Dems had "Sweetheart" Segregation Deal

[Nightingale 0]

throwing more money at the problem can help, if done the right way. A big problem with schools in economically depressed areas is that they can't retain teachers. The new teachers start there, work for a year or two to get some experience, and then move on to a school in an area with more money. So, the schools in poorer areas get stuck with new teachers who haven't had the time to develop good classroom management techniques and general teaching strategies, because those things come with time. Raise the salaries of teachers in poorer areas, and you'll raise the quality of teachers at the school, because now, the teachers would have an incentive to stay. They have no incentive to stay now, so they don't.

Also, money should be used to make repairs to older buildings, to make sure every student has a textbook, and to make sure every teacher has a teacher's edition of that textbook and doesn't have to share with another teacher.

Money definitely won't fix everything, but it can fix some things, if applied correctly.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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throwing more money at the problem can help, if done the right way. A big problem with schools in economically depressed areas is that they can't retain teachers. The new teachers start there, work for a year or two to get some experience, and then move on to a school in an area with more money. So, the schools in poorer areas get stuck with new teachers who haven't had the time to develop good classroom management techniques and general teaching strategies, because those things come with time. Raise the salaries of teachers in poorer areas, and you'll raise the quality of teachers at the school, because now, the teachers would have an incentive to stay. They have no incentive to stay now, so they don't.

Also, money should be used to make repairs to older buildings, to make sure every student has a textbook, and to make sure every teacher has a teacher's edition of that textbook and doesn't have to share with another teacher.

Money definitely won't fix everything, but it can fix some things, if applied correctly.

Agreed. If anyone has ever spent time in an inner city school you would see that policy is not working, but money will help. Combine that with the passion of the teachers and it will work.

This sweetheart deal is disgusting. The funny thing is, he is trying to give a black eye on his way out about something that happened years ago while he is still to this day making racist comments.

Wendy - great analogy with the soccer field.

You have to wonder if those that are against AA are really concerned about the country allowing reverse racisms or if something else..... I don't know too many people that have lost a job or been passed over due to AA, do you??

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Gravitymaster 0]

Then perhaps someone can explain this:

***NEWS RELEASE

Five model small high schools in poverty-stricken rural areas and small towns in the South are beating the odds to outperform most other schools in their state. In a new report prepared for the Southern Governor's Association, Beating the Odds: High Performing High Schools in the South, the Rural School and Community Trust chronicles these exceptional small schools in the poorest regions of the rural South and the secrets behind the high quality education they provide.

Compared to others in their state, the identified high schools are smaller than median size; have higher than average poverty; made adequate yearly progress under the No Child Left Behind Act in all areas and for all subgroups; and scored above the state mean on all mandatory state tests. The Rural Trust conducted site visits to the five schools: • Central High School, Lowndes County, Alabama • Frederick Fraize High School, Cloverport, Kentucky • Sicily Island High School, Sicily Island, Louisiana • Shaw High School, Shaw, Mississippi • Phelps Jr/Sr High School, Phelps, Kentucky The report concludes that the schools are “structurally simple but organically complex.”

Only one school has adopted one of the nationally recognized and packaged school reform models, while the others have developed their own cohesive plans. Throughout the schools, there is a sense of mutual respect and shared expectations. Doing well is less about pedagogy, programs, and professionalism and more about how people treat each other—the human relationships are what make them successful.

The small size of the schools makes possible both those important, close relationships and the larger instructional practices that make them successful—team teaching, consensus building behind clear goals, integrated curriculum, cooperative learning, and performance assessments.

Staff and students view their smallness as a blessing, not a curse and think positively about the possibilities their small size affords them. Beating the Odds points out that success begins with leadership that is positive, flexible, creative, and collegial.

Teachers are empowered by principals to make important decisions and work together, and they are given planning time that reflects those values. Teachers serve in roles beyond instructors—they are also mentors, advisors, and counselors. Importantly, the good work done in these schools is not that of genius.

It is the hard work of caring and competent, but ordinary, people who achieve extraordinary ends because they work in an environment that not only expects the best of everyone, but brings out the best in everyone.

The report includes policy recommendations for states, among them:

1. Respect and support the advantages of smallness, recognizing the teachers and administrators in small schools play many roles and that high student-teacher ratios in particular are not a sign of inefficiency, but a sign that teachers are serving in multiple roles, some of which are reserved for specialists in larger schools.

2. Compensate for the fiscal disadvantages of smallness by providing a small school adjustment factor in the state aid formula.

3. Modernize facilities by providing access to capital funding that is not based on local wealth, is not biased in favor of large schools, and does not favor new construction over renovation and repair.

4. Improve the professional lives of teachers and administrators in hard-to-staff schools by providing mentors, improving professional development services, and providing more time for planning team teaching and other collaborative approaches.

