what do....

[billvon 3,120]

>I disagree.... The school can give you the tools...the books the teachers
> etc... But they can not force you or make you be successful.

I didn't say anything about "making people successful", just educating them well. An education is just one part (but a very important part) of being successful. It is worth spending a lot of time and money on, both from a persoal perspective (i.e. working with your own kids) and from a government perspective (i.e. funding education as if it is as critical to the future survival of the US as the military is.)

[nigel99 625]

on the spreadsheet does the UK not being on it mean that it is not in the top 45?

Sorry I could not find a top level above the spreadsheet with a description. They are members of the OECD.

I am not shocked if they are not their attitude towards education sucks big time... just surprised that some of the other countries listed would be better.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JohnRich 4]

Interesting quote from the study:

The results of PISA 2003 suggest that both students and schools perform best in a climate characterised by high expectations that are supported through strong teacher-student relations, students who are ready to invest effort and who show interest and lower levels of anxiety with mathematics, and a positive disciplinary climate. In most of the countries that performed well, local authorities and schools also have substantial responsibility for educational content and/or the use of resources, and many set out to teach heterogeneous groups of learners.

Source: OECD

Complete report

The complete download, or even the individual chapters, are rather big.

[AggieDave 6]

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What makes you think I missed the point?

Regardless, do you disagree with my statement.

Well, it seems like you constantly overlook dry humor, so I'm just starting to point it out when you respond to a post of mine in that manner.

And I feel like your statement is quite elitest. Although education is paramount to a successful society, I do not believe that it will or can degrade to the level in which you discribe.

I believe that intelligence is basically a bell curve across society. There will always be extreme intelligence and exteme lack there of, but there will always be the middle of the curve.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

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A "large" class of under educated.... No.
I do believe though that intelligence is a bell curve across the population.

there is quiet a difference between intelligence and education.... it doesnt really matter how bright you are if you never have an environment to expand and refine your basic abilities.. an average student can go much farther with a good education than an intelligent one who never leaves the farm...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[slug 1]

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A "large" class of under educated.... No.
I do believe though that intelligence is a bell curve across the population.

there is quiet a difference between intelligence and education.... it doesnt really matter how bright you are if you never have an environment to expand and refine your basic abilities.. an average student can go much farther with a good education than an intelligent one who never leaves the farm...

Where's Bill Gates when we need him

41

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

Quote

Quote

A "large" class of under educated.... No.
I do believe though that intelligence is a bell curve across the population.

there is quiet a difference between intelligence and education.... it doesnt really matter how bright you are if you never have an environment to expand and refine your basic abilities.. an average student can go much farther with a good education than an intelligent one who never leaves the farm...

Where's Bill Gates when we need him

41

Bill Gates was an above average student with an excellent education. Just because he left college before getting his degree doesn't mean he wasn't well educated.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,151]

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What makes you think I missed the point?

Regardless, do you disagree with my statement.

Well, it seems like you constantly overlook dry humor, so I'm just starting to point it out when you respond to a post of mine in that manner.

And I feel like your statement is quite elitest.

.

Did you miss the part where I wrote:

"The economy of the country will not be sustained by having just a small well educated elite"

Please explain how exactly that is elitist?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

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The economy of the country will not be sustained by having just a small well educated elite"

Please explain how exactly that is elitist?

Its implying that the country is running right now due to a small well educated elite and that yall can't maintain it.

It came across as quite elite sounding.








(I guess it doesn't matter since I'm obviously not apart of the small well educated elite. Maybe the large well educated elite, but thats a whole 'nother discussion about midgets.) hehe

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

A "large" class of under educated.... No.
I do believe though that intelligence is a bell curve across the population.

there is quiet a difference between intelligence and education.... it doesnt really matter how bright you are if you never have an environment to expand and refine your basic abilities.. an average student can go much farther with a good education than an intelligent one who never leaves the farm...

