rickjump1 0 #1 December 17, 2004 Has anyone used the Russian steel cased .45 ammo? Any problems? I have a Glock 36.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #2 December 17, 2004 QuoteHas anyone used the Russian steel cased .45 ammo? Any problems? I have a Glock 36. There are some very interesting technical problems with steel cases. The elastic modulus is so close to that of the breech that they jam more easily than, for example, brass.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #3 December 17, 2004 They cause broken extractors on some guns. If it is wolf brand I would keep it out of your expensive guns b/c of the mess although it is non-corrosive. My 2002 AK-103 eats the shit out of the 7.62 steel case wolf tho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #4 December 17, 2004 QuoteThey cause broken extractors on some guns. If it is wolf brand I would keep it out of your expensive guns b/c of the mess although it is non-corrosive. My 2002 AK-103 eats the shit out of the 7.62 steel case wolf tho. My friend shoots the wolf brand .45 and admits occasional problems. Being my gun is almost new, I'll take the advice. Thanks.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #5 December 17, 2004 Np everyone bitches about the laquer comming off on the chamber face and breach block, but if you dont leave a round in a warm/hot gun it is less of a problem. Have fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #6 December 18, 2004 I've used a number of different milled steel brands (and some with no brand name) in .38 to break in my little beauty. There was some discoloration on the breech, but nothing that didn't come off in the course of normal cleaning. However, I've heard the things you're hearing here, so I wonder if I'd use it in a pistol or rifle. I'd rather spring for the brass. If you really want to save money, reload your own. Otherwise, go with the bargain brand brass.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #7 December 18, 2004 QuoteI've used a number of different milled steel brands (and some with no brand name) in .38 to break in my little beauty. There was some discoloration on the breech, but nothing that didn't come off in the course of normal cleaning. However, I've heard the things you're hearing here, so I wonder if I'd use it in a pistol or rifle. I'd rather spring for the brass. If you really want to save money, reload your own. Otherwise, go with the bargain brand brass. I'm curious to know what the perceived problem with steel is in small arms? The work I did for the Navy was on large caliber guns.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #8 December 18, 2004 QuoteI've used a number of different milled steel brands (and some with no brand name) in .38 to break in my little beauty. There was some discoloration on the breech, but nothing that didn't come off in the course of normal cleaning. However, I've heard the things you're hearing here, so I wonder if I'd use it in a pistol or rifle. I'd rather spring for the brass. If you really want to save money, reload your own. Otherwise, go with the bargain brand brass. My friend still insists that shooting the steel cased .45 ammo does not hurt his gun. He shoots a lot. He did say he would not use it for self defense.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #9 December 18, 2004 QuoteI'm curious to know what the perceived problem with steel is in small arms? The work I did for the Navy was on large caliber guns. Same issues, by and large. 1 The steel often jams (reliability issue - in and of itself enough reason not to use it for serious applications). In so doing, 2 it often causes damage to extractors (j-hooks that grab the rim and pull the casing out of the chamber) 3 and ejectors (boots that kick the casing when it's pulled by the extractor). Also, the steel is often given a color coating, and 4 this can mar the surfaces of the chamber. spellingwitty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #10 December 18, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm curious to know what the perceived problem with steel is in small arms? The work I did for the Navy was on large caliber guns. Same issues, by and large. 1 The steel often jams (reliability issue - in and of itself enough reason not to use it for serious applications). In so doing, 2 it often causes damage to extractors (j-hooks that grab the rim and pull the casing out of the chamber) 3 and ejectors (boots that kick the casing when it's pulled by the extractor). Also, the steel is often given a color coating, and 4 this can mar the surfaces of the chamber. spelling Well, we didn't have coatings to consider. The issue with naval guns was that steel, with its high modulus, doesn't spring back like brass after being expanded by gas pressure in the breech. Hence all clearance is eliminated and you get a jam. The automatic loaders try to force another (live) shell into the breech, and BOOM, you eliminate a turret which basically takes out the ship.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 December 19, 2004 I've not used the Russian (Wolf) ammo, but have heard reports of the same sort of thing. Add to that the problems with the lacquer coming off the cases and making things "gummy" and you have double trouble. No Wolf for me, thanks!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 December 19, 2004 I'm guessing you're talking about Wolf ammo, huh? I haven't used their .223 but I have used their .45 ACP. The short answer is it sucks, it sucks BAD. I've never had that many jams in one box of ammo before. They were all ramp jams from the cases not being perfect (or even close to perfect). I got another box of ammo (federal or UMC, can't remember which now) and my weapon functioned with no problems. I'm not the only person that has had a lot of problems with Wolf either. Is it due to the steel cases or shitty manufacturing or both, I have no clue, but that brand SUCKS.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
screwball 0 #13 December 19, 2004 Wolf no long uses laqure. They use a poloymere coating now. It does not flake off or stick to the chamber. I have run alot of wolf ammo through my semi auto rifles and never had a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #14 December 19, 2004 QuoteWolf no long uses laqure. They use a poloymere coating now. It does not flake off or stick to the chamber. I have run alot of wolf ammo through my semi auto rifles and never had a problem. I saw that for .45 manufactured in 2004.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 December 19, 2004 QuoteThe issue with naval guns was that steel, with its high modulus, doesn't spring back like brass after being expanded by gas pressure in the breech. Hence all clearance is eliminated and you get a jam. The automatic loaders try to force another (live) shell into the breech, and BOOM, you eliminate a turret which basically takes out the ship. Note for other readers: the term "modulus" is a technical term which refers to elasticity, in this case, of the metal. It is also used in parachute components, for example to specify the amount of stretch in different types of suspension line. My experience is that steel cases jam more often, probably for the reason you cite. Ammo cases are made slightly smaller than the breech into which they fit. During firing, the case expands due to heat and pressure to fill the breech. After the bullet exits, relieving the pressure, the brass springs back downward in size a slight bit, allowing ease of extraction. Steel doesn't shrink back down as much as brass. Most of the steel case ammo I've seen is Russian - they're big on it. Is there a brass shortage in Russia? The general concensus by shooters is that steel case stuff may be okay for plinking, when an occasional jam doesn't matter much, but it should not be used for serious self defense, when you can afford a jam the least. One Russian rifle I have, an SVT-40, actually has a "fluted" chamber, which means that the breech has long-wise grooves in it. The idea was that this would allow easier extraction of steel cases, since there wouldn't be as much surface adhesion of the case to the breech wall. If the previous case fails to extract, the next cartridge in a self-loader should fail to feed, as it will jam into whatever remains of the previous case, and there is insufficient clearance for the new round to seat completely. Then you have to punch out the stuck case with a cleaning rod, or if the head (base) has been torn off, you have to use a special tool called a "broken case extractor" to pull out the front part of the stuck cartridge case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 December 20, 2004 Quote I have run alot of wolf ammo through my semi auto rifles and never had a problem. I think they changed for their .223 and such ammo, but its still fucked on their .45 ACP.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
