The Texecutioner

[Ron 10]

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Are you serious? Evidence wasn't presented, just an opinion statement by a former president in 1915

Lets see, you use a website that could have been created by a 12 year old that uses cool words like "Texecutioner" as proof, but dismiss a speach by a President about a topic.

Like I said, your critical thinking skills need work.

I see no need to continue this since you would rather put more credit on a kids website than a former President.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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So you have no evidence to show that it's cost-effective or a deterrent then.

There is this to show it is a deterrent:

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The highest murder rate in Houston (Harris County), Texas occurred in 1981, with 701 murders. Texas resumed executions in 1982. Since that time, Houston (Harris County) has executed more murderers than any other city or state (except Texas) AND has seen the greatest reduction in murder, 701 in 1981 down to 261 in 1996 - a 63% reduction, representing a 270% differential! (FBI, UCR, 1982 & Houston Chronicle, 2/1/97, pg. 31A).

That seems to show it works.

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Can you name a SINGLE nation that abolished the death penalty and then decided they made an error, and reinstated it?

The US?
The death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976

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Furman invalidates most
death penalty laws
Legal challenges to the death penalty culminated in a 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court decision Furman v. Georgia, 408 U.S. 153 (1972), which struck down federal and state capital punishment laws permitting wide discretion in the application of the death penalty. Characterizing these laws as "arbitrary and capricious," the majority ruled that they constituted cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the due process guarantees of the Fourteenth Amendment.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[EBSB52 0]

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Are you serious? Evidence wasn't presented, just an opinion statement by a former president in 1915

Lets see, you use a website that could have been created by a 12 year old that uses cool words like "Texecutioner" as proof, but dismiss a speach by a President about a topic.

Like I said, your critical thinking skills need work.

I see no need to continue this since you would rather put more credit on a kids website than a former President.

I never stated or inferred that the site was proof, just thought the term, "Texecutioner" was appropriate.

Please, show me where I called any of it proof. There are items on there that are factual, but if you recall, I just posted the site address.

As for the speech by Teddy Roosevelt, I dismissed as not being pertinent to another topic about using hyphens in your name, such as, "African-American" or, "Japanese-American." In the article, Teddy Roosevelt stated that it was bad for national unity. If you read my other explanations as to why I think the article has no relevance in the "hyphen" thread you would have discovered the reason is that the time/era (1915) was filled with all kinds of racism and sexism, so a person's opinion of that era, in that era probably won't be contemporarily equittable to today's standards.

Do you think it's reasonable to consider a slave owner's position by today's standards? Maybe that slave owner, let's take President Jefferson, had a position that was applicable by his era's standards. Maybe he was a great man for his era, but by today's standards his ideologies would be considered trash. In that era owning slaves was ok, women were chattle that could be beat (read about Rule of Thumb - I can cite if you wish), and only property owners could vote. In 1915 slave owning was illegalized, but women could not vote, we were 40+ years away from blacks and whites sharing restrooms; do you think we can take any person's opinion from that era and apply it to today's standards of acceptable race relations?

I don't expect an answer.

Hey, the Texecutioner website is just plain funny as far as the play on words, very sad with the message of people being executed at record rates and w/o what I feel is appropriate due process. I didn't endorse it or say it is now my homepage and Bible for living - I just posted it without comment.

Like I said, your critical thinking skills need work.

Where are the personal attack police when you need them?

[kallend 2,185]

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So you have no evidence to show that it's cost-effective or a deterrent then.

There is this to show it is a deterrent:

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The highest murder rate in Houston (Harris County), Texas occurred in 1981, with 701 murders. Texas resumed executions in 1982. Since that time, Houston (Harris County) has executed more murderers than any other city or state (except Texas) AND has seen the greatest reduction in murder, 701 in 1981 down to 261 in 1996 - a 63% reduction, representing a 270% differential! (FBI, UCR, 1982 & Houston Chronicle, 2/1/97, pg. 31A).

That seems to show it works.

Chicago, with a population greater than Houston's (therefore more statistcally significant) has seen a 50% drop in murder rate since Governor Ryan put a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois.

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Can you name a SINGLE nation that abolished the death penalty and then decided they made an error, and reinstated it?

The US?
The death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976

It was not abolished. Existing statutes were declared unconstitutional and the states had to revise them. Abolition requires an act of the legislatures, not the judiciary.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

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Chicago, with a population greater than Houston's (therefore more statistcally significant) has seen a 50% drop in murder rate since Governor Ryan put a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois.

How does that prove causality? It could just as easily be that way due to increased preventative law enforcement...

Having grown up in Chicago, I came to a blunt conclusion: let the gangbangers and crackheads kill each other. It's cheaper than rehab or incarceration. Just keep them the hell out of my neighborhood.

[EBSB52 0]

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Chicago, with a population greater than Houston's (therefore more statistcally significant) has seen a 50% drop in murder rate since Governor Ryan put a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois.

How does that prove causality? It could just as easily be that way due to increased preventative law enforcement...

Having grown up in Chicago, I came to a blunt conclusion: let the gangbangers and crackheads kill each other. It's cheaper than rehab or incarceration. Just keep them the hell out of my neighborhood.

I think that's Kallend's point; CP has no affect on deterrence either way. I don't think potential 1st degree murderers refrain from killing in the presence of CP, and I don't think they increase their killing in the light of the revocation (temp or perm) of CP. I think all stats are incidental and I think that's what Kallend was saying, not to speak for him.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

...So this is the Anti-CP crowd trying for moral superiority versus the pro-CP crowd's drive for Punishment/Bloodlust?

[kallend 2,185]

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Chicago, with a population greater than Houston's (therefore more statistcally significant) has seen a 50% drop in murder rate since Governor Ryan put a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois.

How does that prove causality? It could just as easily be that way due to increased preventative law enforcement...

It doesn't - any more than Ron's data about Houston or John Lott's data about concealed carry laws proves anything. If an 8% decline in murders after CCW is passed is taken as proof that gun ownership reduces crime, why not apply the same logic to the death penalty and Chicago's 50% decline in murder rate?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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63% is bigger than your 50 %, and since Chicago is bigger, you would think you should have the bigger number

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,185]

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63% is bigger than your 50 %, and since Chicago is bigger, you would think you should have the bigger number

Jeez - Ron, you're using Math. That invalidates your opinion right there.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Jeez - Ron, you're using Math. That invalidates your opinion right there.

Plus, since he has never murdered anybody, plus he has never been murdered himself, he really has no right to talk about any of this anyways.

[Ron 10]

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Plus, since he has never murdered anybody

You know that for a fact?

They can't prove it either.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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You know that for a fact?

They can't prove it either.

Not convicted anyways, so I know for a fact you are not a murderer, maybe a killer