Do parents have a right to decide this?

[Daizey 0]

I came across a documentary recently that, at first, sort of angered me. After thinking about it and researching it a bit more, I’m now left with more of a feeling of confusion over which is the correct opinion-if there even is one. The title of the documentary was “Sound and Fiery” and it was done by a man by the name of Josh Aronson. This documentary follows two branches of a Long Island family as they decide whether or not to allow their children to get cochlear implants-small devices surgically placed inside the ear that help make hearing possible for many of those that are deaf.

It would seem like this is an easy answer. I mean, if one’s child was born deaf, why not give them the ability to hear? One father in this documentary doesn’t see it that way.

Peter Artinian and his wife are both deaf. Together they gave birth to three children who share this disability. Peter was very happy this was the case. As their daughter, Heather grows older and the technology of cochlear implants is introduced to her, she decides she wants the implant. Peter is opposed. Around the same time, his brother, Chris, and his wife, neither of whom are deaf, give birth to a baby boy who is. They decide they want to go ahead with the implant surgery.

Peter and Chris’s father thinks that the cochlear implants are a great idea and disagrees with Peter’s opinion. He tells Peter, “If I didn’t know you, I would say you were an abusing parent.”

But Peter doesn’t see it that way. He feels if Heather goes ahead and gets the implants, it will change her identity. Peter sees his deaf world as a gift. He believes his silent world is worth preserving and feels the use of cochlear implants is betraying to his deaf culture. With his parents push for the implants he also feels deceived. As he says to his parents, “I didn’t know you didn’t accept deafness until now.”

Chris’s family however feels that the ability to hear is a great gift, and without it, his child will be missing out on many things in life.

Is there a right or a wrong side to this? Is a physical disadvantage something we should try to fix or celebrate? And do parents have a right to keep their children from the hearing world just because in their opinion and experience, deaf is beautiful?

*daizey*

[wmw999 2,600]

Peter is giving his children a harder row to hoe, but it's one he's familiar with, and finds comfortable. Some deaf folks appear to really find it to be an integral part of their identity -- who are we to say it's wrong how they feel about themselves.

The problem is that the deaf culture world appears to be smaller than the non-deaf-culture world. If you are a person who would rather more thoroughly explore a smaller world, that might be good. If you'd rather less thoroughly explore a bigger world, then it wouldn't look so good.

Either way, there really isn't a right or wrong answer necessarily. If I had a deaf child who could be helped with a cochlear implant, I'd do so when he was young. But if I had an adult child who could be helped and chose not to -- yes, I'd love him exactly the way he was.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pajarito 0]

I agree with you. This is a tough scenario. I would help the child any way I could. However, I also respect the guy's authority as a parent and his right to raise his child how he sees fit. I may not agree with his way but that's not for us to decide. I feel sorry for the kid, though.

[Ron 10]

Yes parents have the right.

Unless they are hurting the child they have the right to raise them as they see fit.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Daizey 0]

It is definitely a tough situation...the documentary was from 2000...so I wonder what ever happened to the daughter...I do know the longer one waits the less likely the inplant will work.

What's interesting is Peter's wife suported the implants and in fact wanted to get them herself until she learned that they wouldnt benefit her much as an adult. Once she learned this she became oposed to the implants and of Heather gettting one.

That fact there kind of throws it off. If it was all about preserving the culture, that is one important fact. But Im not sure what to think since she was at one point considering getting them until finding it may not work. Now she seems to be saying since she is not going to get them, Heather can't either.

*daizey*

[AndyMan 7]

The answer is simple. Of course the parents have that right.

Is there an alternative?

As a (future?) parent, could you imagine the state requiring you to implant an electronic device into your children? Can you think of other examples of where the state requires invasive procedures?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I If it was all about preserving the culture, that is one important fact.

With the limited interaction I have had with the deaf community I found a strong pride. I asked a few deaf individuals if they would ever take an opportunity to enter the hearing world and they all said no. Of course I cannot relate, but I do respect their personal decision.

Is it abuse what they were doing to their child? I don't think so - and if it was, the state would most likely have gotten involved. It seems the parents have made an informed, educated choice for their child - which is their right.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[AggieDave 6]

So you would rather have the government step in and tell you how to raise your children?

As long as abuse is not involved, I want the government the hell away from my personal life and how I'm going to raise my future children and I would rather not see them get involved with any one else's lives on that level.

You know what governments are called when they control a large aspect of your life? Its not a democratic repulic and you don't have rights as we know them, I'll tell you that...you can draw your own conclusions.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[GARYC24 3]

I think the parents have the 'right.

But reading this makes me think of my ASL teacher, she spoke about this and says that some deaf people do not want them, because they would feel they will not be part of their social group(meetings,etc) anymore with other deaf people, if they can now hear. I wonder if that may play apart in this.

[Guest]

Talk about being selfish! Anybody who wants to procreate KNOWING that they'll breed defectives should voluntarily remove themselves from the gene pool.

Just goes to show you the you can never understimate the stupidity of people in large numbers.

mh

.

[AggieDave 6]

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Talk about being selfish! Anybody who wants to procreate KNOWING that they'll breed defectives should voluntarily remove themselves from the gene pool.

I'm a very large framed person and have always had a battle with my weight. I'm not a perfect human speciman, so I guess I shouldn't breed and bring a non-perfect child into the world.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lawrocket 3]

This seems to be along the lines of the circumcision debate.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,131]

>Anybody who wants to procreate KNOWING that they'll breed defectives . . .

