The old "all Generals and anyone who has anything to do with the Bush Administration are nothing but a bunch of liars who will say and do anything to cover their ass and that of their boss".
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The generals are not political appointee's so please don't play the politic's card, their career professional soliders.
After a election their bosses might change but they still have a job.
I haven't done any math on armor, I don't know where you got that idea.
From this post:
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Very good. You forget that I'm a materials engineer as well as a physicist (multitasking).
I've worked for the US Army on armor development and testing, for the US Navy and DoE on armor piercing projectiles (both HEAT and penetrator), and I was a consultant for the Secret Service on armor plating for limos (guess who's). Any questions?
How did you do all that with out math? You are not know for your demolition skills, and I didn't see you list Special Forces Weapons specalist in that post?
I could of course be wrong...I did assume that a Physics prof. And Materials Eng...Used math.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Well, they could have saved enough to buy all the Humvee armor needed for the next 100 years if they'd canceled the so-called missile shield that doesn't work and won't work.
Making armor is not exactly the Manhattan Project in scope and complexity
Maybe you didn't read the post you replied to:
Quote
1. You don't know what the war will be like, and by the time you figure it out...It will have changed.
2. NO ONE (Democrat or Republican) is willing to spend what it would take to bubble wrap our troops in armor during a time of peace. And you can never get it out fast enough once you need it.
The missle shield won't work huh? I know folks who thought that you could never split an atom, Man cannot fly, others thought the earth was flat, and still others thought the Earth was the center of the universe.
Could you be wrong?
How do you know if you don't test things and try things?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Anything the General says is suspect because if asked he's by Rummy how his new suit looks he's not going to tell Rummy (the king) that he's not wearing any cloth's. Not a smart move for career advancement.
Having worked directly for General Whitcomb, I can tell you that he is not a smoke blower... If Rummy asked him how his new suit looked, and he was naked, Whitcomb would tell him he was soup
sandwich...
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Hmm I've been in meetings with generals where they had a bird colonel carry their eveglasses and briefcases for them.
Before the meetings started the Colonel would survey the room and place the generals eyeglasses in fromt of a strategic seat and the brief case on the chair.
You may have worked with the General but unless you had a slot on the signature ladder of his coresspondence or was present during his meetings with his bosses (possiable) maybe there a difference between what he said he said and what really happened.
Well, they could have saved enough to buy all the Humvee armor needed for the next 100 years if they'd canceled the so-called missile shield that doesn't work and won't work.
Off topic here but did you see that making contact with the incoming projectile is NOT an objective in the testing happening in Alaska?
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
I haven't done any math on armor, I don't know where you got that idea.
From this post:
Quote
Very good. You forget that I'm a materials engineer as well as a physicist (multitasking).
I've worked for the US Army on armor development and testing, for the US Navy and DoE on armor piercing projectiles (both HEAT and penetrator), and I was a consultant for the Secret Service on armor plating for limos (guess who's). Any questions?
How did you do all that with out math? You are not know for your demolition skills, and I didn't see you list Special Forces Weapons specalist in that post?
I could of course be wrong...I did assume that a Physics prof. And Materials Eng...Used math.
Ass-uming is very dangerous. We developed manufacturing processes that produced the best properties, measured ballistic limits, did lots of empirical tests and very little math beyond what was needed to analyze the results.
I actually know a lot about processes for making and testing armor and armor penetrators.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
You may have worked with the General but unless you had a slot on the signature ladder of his coresspondence or was present during his meetings with his bosses (possiable) maybe there a difference between what he said he said and what really happened.
I was a direct report for more than one operation, and have been present in plenty of meetings with him and his bosses... He was always a straight shooter... as for the aid getting a good seat for a general, thats fairly common... I've seen LTs have their PSGs score them an advantagous seat for meetings, its also fairly common with execs in the business world, even to the point of adjusting the seat height.
J
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Well, they could have saved enough to buy all the Humvee armor needed for the next 100 years if they'd canceled the so-called missile shield that doesn't work and won't work.
Making armor is not exactly the Manhattan Project in scope and complexity
Maybe you didn't read the post you replied to:
Quote
1. You don't know what the war will be like, and by the time you figure it out...It will have changed.
2. NO ONE (Democrat or Republican) is willing to spend what it would take to bubble wrap our troops in armor during a time of peace. And you can never get it out fast enough once you need it.
The missle shield won't work huh? I know folks who thought that you could never split an atom, Man cannot fly, others thought the earth was flat, and still others thought the Earth was the center of the universe.
Could you be wrong?
How do you know if you don't test things and try things?
The current system is fundamentally flawed in concept as well as execution. Not only has it never passed a realistic test (all the test targets have been fitted with homing beacons - just like the Iranians and Koreans will do - NOT.), but the simplest of deception measures are just about impossible to defend against. The $billions would have been far better spent elsewhere.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
What if 450 is the correct level of planning and upping production to 550 is just public relations as a direct result of the forum comments? That would equal unnecessary spending.
Of course the supplier will go on record in a position which will increase their profits. Briliant move. Most of the lefties will have a hard time here - who do they hate more, the government or a military contractor?
