mr2mk1g 10 #26 December 9, 2004 One of the funniest comments I've seen on here is when someone a while back was trying to describe a black brit. They described them as an "African-American Englishman". I'm sorry I got confused... where did you say you were from? Hell it's all pointless. On surveys (especially govt. surveys) I always list myself a Jedi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #27 December 9, 2004 QuoteHell it's all pointless. Agreed! If for example a turk immigrant here in germany receives citizenship after so many years of living here, they'll be referred to as a "german" only in every written official communication. He won't receive any benefits for being of turkish origin, either. IMHO, if "nationality" (citizenship) isn't the "smallest measurable unit" when it comes to equal treatment by the state, what else could be? QuoteOn surveys (especially govt. surveys) I always list myself a Jedi. Bahahaa... Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #28 December 9, 2004 Quote***On surveys (especially govt. surveys) I always list myself a Jedi. Bahahaa... I'm not alone : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2757067.stm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scratch 0 #29 December 9, 2004 Skreamer. Lets move to the USA and start calling ourselves "African-Americans" Now that would confuse the crap out of people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #30 December 9, 2004 QuoteSkreamer. Lets move to the USA and start calling ourselves "African-Americans" Now that would confuse the crap out of people. Exactly. I am a caucasian of French origin - but I too was born in Africa, as were my previous 7 or 8 generations. Does this make me a Franco-African? If I were to join your move to the States, would I be a French-African-American? Quite silly, methinks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #31 December 9, 2004 QuoteWhy not? I've never understood the big fuss on this topic either way. Whats wrong with being an American? Why do you need a qualifier? QuoteWhy use any description? Why tell people you are a pilot, skydiver, mountain climber, salesperson, surfer, etc? You do it for attention, pride or to better describe yourself. The same goes for describing your heritage. I don't tend to introduce myself as Skydiver/Pilot/Infantryman Ron. Those that know me know this...But people who don't have no clue. I have no need to push that on others. I also don't demand that people refer to me as the Skydiver-American. Also, one of the big problems I see in America today is the desire for people to try and "classify" themselves where it is not needed. Blacks for example bitch about not being treated equal, then demand to be refered to as something different. You want to be EQUAL? Don't demand "special" treatment. Same goes for all of the ( )- Americans. I can be proud of my past and my accomplishments without demanding you call me anything special. QuoteIf you don't like it, don't do it. Ah, there is the rub. I can't call a black guy "Black". If I do I am considered a racist, or unsensitive. So this kind of crap is pushed on me. I can't just ignore it since it is all around."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #32 December 9, 2004 QuoteWhats wrong with being an American? I don't believe I said that. Nothing wrong with being an American, nor is there anything wrong with adding a modifier to a noun. QuoteI don't tend to introduce myself as Skydiver/Pilot/Infantryman Ron. I don't see anyone else introducing themselves as ___ - American either. Usually it is a topic that comes up later, just like anything else when people start asking questions to find out more about you. Nor do I really hear anyone demanding to be called anything. QuoteAlso, one of the big problems I see in America today is the desire for people to try and "classify" themselves where it is not needed. It helps with inclusion so people feel like part of a group. Lots of people need/want that in their lives. It makes them feel less alone in the world. QuoteAh, there is the rub. I can't call a black guy "Black". If I do I am considered a racist, or unsensitive. Then the last school I worked at must have been racist - on the optional disclosure document during the enrollment it asked if you were "white" "black" "asian" etc. It didn't use hypens._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #33 December 9, 2004 QuoteI mean why bother adding the description? Why not just be an American? (If you are) Does it really matter? Tell that to Japanese-Americans during WWII. There was divide, so they do have the right to acknowledge their heritage/culture. BTW, the point here is that the American-Americans, AKA white folk, were the ones that internerned Japanese-Americans, so maybe that's a little motivation. Before you jump to conclusions, I am against the current administration of Affirmative Action, unlike this very conservative US Sup Ct that just last year or two has not only rubber stamped it, but also wrote that it will be here for another 25 years. Of course they can always overrule that with another decision, but that was their way of expressing how they love the current system. A question I have for you is: Why does it bother you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #34 December 9, 2004 QuoteI don't believe I said that. Nothing wrong with being an American, nor is there anything wrong with adding a modifier to a noun. Adding it is one thing DEMANDING it is another. QuoteNor do I really hear anyone demanding to be called anything. Do you get out much? Quote It helps with inclusion so people feel like part of a group. Lots of people need/want that in their lives. It makes them feel less alone in the world. Well lets see...Inclusive...Uh if you are an American thats about as inclusive as you can get. We take all kinds of countries in on trade. What they want to do is SEPERATE. I find it funny when someone claims they want equal, but they really mean "special" treatment. QuoteThen the last school I worked at must have been racist That is for you to decide."