrap makes it to the mainstream media all the time...I supposed you were unable to watch T.V. or read a newspaper prior to the election...but most of the "accusations" lack supporting evidence and that is why it is no longer reported following a blurb on networks... I'm curious chris, what do you do? Where do you live? How is this argument a Socratic dialog? I'm curious...and I am sure others want to know... ~R+R...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #52 December 20, 2004 QuoteThats an issue with the UN, not the US. So, it is okay to pick and choose which resolutions should be enforced, and which ones should be ignored? Sorry, I don't buy that. Your accusations of an Oil for Food scandal is hilarious in light of Enron, Halliburton, Carlisle Group, etc. A bit like the pot calling the kettle black. QuoteYou have not read much. The UN voted on it. Any spin otherwise is liberal slant. I guess reading a lot is relative. Why is it that anything media reports that don't blindly support Shrub are from a "liberal media?" QuoteUntil then you are going to have a hard time defending him. Why would I defend him? If he screwed up as badly as Shrub has, then he should be held responsible. Unlike some people, I do not blindly support one side. QuoteThe only thing funny is your lack of understanding. I am trying to understand, but so far, I have only been offered hollow arguments supporting Shrub.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #53 December 20, 2004 QuoteYou ignored all the evidence about Dulfer and all the quotes from Gore, Kerry and Burger about Saddam and the WMD's. Sorry, I was too busy laughing about how Kerry is simultaneously more liberal than Ted Kennedy and a war mongerer in favor of invading Iraq. Which one is it again?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #54 December 20, 2004 Quote If I have to show you that Kerry is a liberal then you have not been watching the news at all for the past year. If I have to explain why Kerry is A LOT closer to center than Shrub, then you evidently do not understand political philosophy.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #55 December 20, 2004 QuoteQuote If I have to show you that Kerry is a liberal then you have not been watching the news at all for the past year. If I have to explain why Kerry is A LOT closer to center than Shrub, then you evidently do not understand political philosophy. And obviously, neither do you...now play nice...~R+R...Kerry......more center......than BUSH............~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #56 December 20, 2004 QuoteHello chris, from the US...I suppose...but, yes, this claptrap makes it to the mainstream media all the time...I supposed you were unable to watch T.V. or read a newspaper prior to the election...but most of the "accusations" lack supporting evidence and that is why it is no longer reported following a blurb on networks... Like I said, I only follow current event a couple hours a day, regardless of when the next election is. Would you be so kind as to show me where the mainstream media has examined this isue? QuoteHow is this argument a Socratic dialog? I'm curious...and I am sure others want to know... It is like a Socratic dialog in that it started objectively with the intent of examining an issue that I believe has not been adequately addressed. There have been many educational links within my posts, including four in the first post that should have been read before any reply was made. All the arguments Ron, Anvil and others have offered in favor of Shrub have, for the most part, already been addressed. But they are dismissed by the right, because they don't come from right wing news organizations. Still, the accusations against Shrub do not seem that far-fetched to any open minded individual who stays current with the news.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #57 December 20, 2004 Bwwwaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!! Whatever. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #58 December 20, 2004 QuoteIt is like a Socratic dialog in that it started objectively with the intent of examining an issue that I believe has not been adequately addressed. You point out YOUR objectivity...and I will point out the fact that you posted a thread where you had already decided that the "accusations" you speak of were fact and sought out others who agreed with your point of view... Done... ~R+R...nappy time...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #59 December 20, 2004 QuoteAnd obviously, neither do you I know enough to know what fascism is. And that we are NOT a democracy. If you have anything positive to add, feel free, but you are not being productive.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #60 December 20, 2004 Quoteand I will point out the fact that you posted a thread where you had already decided that the "accusations" you speak of were fact and sought out others who agreed with your point of view... I'm sorry, you must have missed my repeated invitation to bring facts to offer in debate. Yes, I think Shrub is a terrible leader. Do I really feel he is a fascist? Maybe, maybe not, but I am not about to dismiss the idea out of hand because this is America and that can't happen here. Call me open-minded.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #61 December 20, 2004 Quoteyou are not being productive. And neither are you...however, we are not a pure democracy...and I believe anyone you ask who is at all versed in American politics knows that... I have one word for you...republic...you know...that whole...elected officials thing...... ~R+R...And who made you a moderator all of a sudden...? I can post whatever I want...that does not go against the rules of the forum...you made your case...and now I am making mine...Or are you trying to state that I should not openly give my opinion? That sounds rather closed-minded...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #62 December 20, 2004 QuoteCall me open-minded. Isn't that the same as saying that you support terrorism? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #63 December 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteCall me open-minded. Isn't that the same as saying that you support terrorism? No... ~R+R...