5. Level the competition for highly qualified teachers by providing incentives, including higher pay, for teachers who teach in small, poor, remote areas. The report was prepared as part of a Southern Rural High School Study Initiative sponsored by the Southern Governor’s Association and funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Beating the Odds is available online at www.ruraledu.org.

[migliore 0]

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I don't know too many people that have lost a job or been passed over due to AA, do you??

Yes. My mom, a well-respected public school teacher for 25 years, was forced to leave her school and transfer to an inner-city school much further away from home because a first-year teacher applied and the school wasn't quite meeting its govt. mandated race quota.

Notice I haven't mentioned the race of either party, but even if my picture wasn't to the left of this text, I bet you could figure it out.

Unfortunately, the term racism has come to mean white people's intolerance of black people. Here's a true shocker...there are more than two races of people in the U.S., and bigoted behavior is not limited to just one group. There are jerks in any group...just look at the people in this forum.

I have a lot of respect for those who refuse to accept preferential treatment under AA. I, for one, do not believe any one race is superior to any other. Therefore, I do not think that the govt. should have lower standards for certain groups, because, in my mind, this is basically saying that some groups aren't capable of reaching the same level as others. I know I wouldn't want to hear that the govt. thinks I'm not smart enough to do well on a test so I only have to barely pass to get the job.

I understand that I am not a minority in the U.S. Please don't remind me.

Shane

[happythoughts 0]

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You have to wonder if those that are against AA are really concerned about the country allowing reverse racisms or if something else..... I don't know too many people that have lost a job or been passed over due to AA, do you??

A lot of men have, they just may not know it.

One widely used program is tax-credits for "training" women in management. Corporations receive tax benefits for putting women in management positions. The govt is effectively paying part of their salary.

Also, many companies will define a certain number of positions to be filled by women/minorities-only.

[diablopilot 2]

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You claim that institutional racism is disgusting and that we need affirmative action?

"I don't care who you are, that's funny right thar...."~Larry the Cable Guy

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Flarelatedad 0]

Who said..."How shall we turn the ghettos into a vast school? How shall we make every street corner a forum, not a lounging place for trivial gossip and petty gambling, where life is wasted and human experience withers in trivial sensations? How shall we make every house worker and every laborer a demonstrator, a voter, a canvasser and a student?"









MLK Jr in 1967. He directed his comments to parents letting htem know that the only way to improve their lives (and the lives of their children) was through knowledge. I believe this is the same thing that Bill Cosby is saying (and causing quite a stir in the Black community about).

How can the cycle be broken? Historically, an African American would "make-it", stay in the community and be a role model. This has more-or-less changed in the last generation. Now when someone "make's-it" they move out of the neighborhood to a better neighborhood to keep their family safe. This leads to a BIG lack of role-models for the next generation to pattern their lives after.

Again I ask the question how do we break the cycle?

[PhillyKev 0]

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Then perhaps someone can explain this:

That looks like a great plan. And has nothing to do with school vouchers. In fact...it looks like they threw money at the problem...and it worked.

1. Respect and support the advantages of smallness, recognizing the teachers and administrators in small schools play many roles and that high student-teacher ratios in particular are not a sign of inefficiency, but a sign that teachers are serving in multiple roles, some of which are reserved for specialists in larger schools.

2. Compensate for the fiscal disadvantages of smallness by providing a small school adjustment factor in the state aid formula.

3. Modernize facilities by providing access to capital funding that is not based on local wealth, is not biased in favor of large schools, and does not favor new construction over renovation and repair.

4. Improve the professional lives of teachers and administrators in hard-to-staff schools by providing mentors, improving professional development services, and providing more time for planning team teaching and other collaborative approaches.

5. Level the competition for highly qualified teachers by providing incentives, including higher pay, for teachers who teach in small, poor, remote areas. The report was prepared as part of a Southern Rural High School Study Initiative sponsored by the Southern Governor’s Association and funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

[Ron 10]

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I don't know too many people that have lost a job or been passed over due to AA, do you??

Yes.

We had a managers position open. We had these 3 applicants

1. A white male that was acting as the manager. He was a fully trained lead qualified in every aspect of the operation. No degree.

2. A white male that had a degree and was trained in some aspects of the operation.

3. A black female that had no aircraft experience.

Most of us knew the 1st canidate was a shoe in...I mean he was qualified, already doing the job, and his back ground was good.

Some thought that the 2nd person would get it since the company likes people to have degrees.

One person said that #3 was getting it, and we all thought he was crazy.

#3 showed up the next week and was introduced to us as the new manager.

I asked the Sr what the hell and he closed his door and told me he had to hire her so the area would make both its female and black %.