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #35 December 9, 2004 QuoteTell that to Japanese-Americans during WWII. There was divide Yep there WAS a divide. By demanding that they be called something different than everyone else, they just make that divide bigger. Quotethey do have the right to acknowledge their heritage/culture Who said otherwise? I asked why they have to be called (anything) Americans, and not just Americans? You can be who you are/who you want all you wish, however you just widen the differences by doing this. I am ALL for treating people as people reguardless of color. I don't see color. I don't care about race. But I have others try to force me to accept them as different...But then listen to them bitch about it later. QuoteBTW, the point here is that the American-Americans, AKA white folk, were the ones that internerned Japanese-Americans, so maybe that's a little motivation. It was not me that put them in internment camps....And I bet most Americans of Japanese descent were not in one. QuoteA question I have for you is: Why does it bother you? You remember the little African symbols blacks used to wear about 13 years ago? Well, how do you think people would act if I wore a little symbol of England around my neck, and talked about "English American" Pride? I would be called a racist. Its a double standard that seems to be OK. I find it funny that people bitch about being equal, then do everything they can to seperate themselves."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #36 December 9, 2004 QuoteWhy not? I've never understood the big fuss on this topic either way. Because there are few things that piss me off more than someone claiming they're "african american" when they've never even set foot on the continent I was raised on. For some reason it really aggrevates the shit outta me when someone who's never even BEEN to the continent, let alone was born there, runs around labeling themselves like that. If people ask me what my heritage is, I'll tell them, but I don't run around calling myself a South African-Irish-Scottish-British-American. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #37 December 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteTell that to Japanese-Americans during WWII. There was divide Quotethey do have the right to acknowledge their heritage/culture QuoteBTW, the point here is that the American-Americans, AKA white folk, were the ones that internerned Japanese-Americans, so maybe that's a little motivation. QuoteA question I have for you is: Why does it bother you? Yep there WAS a divide. By demanding that they be called something different than everyone else, they just make that divide bigger. I don't know if people called themselves by origin with a hyphen in the 40's, but I doubt they did. I'm thinking they would have been ostracized if they did. So, if that's true, then the internment came first. Blacks, when they came form Africa, probably did not call themselves African-American, especially since they weren't even considered humans by our great (hack, cough, puke) founding fathers. The 1890's Chinese exclusion act prohibited the immigration of Chinese people for a while; do you think they had the dare to call themselves Chinese-Americans? We can go on and on, and BTW, I'm of Irish descent, but what I'm saying here is that the atrocities occurred before the hyphenation, so maybe it's a form of liberation. Also, don't insult any of us by pretending you understand what it's like to walk down the sidewalk or apply for a job when you're black, Asian, Hispanic, etc... Who said otherwise? I asked why they have to be called (anything) Americans, and not just Americans? That's like asking why, "they" have to be called gay. If I want to change my name to, "$&(((*(*," and then hyphenate it with, "-American" I will. You can be who you are/who you want all you wish, however you just widen the differences by doing this. Perhaps, or, "they" might think it establishes their culture. The divide was initiated by the white man, Irish, English, Scottish, etc..; the hyphenation was a reaction to the oppression of the white man. I am ALL for treating people as people reguardless of color. I don't see color. I don't care about race. But I have others try to force me to accept them as different...But then listen to them bitch about it later. Well, you have enough vigor to initiate this thread, so you must be motivated by something. How is it that you are being forced - please explain. Do people correct you when you address them as Americans? Do they get insistent and angry if you refuse to use the hyphen? It was not me that put them in internment camps....And I bet most Americans of Japanese descent were not in one. You have the same ignorance that I did before I entered college. 