Gun Accidents

[AggieDave 6]

The point is, people will have enough security in their life to reach their comfort level...or lack of security. Its a very personal matter. That's also why its a basic right in this country to have and keep firearms.

Although I have a higher level of security then someone like Andy, that doesnt' mean that I'm wrong or he's wrong, we're just different and that's fine.

My "security setup" is laughable compared to some folks I've met throughout my life. We're including a guy I knew with a hidden safe room, filtered water/air, the works, nevermind the small arsenal inside the room. Why did he have it? Terrorists (this was pre 9/11, I wonder what he has now), he knew that they would start attacking the US at some point. Do I think he lives in fear? Not necissarily, he simply lives very very prepared. He thought how I lived was incredibly unsafe and that I should upgrade my security. I simply didn't have any desire to. I've prepared to defend against the most likely scenerio for my area and that's that.

Andy (and others on DZ.com) have no desire to take those steps. Even though I would be fearful living in state of readiness (or lack there of), they're not, so its good for them.

The people in the other countries...well, I don't really give a fuck what they think about my personal life, just like I don't care about their personal life. I care what their country is doing as a whole, though.

That's why snide comments towards either side of the "issue" are uncalled for. Firstly, its your legal right to live on either side of the fence or stradle it for that matter. Secondly, none of the rude comments are going to convience anyone to change. Just as unlike is it for me to sleep with my house unlocked and sell my weapons, its just as unlikely for Kallend to admit that people have lived decent lives and have had to defend themselves with some sort of weapon instead of their mind...just as unlikely for Andy to run out and buy a shotgun (and get proper training) to defend his unlocked home.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

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then again we don't live in Texas.

Ha!

Ok. So I guess everyone in the state of Texas locks down when the sun sets, huh?

Well we have to, so to protect against the ghosts of Santa Anna's army...



See, this is the childish comments I was just talking about in a different post, making rude comments about someone's life, beliefs, where they live or their person. But I guess as a rule, childish comments come out of the wood work on the internet, people feel so impowered when they're typing away.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[masterrig 1]

Hear, hear, Dave! Well said!!!

Chuck

[rehmwa 2]

Bah! without the childish comments and petty semantic arguments, this forum would wither and die and become a Bonfire-like pile of inane tripe and popularity contests.

Then what would do during your lunch hour? EAT?

I much prefer the SC pile of confrontative inane tripe and anti-popularity contests.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AggieDave 6]

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anti-popularity contests.

Nice, I like that phrase...must remember.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[craddock 0]

Now I really don't understand you Dave.

You started the childish comments with

"have fun in your own little fantisy world"

Followed in the next post by "go back into your little fantisy world"

but I am the childish one?

Can some one else please advise me as to what I can and can not say on here, as to not insult anyone.

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See, this is the childish comments I was just talking about in a different post, making rude comments about someone's life, beliefs, where they live or their person.

Huh?? Boy you read WAY to much into shit. Some might call that paraniod.

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But I guess as a rule, childish comments come out of the wood work on the internet, people feel so impowered when they're typing away

.

Yes Dave, I am starting to understand now

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[AggieDave 6]

Sarcasm. You get sarcasm right?

No go re-read and think sarcasm. You'll get it, I'm sure.

And those who know me would tell you, I'm no different online then I am in person. (that's not sarcasm, so to help you out).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rehmwa 2]

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anti-popularity contests.

Nice, I like that phrase...must remember.

I like these people, I just don't get to say "Bah" much nor fit tripe and/or trope into any conversations lately

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[craichead 0]

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Good luck to you, living with your blinders on. I wonder if your lack of concern with defense will change if yall ever get pregnant.

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...just as unlikely for Andy to run out and buy a shotgun (and get proper training) to defend his unlocked home.

Well, since it's so unlikely that Andy is going to run out and buy a shotgun if we get pregnant, you can give us a shotgun for a Baby Shower present when we decide to have kids.

He said he'll use it for target practice. Hmm, I wonder if he meant the kid...cos the last time he used a shotgun, a (OMG, they killed) Kenny doll was used for target practice!

_Pm

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"Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC)

[AggieDave 6]

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a (OMG, they killed) Kenny doll was used for target practice!

That's funny.

I was trying to talk Morgan into getting me one of those 5' tall santa animatronic things at the store yesterday for shotgun practice...she gave me her "voice" (you know, the voice women use with men and children to tell them no) and told me no.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jcd11235 0]

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Sarcasm. You get sarcasm right?

I am not judging, but it is often difficult to see sarcasm in print. We have to remember that we tend to type in monotone, so the tone of voice we are thinking in does not always transfer to the printed medium well.