She lasted about 2 mths. Her replacement? A black female with a degree but no experience....She lasted 7 mths before she was transfered.

Now I worked with both white and black managers that were fantastic....I refer to them as great managers, not great (insert color) managers, and managers of both genders that rocked.

But I have seen several cases of it in my company in the last 13 years.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jdhill 0]

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And has nothing to do with school vouchers

It also does not appear to have anything to do with race based quotas...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Gravitymaster 0]

Here's the rest of the story.

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NEW REPORT CALLS ARKANSAS CONSOLIDATION DEBATE "WASTEFUL"
"Get to the Things That Matter," Urges Rural School Advocacy Group

Washington, DC -- Small school districts in Arkansas accomplish more with less money in more difficult circumstances than do large districts, according to a new report released today by the Rural School and Community Trust (Rural Trust), a nonprofit advocacy group for rural schools. The report found that small districts have a higher proportion of students in poverty and a much smaller property tax base, and spend less per student than large districts. Despite their high poverty and low wealth, however, these small districts have a smaller percentage of students who score below the basic achievement level on the state's academic tests and they graduate a higher percentage of students than do the large districts.

The report's conclusion: Arkansas is wasting time on the consolidation debate, and should focus instead on the problems that matter most to the state's schoolchildren: poverty, the persistent effects of racial discrimination, and a school funding system whose inequities and inadequacies exacerbate those problems.

The report, School District Consolidation in Arkansas, analyzes financial and academic data of all Arkansas districts and evaluates approaches to consolidation based on district size, high per-pupil spending, and below-average academic performance. "Whichever way you look at it, consolidation is a bad idea for Arkansas," says Marty Strange, policy program director for the Rural Trust. "Consolidation based on academic performance will disproportionately affect poor and African American communities, especially in the Delta region. These are precisely the communities that scientific research shows get the best academic performance from small schools."

"The shortest and best pathway to school improvement in Arkansas is to improve small schools operating in small districts in the poorest communities in the state," says Strange. "The biggest challenge is to get past the debate over school consolidation and get to the things that matter."

Many of study's key findings contradict current assumptions about consolidation. Among those findings:

Nearly two-thirds of small districts spend less per student than the state average.
Large districts are more likely than small districts to be academically low performing.
Both small and large districts that spend above the state average per pupil serve a student population that is more at risk of academic failure than do other districts.
More students -- both in number and proportion -- attend large districts that either spend above the state average or perform academically below the state average than attend small districts that are high spending or low performing.
These results are essentially the same whether a "small" district is defined as one with fewer than 1,500 students or one with fewer than 700 students.

Pretty much dispells the myth that more money means better education. I believe that a poor education has more to do with ones's motivation and desire to succeed with the support of the family and community. And the school districts that have low scoring students have the problem because of a parental problem such as single heads of households, peer pressure to use drugs, and role models that promote fast tracks to success.

[PhillyKev 0]

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I believe that a poor education has more to do with ones's motivation and desire to succeed with the support of the family and community.

Very true...and poorly spending more money is not the answer. It has to be spent in the right ways. As far as motivation is concerned, I also agree with the article that the biggest contributing factors are...

"poverty, the persistent effects of racial discrimination, and a school funding system whose inequities and inadequacies exacerbate those problems. "

Once again, this has nothing to do with school vouchers.

[PhreeZone 20]

I think part of the answer is found in the small school size issue. If you are in a classroom of 15 students the teachers are able to spend more time and attention on all the students to make sure they all succeed. In a classroom of 30-35 students the teacher just does not have the ability to make sure all the students understand the material and succeed. If they spend their time on the lower 20% the other portion of the class will never move ahead.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I think part of the answer is found in the small school size issue. If you are in a classroom of 15 students the teachers are able to spend more time and attention on all the students to make sure they all succeed. In a classroom of 30-35 students the teacher just does not have the ability to make sure all the students understand the material and succeed. If they spend their time on the lower 20% the other portion of the class will never move ahead.

Agreed. This is exactly why school vouchers are a good idea. They will allow parents to send their children to a smaller, private school where they will recieve more individual attention, learn in an atmosphere more conducive to education, and the child and the parent will be held more accountable for poor academic performance.

[PhillyKev 0]

Correct your statement to read "will allow THOSE PARENTS THAT CAN AFFORD THE ADDITIONAL TUITION to send their children..."

School vouchers will NOT pay the full tuition costs for private schools. Those left behind will be in worse shape than before.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Correct your statement to read "will allow THOSE PARENTS THAT CAN AFFORD THE ADDITIONAL TUITION to send their children..."

School vouchers will NOT pay the full tuition costs for private schools. Those left behind will be in worse shape than before.