All these postings assume "more is better". Typical. Why should that be correct vs just working to the plan?
Sorry my posting is based on supporting our troops so the won't get hurt because their riding in a tin can.Politic has nothing to do with it
Rummy told the troops that the armored Humvees were being produced at the max rate. A increase of 22% in production isn't close to max rate. Rummy screwed up he should have said I'll look into it and get with you. Then he would have gotten the credit for the increase in rate of production.
The total number of heavy humvees ordered hasn't changed just the rate of production.
The increase in the production rate will require a change to the origional contract due to the aditional cost of labor (overtime). The contractor's cost will increase so his profit will also go up but the percentage will stay the same.
Don't have a clue of labor costs vs material costs.
Politic's card: left right who's the prick in the middle
Ass-uming is very dangerous. We developed manufacturing processes that produced the best properties, measured ballistic limits, did lots of empirical tests and very little math beyond what was needed to analyze the results.
So you used math? You didn't actually fire at the armor?
I rest my case.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
The current system is fundamentally flawed in concept as well as execution. Not only has it never passed a realistic test (all the test targets have been fitted with homing beacons - just like the Iranians and Koreans will do - NOT.), but the simplest of deception measures are just about impossible to defend against.
I am sure the atom splitting went well at first also.
Quote
The $billions would have been far better spent elsewhere.
Your OPINION and you have admitted you don't know everything about politics.
So could you be wrong?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Ass-uming is very dangerous. We developed manufacturing processes that produced the best properties, measured ballistic limits, did lots of empirical tests and very little math beyond what was needed to analyze the results.
So you used math? You didn't actually fire at the armor?
I rest my case.
I use math when I go to the grocery store, too. I bet you use math every day. I don't see that comment as being very enlightening.
I take it from your answer that you don't know how ballistic limits are measured.
Besides, what does firing at (or wearing) armor have to do with a decision to send our troops into (optional) combat inadequately equipped? How does it apply to piss poor planning?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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Ron 10
From this post:
How did you do all that with out math? You are not know for your demolition skills, and I didn't see you list Special Forces Weapons specalist in that post?
I could of course be wrong...I did assume that a Physics prof. And Materials Eng...Used math.
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Ron 10
Maybe you didn't read the post you replied to:
The missle shield won't work huh? I know folks who thought that you could never split an atom, Man cannot fly, others thought the earth was flat, and still others thought the Earth was the center of the universe.
Could you be wrong?
How do you know if you don't test things and try things?
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slug 1
ChasingBlueSky 0
Off topic here but did you see that making contact with the incoming projectile is NOT an objective in the testing happening in Alaska?
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
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kallend 2,147
Ass-uming is very dangerous. We developed manufacturing processes that produced the best properties, measured ballistic limits, did lots of empirical tests and very little math beyond what was needed to analyze the results.
I actually know a lot about processes for making and testing armor and armor penetrators.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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jdhill 0
I was a direct report for more than one operation, and have been present in plenty of meetings with him and his bosses... He was always a straight shooter... as for the aid getting a good seat for a general, thats fairly common... I've seen LTs have their PSGs score them an advantagous seat for meetings, its also fairly common with execs in the business world, even to the point of adjusting the seat height.
J
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kallend 2,147
The current system is fundamentally flawed in concept as well as execution. Not only has it never passed a realistic test (all the test targets have been fitted with homing beacons - just like the Iranians and Koreans will do - NOT.), but the simplest of deception measures are just about impossible to defend against. The $billions would have been far better spent elsewhere.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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slug 1
Of course the supplier will go on record in a position which will increase their profits. Briliant move. Most of the lefties will have a hard time here - who do they hate more, the government or a military contractor?
All these postings assume "more is better". Typical. Why should that be correct vs just working to the plan?
Sorry my posting is based on supporting our troops so the won't get hurt because their riding in a tin can.Politic has nothing to do with it
Rummy told the troops that the armored Humvees were being produced at the max rate. A increase of 22% in production isn't close to max rate. Rummy screwed up he should have said I'll look into it and get with you. Then he would have gotten the credit for the increase in rate of production.
The total number of heavy humvees ordered hasn't changed just the rate of production.
The increase in the production rate will require a change to the origional contract due to the aditional cost of labor (overtime). The contractor's cost will increase so his profit will also go up but the percentage will stay the same.
Don't have a clue of labor costs vs material costs.
Politic's card: left right who's the prick in the middle
R.I.P.
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Ron 10
So you used math? You didn't actually fire at the armor?
I rest my case.
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Ron 10
I am sure the atom splitting went well at first also.
Your OPINION and you have admitted you don't know everything about politics.
So could you be wrong?
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kallend 2,147
I use math when I go to the grocery store, too. I bet you use math every day. I don't see that comment as being very enlightening.
I take it from your answer that you don't know how ballistic limits are measured.
Besides, what does firing at (or wearing) armor have to do with a decision to send our troops into (optional) combat inadequately equipped? How does it apply to piss poor planning?
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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