110,000 Japanese-Americans were interned losing most of their valuables along the way. To prove their Americanness they formed the 442nd Infantry and were amongst the fiercest fighting unit in WWII. The Americans obviously placed them in the European theatre and they went through France and Italy as I recall. So, my hateful friend, they have earned the right to use the hyphen, if you don't like it, get some counseling and maybe the nice doctor will give you a bottle of pills to ease your anger. I was told I can leave if I don't like it, I will say to you that you can leave if you don't like it; it being living in a heterogeneous society. You remember the little African symbols blacks used to wear about 13 years ago? Well, how do you think people would act if I wore a little symbol of England around my neck, and talked about "English American" Pride? I would be called a racist. Its a double standard that seems to be OK. No, I don't recall them. There is FUBU, other than that I don't know. A concept of racism is that it isn't pure majority that established who may control via race, it's who has the majority of power. This is exemplified by looking at South Africa of past. So since white America has the majority and the majority of power/money, then we can only be the oppressors or not; we cannot be oppressed. I hate that concept, but it is true. That's why a Socialist government is the best, since the power is more evenly distributed and race/bias/oppression is controlled by the government rather than by corporations or the individual rich/well-off people. As for what would people think about your necklace, I don't think they would care. But it is apples/oranges since white America is derived in large part from the UK. I find it funny that people bitch about being equal, then do everything they can to seperate themselves. The separation occurred before the hyphens, get your sequence/chronology straight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #38 December 9, 2004 I consider the fact that people use these hyphenated terms something to be proud of about our country. It's an indication that our nation has gathered together people from all walks of life and all different cultures together to participate in our form of democracy. That's a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #39 December 9, 2004 I'm damn proud of my Scotch Irish and German roots. Don't expect my to hyphenate them in, though. I am an American. That's where I was born and raised and where I am proud of being a citizen. Teddy Roosevelt on hyphenated Americans: http://www.rpatrick.com/USA/americanism/witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #40 December 9, 2004 Quote Well, how do you think people would act if I wore a little symbol of England around my neck, and talked about "English American" Pride? I would be called a racist. Its a double standard that seems to be OK. I find it funny that people bitch about being equal, then do everything they can to seperate themselves. that is exactly the reason why i started putting European-American on every place that asked for 'race' African-American isnt a racial designation either.. .but dont tell anyone else that...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #41 December 9, 2004 QuoteI'm damn proud of my Scotch Irish and German roots. Don't expect my to hyphenate them in, though. I am an American. That's where I was born and raised and where I am proud of being a citizen. Teddy Roosevelt on hyphenated Americans: http://www.rpatrick.com/USA/americanism/ That's dated 1915, which places us at the start of WWI. Women hadn't yet even earned (EDIT: a right that should have been inherent and inalienable; they fought for it rather than earned it) the right to vote, and slavery was just abolished 52 years prior, even though forms of it were still in place for some decades later. We hadn't even seen Japanese-American internment or having seperate public restrooms and fountains, that kind of racism was too advanced for us meaning we were far worse that that in 1915. Antimiscegination laws allowed for the deportation of women that married non-white males were still in place too. So to think that in the middle of a major world war, and with civil rights meaning linchings were the soup de jour, I hardly recognize your reference as anything but an interesting piece of nostalgia. So this reference is moot to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #42 December 9, 2004 QuoteI don't know if people called themselves by origin with a hyphen in the 40's, but I doubt they did. I'm thinking they would have been ostracized if they did. So, if that's true, then the internment came first. Blacks, when they came form Africa, probably did not call themselves African-American, especially since they weren't even considered humans by our great (hack, cough, puke) founding fathers. The 1890's Chinese exclusion act prohibited the immigration of Chinese people for a while; do you think they had the dare to call themselves Chinese-Americans? We can go on and on, and BTW, I'm of Irish descent, but what I'm saying here is that the atrocities occurred before the hyphenation, so maybe it's a form of liberation. You make no sense. They want to be equal, but the seperate themselves. QuoteAlso, don't insult any of us by pretending you understand what it's like to walk down the sidewalk or apply for a job when you're black, Asian, Hispanic, etc... I do know what its like to be attacked because I was white...So don't insult me saying I don't know about race bias. QuoteThat's like asking why, "they" have to be called gay. If I want to change my name to, "$&(((*(*," and then hyphenate it with, "-American" I will. And it would be your right...But its my right to think its stupid. QuotePerhaps, or, "they" might think it establishes their culture. The divide was initiated by the white man, Irish, English, Scottish, etc..; the hyphenation was a reaction to the oppression of the white man I take offense to you throwing me in with the white man...You don't know my history. There is a big difference between an Irish guy and a Brit. A big difference between a German and a French person. And I ahve never in my life oppressed a guy for his color, so don't even start that shit. QuoteYou have the same ignorance that I did before I entered college. 