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #64 December 20, 2004 Quoteit started objectively Now that's funny! Your statements, links, and so called evidence, has been far from objective, in fact they are dripping with bias... you can't even use the President's real name... why would anyone really want try to enter into a real discussion when it is obvious all you want to do is argue? CNN not left leaning, but Fox is not credible? That's just plain silly. Kerry doesn't have a "liberal" voting record? I suppose you think Ted Kennedy is a conservative... Thread started as an objective discussion... now that was a good chuckle J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #65 December 20, 2004 Quote...And who made you a moderator all of a sudden...? I can post whatever I want...that does not go against the rules of the forum...you made your case...and now I am making mine...Or are you trying to state that I should not openly give my opinion? That sounds rather closed-minded... I am not trying to be a moderator, but you questioned my objectivity. I pointed out that unfounded rhetoric is not productive. You are free to express your opinion, IMO. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #66 December 20, 2004 Quotewhy would anyone really want try to enter into a real discussion when it is obvious all you want to do is argue? 1. That is what an open debate is about, arguing. 2. That is what this forum is for. I readily admit that the original post was one sided. It was, however accompanied with an invitation to hear arguments presented by the other side. How is that not promoting an objective discussion?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #67 December 20, 2004 >you can't even use the President's real name... There are plenty of people on here who do that. One prominent conservative poster can't bring himself to use Clinton's name and instead uses "El Jefe Clintonista." >CNN not left leaning, but Fox is not credible? In a recent study, FOX viewers had the greatest number of incorrect beliefs about the war (i.e. that Iraqis pulled off 9/11, we found WMD's etc.) But that doesn't really matter. If you're a republican, you think FOX is credible and CNN is left leaning. If you're a democrat, you think CNN is centrist and FOX is a tool of the right wing. >why would anyone really want try to enter into a real discussion when >it is obvious all you want to do is argue? You are seriously asking this in speaker's corner? What else does anyone do here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #68 December 20, 2004 QuoteThere are plenty of people on here who do that. One prominent conservative poster can't bring himself to use Clinton's name and instead uses "El Jefe Clintonista." Let's not forget sKerry and DemoKKKrats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #69 December 20, 2004 QuoteIf you're a republican, you think FOX is credible and CNN is left leaning. If you're a democrat, you think CNN is centrist and FOX is a tool of the right wing. Who was it that said, if you speek in absolutes, you are almost certain to be wrong? I'm a conservative (party affiliation doesn't mean anything)... I recognize Fox has a right leaning editorial policy, as do some other outlets... I also observe that there are other outlets, including CNN, that have left leaning editorial policies... QuoteThere are plenty of people on here who do that. One prominent conservative poster can't bring himself to use Clinton's name and instead uses "El Jefe Clintonista." And I think that is pretty silly too... I've probably done it in the past, but it really doesn't add to the discussions, so I don't do it anymore. QuoteFOX viewers had the greatest number of incorrect beliefs about the war (i.e. that Iraqis pulled off 9/11, we found WMD's etc.) It was probably a CNN poll Since I haven't actually seen the poll, did it include Al Jezzira views? J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #70 December 20, 2004 >Since I haven't actually seen the poll, did it include Al Jezzira views? No, it really just concentrated on three questions: -Has an Al-Qaeda/Saddam link been clearly demonstrated? -Since the war began, has the US found Iraqi WMD programs? -Did the majority of the people in the world support US invasion of Iraq? 80% of those who got their news from FOX answered at least one incorrectly. 23% of people who got their news from NPR answered at least one incorrectly. Other networks (CBS, ABC, CNN etc) were somewhere in between. http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #71 December 20, 2004 QuoteSo, it is okay to pick and choose which resolutions should be enforced, and which ones should be ignored? Sorry, I don't buy that. Youare the one doing that. Claiming we had no right to uphold the UN resolution in Iraq, but clamiing we let Israel slide. Hey man, the UN lest Israel slide, they also let Iraq slide for 12 years. Its the staus quo in the UN. QuoteYour accusations of an Oil for Food scandal is hilarious in light of Enron, Halliburton, Carlisle Group, etc. A bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Except the UN claims to be a NON-PROFIT agency. But they sure mad ea good prfit ignoring it's own resolutions. See HB, CG never said "Don't do this" and then did it. The UN did exactly that. QuoteI guess reading a lot is relative. Why is it that anything media reports that don't blindly support Shrub are from a "liberal media?" Why do you have to call the CiC "shrub" and slam anything on the right? QuoteWhy would I defend him? You just did. QuoteI am trying to understand, but so far, I have only been offered hollow arguments supporting Shrub. Have a nice day, its clear you can't get over the hatred of The President. I have no need to discuss anything withsomeone as blind/filled with hate as you"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #72 December 20, 2004 QuoteSorry, I was too busy laughing about how Kerry is simultaneously more liberal than Ted Kennedy and a war mongerer in favor of invading Iraq. Which one is it again? So as par the course for you, you try to mislead insted of answer. Like I said have a nice hate filled life."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #73 December 20, 2004 QuoteSo as tpar the course for you, you try to mislead insted of answer. Its me misleading now? QuoteLike I said have a nice hate filled life. I try to avoid hate and fear. That is why I do not support Shrub. His policies promote those ideals, which I feel is wrong.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #74 December 20, 2004 >Like I said have a nice hate filled life. >. . . someone as blind/filled with hate as you Ron, enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #75 December 20, 2004 Quote There are plenty of people on here who do that. One prominent conservative poster can't bring himself to use Clinton's name and instead uses "El Jefe Clintonista." Ooooooohhh I'm a JACKASS I'm a sexy JACKASS I'm a JACKASS Sexy JACKASS I'm a JACKASS I'm a sexy JACKASS I'm a JACKASS Sexy JACKASS Merry Christmas to all, and tequila shooters tonite! Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
