JohnnyD 0
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Ron 10
QuoteThink about it Ron, I am a gun owner - why would I want to remove or change the 2nd Amendment. Does that really make any sense at all?
You say that, then you say this:
QuoteI am not sure what my opinion on CCW is, and it doesn't really matter since many states have it. I am, however, looking for solid proof to back up the claims people are making.
If you support the Second Amendment then you should support the right to carry since it is the right to "bear" arms.
If you don't support the right, or don't support the right in the most likely danger areas then you want to deny a right in the Constitution.
It is not the people who are given the right to defend it, it is the duty of those wanting to remove that right to prove whya right should be taken.
I really thought you would understand that.
It is the job of those that want to limit the rights given in the Constitution to prove why it is needed, not my job to defend the right.
The Constituiton gave us that right already.
I really wish you could see that.
And it is the people who want to remove the rights job to prove that CCW should not carry in bars.
I am still looking for them to provide that proof.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteHere is a long list of incidents involving CCW holders:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/...ncident&menu=gvr
That is impossible. Gun owners and especially those with a CCW are all law abiding citizens and never commit a crime. This is just one of those pinko liberal conspiracies.
Hey, I know - lets remove CCW bans from every location and let people carry guns in bars, airplanes, on skydives, etc. Limitations on where you can use your CCW is not a bad thing. Shotgun showed the list of CCW holders that have commited violents crimes - because of the idiots, some prudence is needed instead of a blanket "sure carry the gun anywhere" regulation.
btw - I'm for freedom of speech in all forms, but responsibility is needed with that freedom as well. You know the typical example of calling out 'fire' in a crowded room. Should there be a law against the word 'fire?' Of course not - but there are laws against being irresonsible with your words (ie libel)
btw - I'm for freedom of speech in all forms, but responsibility is needed with that freedom as well. You know the typical example of calling out 'fire' in a crowded room. Should there be a law against the word 'fire?' Of course not - but there are laws against being irresonsible with your words (ie libel)
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
Ron 10
QuoteShotgun showed the list of CCW holders that have commited violents crimes - because of the idiots, some prudence is needed instead of a blanket "sure carry the gun anywhere" regulation.
So, you justify the rmoval of a RIGHT given to us in the Bill of Rights becasue some jackasses are jackasses?
Then I guess we can remove womens right to vote since some of them are stupid...Oh and Blacks, oh and yours and mine since white guys have been known to do stuipid things.
That makes no sense.
You want to limit EVERYONES freedom based a few idiots.
Thats wrong and to be honest I am shocked that you feel that way. Normally the one thing I can count on is that you would defend the rights no matter what.
Except in this case.
I find that strange.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Do you feel that the laws about libel and slander trash your 1st Amendment rights? Yes or No.
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
QuoteI'm guessing if you skin it, there is going to be a price to pay, so you had better be damn sure its worth it.
That thought process that should go into IMPOSING restriction on the public. Not removing them.
Ron 10
QuoteDo you feel that the laws about libel and slander trash your 1st Amendment rights? Yes or No.
Not really. Of course there is volumes of legal books about this..So don't expect a quick easy answer.
I think they are kinda funny when some moron claims something that is so wrong, and several other dumbasses fall in line.
Of course you have to consider intent and the damage.
If the intent was to damage, and it was a lie...Then they should be held acountable.
How do you feel about the second? I mean do you agree that the Constutition gives Americans the right to keep and bear arms?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteDo you feel that the laws about libel and slander trash your 1st Amendment rights? Yes or No.
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Not really. Of course there is volumes of legal books about this..So don't expect a quick easy answer.
There are volumes of legal books when it comes to your opinion on something?
QuoteQuoteDo you feel that the laws about libel and slander trash your 1st Amendment rights? Yes or No.
Not really. Of course there is volumes of legal books about this..So don't expect a quick easy answer.
I think they are kinda funny when some moron claims something that is so wrong, and several other dumbasses fall in line.
Of course you have to consider intent and the damage.
If the intent was to damage, and it was a lie...Then they should be held acountable.
Which means that those laws are there to protect the citizens. They do not lessen the 1st Amendment Right. Freedom of Speech is still true in this country, even with the stumbling blocks we are having with it right now. Same thing with limitations on the CCW - they are there to protect the citizens. Nothing more, nothing less - not some left wing conspiracy to keep the gun holders unhappy.
Yes. Once again, plenty of written on this topic as well, but in the end, I feel that it does.QuoteHow do you feel about the second? I mean do you agree that the Constutition gives Americans the right to keep and bear arms?
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
This post is going to be dismissed right away as it doesnt contain any google-proof, just common sense.