Just my $.02

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[masterrig 1]

Good way of venting our pent-up anger and agressions. Can't we all, just get along?

Chuck

[JohnRich 4]

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Now if one of my students goes postal over a grade and bursts into my office with a gun...

But, but... you said you use your brain to keep yourself out of situations where you might be in danger. Are you now admitting that your work environment isn't guaranteed to be safe?

The fact is, you have no control over what nuts do to whom, or where. Your brain doesn't guarantee your safety, anywhere.

I hope that some day some thug doesn't come along and burst your little bubble of imagined security.

[JohnRich 4]

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Guns are simple to use: point and pull the trigger. A BASE jump out a building window is far more complicated to accomplish successfully.
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Nonsens. For a beginner, it is extremely hard to use a gun, even hand gun of every kind...

A revolver only has two controls: the safety, and the trigger. It's pretty easy to figure those out, and use them properly. It's not much different from operating a spray nozzle on a garden hose. And most kids grow up playing with similar items, like cap guns and BB guns, and have watched hundreds of hours of gun usage on TV. It's not a big deal to learn how to use a real handgun.

[Kennedy 0]

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Nonsens. For a beginner, it is extremely hard to use a gun, even hand gun of every kind...

A revolver only has two controls: the safety, and the trigger. It's pretty easy to figure those out, and use them properly. It's not much different from operating a spray nozzle on a garden hose. And most kids grow up playing with similar items, like cap guns and BB guns, and have watched hundreds of hours of gun usage on TV. It's not a big deal to learn how to use a real handgun.

Didn't I just see a Times article comdemning handguns because they are too easy for kids to hold and use? Gun banners really need to get on the same page.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[JohnRich 4]

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I've needed my seatbelt a few times... Odds of life insurance coming in handy is also 1.0... I've had 3 kitchen fires in my life... whereas: Odds of you requiring a gun in your home for self defence are next to zero.

Well, if you base the right to own a gun based upon "odds", then I deserve one already. There has been once in my life where I needed one really badly, and didn't have one handy (18 people were subsequently shot because I was helpless to stop the madman), and there have been several other times where I've had my gun in my hand because usage seemed imminent, such as when someone smashed out my patio door on an apartment with a rock.

I've had zero kitchen fires in my life. Should I get rid of my fire extinguisher? After all, since I'm not aflicted with fires, I shouldn't need one ever in the future either. Right?

But that's all beside the point anyway. If a free society, responsible people should be allowed to choose to own a gun if they want one. I don't want a society where some government bureaucrat decides for me what my odds are of needing something, and determining for me whether or not I can have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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Normal people who need to defend themselves with guns either a: look for the opportunity b: have very bad luck, or c: need to re-adjust their lifestyle. This country just isn't that dangerous.

Bad luck *does* exist, and people shouldn't have to be rendered helpless if bad luck comes to visit them.

Stories of armed self defense:

The NRA's "Armed Citizen" files:
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx

The KABR's "Operation Self Defense" files:
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/

Please read a few of those stories, and see if you can find some where the intended victim was either "asking for it", or was "leading a bad lifestyle". Report back with your findings.

Your view on this is insulting to everyone who has ever had the misfortune to be a victim of crime.

[JohnRich 4]

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I don't know about Bill but you got me about conviced to stay the Hell out of Texas.

If a story about one attempted ATM robbery is enough to scare you out of an entire state, then you shouldn't feel safe anywhere in America.

You better see if you can move to Mel Gibson's private Pacific island.

[JohnRich 4]

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When we got up this morning she was nagging me about when we'll get to go to the range and try out the new shotgun.

In most women, nagging is a horrible thing. But in your case, I think you're on to something good...

[AndyMan 7]

You either have a very poor understanding of probability, or you didn't understand me.

The fact that you found yourself in a sitution where you think you needed one does not change the odds. Likewise, the fact that you haven't had a kitchen fire does not change those odds, either.

The odds are still pretty high of having a kitchen fire because they're quite common, and the odds of needing a gun are still low because violent crime is really quite low by any standard.

Your personal experience is irrelevant to probabilities, unless your lifestyle choices affect those odds in any particular manner. Again, if its the case that your lifestyle makes gun violence a particularly relistic event, I'd recomend changing your lifestyle.


_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[JohnRich 4]

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Didn't I just see a Times article comdemning handguns because they are too easy for kids to hold and use? Gun banners really need to get on the same page.

Hah! Yes, they say that handguns are easy enough for 5-year-olds to shoot, and at the same time, too complicated for adults to handle properly. I wish they would make up their mind.