There are people with physical impairments who do not consider themselves defectives. I went to school with Ailish O'Connor, a woman with a congenital defect that left her with one hand (well, one and a half.) She played women's volleyball and women's basketball, and did well at it. She's a laywer in DC last I heard. Dan Rossi and Blind John are both blind skydivers; Dan just got back from an Everest expedition. I don't think any of those people consider themselves defective in any more than a superficial sense, and I don't know if any of their impairments are heritable. But they get to make those calls, and if their kids are anything like they are, the world would be a better place for them - impaired or not.

[jakee 1,609]

Quote

This seems to be along the lines of the circumcision debate.

Not really. Having a foreskin is the natural state for a male. Being deaf is not normal and it is a disability.

Having said that I think its the parents right to decide whether or not their kids get implants (until the kids are old enough to make their own decisions) but I must admit I'm puzzled by the feelings of some deaf people on this issue. In some articles on the subject people have been quoted as saying its genocide! Then again I don't know any deaf people so I've never been able to ask about that reasoning.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Muenkel 0]

Bill,

Your post is very interesting. I watched Larry King last night. His guest was a young man named Kyle Maynard. Kyle is a congenital amputee. His arms end before the elbow and his legs end before the knee...however he does have feet. It's amazing what this guy has accomplished. He's a star wrestler, played football (btw, he walks on all 4's), a college student, male model for A&F, types 50 wpm and a public speaker. It is amazing what this young guy has accomplished and his attitude that goes along with it.

I know this is off topic, but this thread reminded me of this story. If anyone wants to know about Kyle Maynard and his foundation, you can go to his website at www.kmaynard.com. It's quite fascinating.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Nightingale 0]

It's a problem of cultural interactions.

The Deaf community, unlike most other disabled populations, has formed a very tightly knit community that is quite important to its members. The parents fear that, by changing their children from deaf to hearing, the children will no longer be members of their culture and community.

Many Deaf people don't see themselves as disabled, rather, they just see themselves as different. In their minds, changing a child from Deaf to hearing is akin to changing someone's culture from african to european. While they don't see anything wrong with either culture, they want their kids brought up in their own culture.

While those of us who are members of the hearing community may see cochlear implants as fixing a defect, many members of the Deaf community don't believe that there is anything that requires fixing.

[billvon 3,131]

>The Deaf community, unlike most other disabled populations, has
>formed a very tightly knit community that is quite important to its members.

"The Persistence of Vision" by John Varley is a book that explores this sort of community; it's an interesting read.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The answer is simple. Of course the parents have that right.

Is there an alternative?

Certainly there is- the wishes of the child. At 18 there is no doubt she has the right to decide, but I think she can make an informed decision long before then. And if the success probabilities is diminished by waiting until then, her parents do not have the right to deny her the attempt just because they don't see deafness as a disability.

[airdweller 0]

Until the child reaches the legal age to make medical decision on their own behalf, I believe the parents have the right to to decide this.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[Zenister 0]

at which point the current implants will have about the same result that it would for the mother who did a 180...

sorry they may have the 'right' but this is simply asshat behavior... why deprive your child of an opportunity to be 'normal' just because you yourself cannot take advatage of it?

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[bch7773 0]

I think they have the right to make their childs medical decisons, as long as it doesn't hurt the child. that being said, they are wrong for not giving their child the gift of hearing. i guess because they have never heard things, they assume its no big deal.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Muenkel 0]

OK, I spoke to my 13 year old niece tonight. She's been deaf all her life. She told me she would try any procedure that would give her the chance to hear. She also said that if her parent's found a procedure when she was an infant, she would not have had to go through all she's been through. Don't get me wrong, she's accepted that she is deaf. However, she does wish she could hear.

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Chris

[airdweller 0]

Reasons for such actions by parents are not as simplistic as "just because you yourself cannot take advatage of it". Yet I do not think these types of emotional responses address the original question which is do parents have the right to make these types of decisions for there children.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[Zenister 0]

what other reason could they possibly have other than "i want my child to grow up like me" (even if they dont have to)?

fear. fear that their child will not be able to relate to them because they have a chance to experience the full spectrum of life enjoyed by the majority of humanity... it is ignorant and selfish... and yes they have the right, however misguided their application of that right is... in some ways it is like a parent that refuses to help their child pay for college simply because they never had the opportunity to go.. the difference is, by making that decision at an early age they deprive their child of the only opportunity currently available ot have a 'normal' life...normal as in experienced by the majority of humanity

I have an aunt who has been deaf since she had an accident as a small child. She would do anything to be able to hear... when she lived with my parents while i was in college she would often come to our band rehearsals and sit in with me in the rhythm section to be able to feel the bass and drums... it is the only experience of music she 'gets'... i cant imagine how selfish and afraid of rejection a parent would have to be to intentionally deprive their child of the chance to enjoy music or even the sound of the ocean.... (my aunt can 'hear' that too when underwater) but she has told me often she wishes she could hear the waves...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[jb092 0]

I dated a deaf girl for about a year and we had this conversation about the implants. She was totally against them for the fact that she thought it would destroy the deaf community. They take great pride in who they are. I agreed with her when she said a child that was born deaf to deaf parents would most likely not get the implants but a deaf child born to hearing parents would probably get it. It is the parents choice at the young ages.

What could possibly go wrong?