When you get drunk, you do things that otherwise you wouldn´t do. I usually fall asleep or bore to death my friends by telling them the same story 20 times. Other people throw up, piss on themselves or will hit on anything that looks like a woman. And there is the ocasional guy who gets aggresive. Maybe it is a minority, maybe not, but they exist.
I think that when one of those assholes has had so much to drink that common sense has totally abondoned him, it would be dangerous if he has a gun. Remember that conflicts scalate and what could have been just a fist fight can turn in something much worse.
Now, i see the problem beetwen guns and alcohol, not beetwen bars and guns. The problem is that you can get alcohol in bars.
If anyone can think of any way to prevent people from drinking and carrying guns, i would say it is a good idea (I would ban guns altogether, but that is just my opinion from a country where guns are not that common). But I don´t see how you could do that withough vulnerating other basic rights.
Would you be okay if the bar made all the CCW holders identify at the door and wear a visible sticker so the waiter would not serve them any alcohol?
Would you be okay if you had to breathalise to prove that you have not been drinking before?
When you get drunk, you do things that otherwise you wouldn´t do. I usually fall asleep or bore to death my friends by telling them the same story 20 times. Other people throw up, piss on themselves or will hit on anything that looks like a woman. And there is the ocasional guy who gets aggresive. Maybe it is a minority, maybe not, but they exist.
I think that when one of those assholes has had so much to drink that common sense has totally abondoned him, it would be dangerous if he has a gun. Remember that conflicts scalate and what could have been just a fist fight can turn in something much worse.
Now, i see the problem beetwen guns and alcohol, not beetwen bars and guns. The problem is that you can get alcohol in bars.
If anyone can think of any way to prevent people from drinking and carrying guns, i would say it is a good idea (I would ban guns altogether, but that is just my opinion from a country where guns are not that common). But I don´t see how you could do that withough vulnerating other basic rights.
Would you be okay if the bar made all the CCW holders identify at the door and wear a visible sticker so the waiter would not serve them any alcohol?
Would you be okay if you had to breathalise to prove that you have not been drinking before?
QuoteQuoteDo you feel that the laws about libel and slander trash your 1st Amendment rights? Yes or No.
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Not really. Of course there is volumes of legal books about this..So don't expect a quick easy answer.
There are volumes of legal books when it comes to your opinion on something?
Yup, its called Speakers Corner
Damnit, don't make me laugh at work!
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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
JohnnyD 0
QuoteQuoteI'm guessing if you skin it, there is going to be a price to pay, so you had better be damn sure its worth it.
That thought process that should go into IMPOSING restriction on the public. Not removing them.
I get what you're saying, but the law is what it is. Apparently its been as such for a few years without incident (that I'm aware of). I guess my point was that if you skin it in any public place, something very bad is happening. The odds of something stupid happening in a bar full of drunks is exponentially higher. I'm not necessarily against it, but just glad that I am aware of it now and will plan accordingly.
Side note - I have never been in a more "shoot first and ask questions later" environment (civilian, that is) than Denver - and yes, I've been in Texas. I would want to be acutely aware of where the cops are if I had a gun out.
QuoteWould you be okay if the bar made all the CCW holders identify at the door and wear a visible sticker so the waiter would not serve them any alcohol?
How do you enforce this? Do you pass a law that they voluntarily have to identify themselves?
How would that be any different than passing a law that they voluntarily not drink while carrying?
Do you think one would be more effective than the other?
Right now the ban says you must not enter this establishment with a firearm. They rely on people to voluntarily abide by that rule.
So, none of these laws are talking about strip searching people whether it's when they go out in public, enter a bar, or order a drink. They all rely on people's adherance to the law.
Now....tell me, based on that premise, who would be in violation of the law.
If you pass the law that you can't drink while you carry, then anyone who drinks while they carry is a criminal. And that's what we're trying to prevent, right?
If you pass the law that you can't carry while in the bar, you're going to have criminalized those who are drinking and not drinking. Why? We all agree drinking and carrying is a potential problem. Seems to me that is where you set the legal line. What am I missing?
QuoteIt would probably take that many of us to be able to afford a studio. Why would you think I came from Cali anyhow?
Didnt mean to imply you're from Cali.........Californians are something that we have an overabundance of here as well as tamarisk,pine beetles,traffic and "the brown cloud",you could take a canadian or 2 with you for that matter but they would probably throw them back at usMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004
It would probably take that many of us to be able to afford a studio. Why would you think I came from Cali anyhow?
I can't say that I've heard of any incidents or even realized it was happening. That is both good and bad. I'm guessing if you skin it, there is going to be a price to pay, so you had better be damn sure its worth it.
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