Go figure.

[christelsabine 1]

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Guns are simple to use: point and pull the trigger. A BASE jump out a building window is far more complicated to accomplish successfully.
______________________________________________________

Nonsens. For a beginner, it is extremely hard to use a gun, even hand gun of every kind...

A revolver only has two controls: the safety, and the trigger. It's pretty easy to figure those out, and use them properly. It's not much different from operating a spray nozzle on a garden hose. And most kids grow up playing with similar items, like cap guns and BB guns, and have watched hundreds of hours of gun usage on TV. It's not a big deal to learn how to use a real handgun.

I did not express clear enough and should have mentioned more detailed if it's rifle or hand gun. Sure, using a revolver is a bit easier for beginners. But aiming and shooting into the centre even with a revolver or pistol needs more skills.

Proper use of a rifle means much more training.

Always, several weeks before hunting season opens, we go for training to our range. During hunting, I do not like to kill my fellow hunter/neighbour standing 100 m left or right from me, only because of poor shooting skills. (That's normal here and usual procedere, means: not reflecting my skills, if perhaps you had doubts on that)

A hectic, uncontrolled handling and using (of) a weapon - f.e. during night, waking up from sleep b/c of a strange noise in the house - could be deadly for the loved ones of the gun owner w/o proper training.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnRich 4]

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the odds of needing a gun are still low because violent crime is really quite low

A government study:

U.S. Department of Justice
April 1994, NCJ-147486

During the last 20 years, victims have described more than 119 million violent victimizations of rape, robbery, or assault in interviews for the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).

How much violent crime is there in the United States?

* In 1992, there were 6.6 million violent victimizations, including
141,000 rapes, 1.2 million robberies, and 5.3 million assaults.

* 4.9 million households, or 5% of all households, had a member
victimized by violence during 1992.

* Americans have a greater chance of being a violent crime victim than of being injured in a motor vehicle accident.

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In the United States in 2000...

- A murder is committed every 32 minutes.
- A forcible rape is committed every 5 minutes.
- A robbery is committed every 1 minute.
- A aggravated assault is committed every 35 seconds.
- A violent crime is committed every 22 seconds.

(FBI, Uniform Crime Report)

In the time it took you to read this message, someone has had their life changed forever by a violent crime.

Have a nice day. :-)

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Yes, your odds of being a victim in any given year are low. But it happens to a lot of people, nonetheless. Those who wish to prepare to defend themselves, should not be prevented from doing so.

[AndyMan 7]

So what? There will always be exceptions, and generally we don't codify rules to the exception.

The idea that people need firearms to protect themselves is a myth.

For the most part, people who "need" firearms only do so because it makes them feel "safer" - even though their safety was never really at issue. I struggle to understand how somebody so obsessed with safety could bear to drive to the DZ, never mind jump from an airplane...

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[JohnRich 4]

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The idea that people need firearms to protect themselves is a myth.

It's time for some real-life stories.

Please tell me what is "mythical" about these people, who were minding their own business in their own homes, and who had to use their guns in lawful self-defense:

1) around 8:30 Wednesday night two armed robbers busted into the side door of a home on Best Street in Buffalo's east side. The homeowner, a man in his 40s, was eating dinner at his kitchen table, according to relatives. Turns out he also had a gun and fired at the two men. Police say he struck at least one of them. The robbers ran out of the house
Source

2) Leonard Gamage, 87, was watching television at his home, when someone came to his front door. Gamage did not recognize the young man. When he went to open the door, he said the man grabbed the screen door and forced himself inside the house.
"I asked him what he wanted and told him to get out," Gamage said. The intruder allegedly refused to leave. "We started to scuffle right there in the kitchen," Gamage recalled. Gamage said he remembered having a pair of rifles in a gun rack inside the house.
"I was finally able to get my hands on one of the guns... I shot him in the left foot. It hit him in the arch and he screamed and started jumping around like a chicken with his head cut off."
Source

3) A stranger, 6 feet 2 inches tall and 330 pounds, shows up at your house in the darkness of 1:30 in the morning. He pounds on your door, forces his way inside and then refuses to leave. He is screaming and yelling incoherently. You yell, "Go away, please leave," but he keeps coming. You flee to your bedroom where you keep your gun. The man keeps coming, breaking down your bedroom door. Six-foot-2, 330 pounds. Screaming incoherently.
Four times you yell back, "Stop or I will shoot." The stranger doesn’t listen. Then you fire your weapon.
Source

So, your philosophy seems to be that these people are living a poor lifestyle, eh?