Where's Bill Gates when we need him

41

Bill Gates was an above average student with an excellent education. Just because he left college before getting his degree doesn't mean he wasn't well educated.

and having the pieces of paper that say you've been to X school doesnt prove your educated either.. simply that you showed up and regurgitated enough information to pass...

it is intelligence AND education that give great results... you cant control intelligence, but by making sure the majority of the populace has the opportunity to aquire a good education we ensure we are not left behind as a society...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Jib 0]

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Bill Gates was an above average student with an excellent education. Just because he left college before getting his degree doesn't mean he wasn't well educated.

Okay, then how did Mr. Gates become well educated?

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[kallend 2,151]

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Bill Gates was an above average student with an excellent education. Just because he left college before getting his degree doesn't mean he wasn't well educated.

Okay, then how did Mr. Gates become well educated?

"Born on Oct. 28, 1955, Gates grew up in Seattle with his two sisters. Their father, William H. Gates II, is a Seattle attorney. Their late mother, Mary Gates, was a schoolteacher, University of Washington regent, and chairwoman of United Way International.

Gates attended public elementary school and the private Lakeside School. There, he discovered his interest in software and began programming computers at age 13.

In 1973, Gates entered Harvard University as a freshman, where he lived down the hall from Steve Ballmer, now Microsoft's chief executive officer. While at Harvard, Gates developed a version of the programming language BASIC for the first microcomputer - the MITS Altair."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,151]

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The economy of the country will not be sustained by having just a small well educated elite"

Please explain how exactly that is elitist?

Its implying that the country is running right now due to a small well educated elite and that yall can't maintain it.

It came across as quite elite sounding.

Once again you infer something and conclude that I implied it. I think that makes three times in the last month.

I made a factual statement. No hidden meanings.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

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I think that makes three times in the last month.

Whatcha gonna do, kick me out of class prof or fail me...I really don't give a fuck Kallend.

The entire premise about debating on the internet is about what people think you're saying. If you are misunderstood then its not the fault of the reader.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

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If you are misunderstood then its not the fault of the reader.

it is absolutely the fault of the reader... it takes two to tango... the writer has already set the rhythm... if the dancer cant hear it.......

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[AggieDave 6]

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it is absolutely the fault of the reader... it takes two to tango... the writer has already set the rhythm... if the dancer cant hear it.......

Writing clearly and concisly is important to setting the rhythm, though. Constantly writing with an undertone, then not understand why the message was not fully understood as intended when the undertone is not written is not the fault of the reader.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zenister 0]

your fun to dance with dave, but i'm drunk and scared of your fiance so i'm off to bed

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[AggieDave 6]

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scared of your fiance so i'm off to bed

That's a good reason. She might only be 5'1" "on a good day" but she'll kick your ass man...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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So why is the US so low in the rankings? Schools in other countries succeed in inculcating these values where ours don't, apparently. How do you explain that, and do you think it healthy for the country to have a large undereducated class of citizens.

When we allow seniors to graduate when they are reading at a 5th grade level, something is DEFINITELY wrong.

How about we start enforcing pass/fail and quit worrying about how being held back will affect the student's self esteem?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,151]

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it is absolutely the fault of the reader... it takes two to tango... the writer has already set the rhythm... if the dancer cant hear it.......

Writing clearly and concisly is important to setting the rhythm, though. Constantly writing with an undertone, then not understand why the message was not fully understood as intended when the undertone is not written is not the fault of the reader.

And what exactly is unclear or not concise in the statement:

"The economy of the country will not be sustained by having just a small well educated elite as storm77 seems to suggest."

I mean, it even has correct spelling!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[EricTheRed 0]

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How about we start enforcing pass/fail and quit worrying about how being held back will affect the student's self esteem?

Agreed. In fact, poor self esteem isn't nearly as bad as our PC society has made it out to be. If you feel good as a loser, chances are you will continue to be a loser. Feel bad about it and you'll likely work harder next time.

I recall a study that examined the self esteem levels of CEO's and compared it to the self esteem of felons in jail and found that overall, the felons had higher self esteem. I'll post a link if I can find it.

illegible usually