110,000 Japanese-Americans were interned losing most of their valuables along the way. To prove their Americanness they formed the 442nd Infantry and were amongst the fiercest fighting unit in WWII. The Americans obviously placed them in the European theatre and they went through France and Italy as I recall How does any of you college help you misunderstand the question...Cause you sure did. I said that most of the people in interment camps, or caused the internment camps are not here today....And you went nutzo. Maybe you should go back to school? Oh, I know all about the 442 I was infantry, I also know about the triple nickels. QuoteSo, my hateful friend, they have earned the right to use the hyphen, if you don't like it, get some counseling and maybe the nice doctor will give you a bottle of pills to ease your anger. That is a personal attack. Maybe you should stop assuming you know me, and what I know? QuoteNo, I don't recall them. There is FUBU, other than that I don't know Maybe you should learn more before you speak then? QuoteThat's why a Socialist government is the best If you think a socialist government will rid the world of hate...you need to study more. QuoteI find it funny that people bitch about being equal, then do everything they can to seperate themselves. The separation occurred before the hyphens, get your sequence/chronology straight The hyphen makes it larger. Its clear you would rather feel as "The Man" is holding you down."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EBSB52 0 #43 December 9, 2004 QuoteIMO You really dont have to ask 75% people where they are from(origion) just look at them. If you can not decide, either they have been here a while and the years of "melting pot" effect has blended them, or they are from a not well known country. One criticism of the melting pot metaphor; it suggests we assimilate to be the same/look the same. The new-fangled way to understand it is, "mixing bowl." A mixing bowl can have all kinds of different things co-existing in harmony, but have different appearances. Just a PC thing they throw at ya in college - I kinda see the validity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #44 December 9, 2004 QuoteSo this reference is moot to me. Thats critical thinking...Ignore anything that proves you wrong. You sure you are in school?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,559 #45 December 9, 2004 QuoteThey want to be equal, but the seperate themselves. Equal is not same. And identifying oneself by ethnic or national origin doesn't separate you; that's a whole 'nother choice. While I think that sort of identification is silly, well, ya know, I think lots of things are silly, but they seem to work for other people, and they don't affect me. I want to be equal to others, in that my abilities are recognized on the same scale as others'. Which means that an accent that doesn't interfere with clarity shouldn't make you think I'm stupid just because it's from east Texas, etc. etc. etc. And if you've been identified as being part of a group without having volunteered it enough, well, maybe it makes you feel better to turn it into something to be proud of. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #46 December 9, 2004 Yep, when my sister and bro-in-law (both South African) have kids the kids will be American and nothing else. When I hear someone describe themselves as 'Something-American' I think 'No, Stupid-Poes'. Hell, apart from the chimp currently in charge I reckon its a great country (been there for nine holidays). Oh, and I work for an American bank here in London and it is great, best employer I've ever had. Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #47 December 9, 2004 QuoteWhile I think that sort of identification is silly, well, ya know, I think lots of things are silly, but they seem to work for other people, and they don't affect me. And I think its silly as well....So thats why I asked...So far no one has come up with a reason."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blitzkrieg 0 #48 December 10, 2004 i think that's a good question... my general answer for any question like that is that people are stupid. most people want to make themselves feel that they are special or better than other people... whether they admit it or not. i don't think it's bad to be proud of your heritage, but bragging about it because a certain background makes you superior at something is a rash of $hit. personally, i'm convinced that every last bastard on earth is racist or prejudiced. most will not admit it. but as long as there are bull$hit programs like affirmative action, and other "race balancing" enactments and admissions, there will always be prejudism. call me what you want, but i'll make fun of anyones ethnicity or heritage or whatever just as easily as i will my own. you want fair treatment? why is it ok for the word "nigger" to be used in rap songs, but not by a white guy in ANY environment? i may be getting off on a tangent, but this stuff really bugs me... anyone that's offended by a word alone, deserves it. toughen up! anyway, peace love and hairgrease... ~E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #49 December 10, 2004 QuoteAnd I think its silly as well....So thats why I asked...So far no one has come up with a reason. I think people like to distinguish themselves form the norm. They like to indicate they are different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #50 December 10, 2004 QuoteI think people like to distinguish themselves form the norm. They like to indicate they are different Then why do they bitch when they think they are being treated differently?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