I agree that there will be parents who cannot afford the total tuition, but I'm sure some type of subsidy can be worked out for those students who show a willingness to learn. Perhaps some type of scholarship or govt. loan program. My point is that at some point we need to start admitting that the educational system in this country is in a pathetic condition and that continuing to try to fix it is like trying to fix a 20 year old car with 190,000 miles on it. At some point you just have to realize it isn't worth fixing any more. In addition, poorly educated children continue the cycle of poverty which, I believe fosters racism and crime.

[PhillyKev 0]

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sure some type of subsidy can be worked out for those students who show a willingness to learn

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In addition, poorly educated children continue the cycle of poverty which, I believe fosters racism and crime.

These statements are contradictory. Why should the onus be on small children with shitty parents to prove that they are worthy of a good education?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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sure some type of subsidy can be worked out for those students who show a willingness to learn

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In addition, poorly educated children continue the cycle of poverty which, I believe fosters racism and crime.

These statements are contradictory. Why should the onus be on small children with shitty parents to prove that they are worthy of a good education?

I said they need to show a willingness to learn. Why shouldn't a motivated students with shitty parents be given a better opportunity to get a better education? It may not be fair to the children who are likely to do poorly regardless of their educational opportunity, but you have to start somewhere, one student at a time. Sometimes lifes just not fair.

[masterrig 1]

The idea of small classes of 15-students, sounds good. Let me ask this... where do you get all the extra teachers it will take to help accomplish this idea? School districts all over this country are in need of more teachers. That's one reason we have larger classrooms. Also, the idea of 15-students per classroom would mean a need for more classrooms. How would this be done in poorer areas of this country? This would also mean an increase in school taxes. I don't know how they did it, but, in the school I went to, there were approx. 60 kids in a classroom. The kids that were having a hard time, somehow or another got that 'extra' attention' and learned and passed as well as the rest of the class.

[masterrig 1]

You make a good point... parents! Seems as though, parents today are more wrapped-up in themselves and careers who don't have or take the time with their kids. Also, the increased number of single parents, today. Single parents who may have to hold-down two or more jobs, just to make ends meet. It seems to trickle-down to the schools and teachers to pick-up the slack. It's 'their' responsibility to teach kids. The teachers need a little help from the parents, also. It's a two-way street. In a lot of cases, frustrating on both ends. Also, kids in parts of this country see the 'haves' and they stand there, the 'have-nots'. They look to drugs or pro-sports to get them out of their 'situation'. It's all, a big problem that needs a lot of work on a lot of sides.

[Gravitymaster 0]

The articles I posted make the point that the schools producing the better educated students are doing so with less money in poverty stricken areas of the State, while cities like Washington D.C. spend more dollars per student than any other school district in the country with poorer results. This is a great example of why more money spent on education actually produces poorer education. Anybody want to venture to guess as to how poor rural area of Alabama are doing better than highly funded DC?

[kallend 2,148]

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The articles I posted make the point that the schools producing the better educated students are doing so with less money in poverty stricken areas of the State, while cities like Washington D.C. spend more dollars per student than any other school district in the country with poorer results. This is a great example of why more money spent on education actually produces poorer education. Anybody want to venture to guess as to how poor rural area of Alabama are doing better than highly funded DC?

Cut all education funding then, and we'll produce super smart kids in no time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

I think you're missing the point of the articles. The point was that the programs they enacted produced better educated students DESPITE using less money to do it. That means, yes, it can be done. It does not indicate that school vouchers or cutting funding would enact those changes.

Yes, reform is needed. No, cutting funding and school vouchers are not the reform that is needed.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I think you're missing the point of the articles. The point was that the programs they enacted produced better educated students DESPITE using less money to do it. That means, yes, it can be done. It does not indicate that school vouchers or cutting funding would enact those changes.

Yes, reform is needed. No, cutting funding and school vouchers are not the reform that is needed.

I didn't miss that point at all. My point is that just throwing money at a problem isn't going to solve it. I believe the incompetence that has developed in our govt. run schools has become institutionalized and is hopeless. This school district has found a way to acheive success despite it's low financial resources and should be used as a model for others that have become bloated an ineffective. Comparing the amount spent per student to that of D.C is quite an eye opener and only reinforces in my mind that the entire educational system is this country is hopelessly broken and we need to evolve to smaller more efficient academic modules. To me the problem is the money schools are given isn't spent in the most effecient manner. I think that public schools, for far too long, have found it convenient to scream they lack enough money, whenever their results are challenged. I'd like to see what would happen if a school superintendent and school board were given a blank check and a time frame to produce an acceptable academic goal. Think they would get good results?

[TheAnvil 0]

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I don't know too many people that have lost a job or been passed over due to AA, do you??

I know several. AA is racial discrimination. No ifs. No ands. No buts. AA is racial discrimination. Period. It is disgusting and should be abolished.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
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