Gun Facts 4.0

[quade 4]

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People not familiar with guns often think it is easy to have one at hand all the time. People who never considered carrying have no idea what a pain in the ass they can be sometimes.

Oh, and quade, Ron is right. It's just as easy to pick something up and bludgeon a person to death. And there's always something heavy at hand.

What do you know about road rage shootings in LA?

True, people could just bash each other with the cars themselves, but for some reason they choose to shoot at each other. I wonder why?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

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Like I said, the numbers I quoted were valid at the time it was written a couple of years ago. Obviously the numbers will be different from year to year, but I think the trend speaks for itself. Look at the percentage of gun murders in the US compared to all murders and then look at all the other countries with stricter gun control laws.

Who cares what weapon was used to commit the murder? How does that make any difference one way or the other?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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In a place saturated to the gills with Guns how hard is it for those who want to to get them.

Do you really think it's hard for criminals to get guns in the UK?

You're dreaming. The criminals that want them will always be able to get them. It's called the black market, and no law has ever been able to shut it down.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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What do you know about road rage shootings in LA?

More than you might think. Some asshole cut me off in DC traffic, flipped me the bird, then got out and came at me/my car with a wrench in hand. No idea what was in this idiot's head, as I hadn't even looked at him cross-eyed.
(I was in the slow lane, and he came along the driver's side. I just drove into the shoulder and took off for the nearest exit)

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True, people could just bash each other with the cars themselves, but for some reason they choose to shoot at each other. I wonder why?

Guns are effective at winning violent confrontations. Take them away and violent people will just move to the next most effective tool. Wrenches, tire irons, knives, and so on.

Would you feel better about a road rage incident if you read that the victim were beaten to death instead of shot?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[CornishChris 5]

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Do you really think it's hard for criminals to get guns in the UK?

You're dreaming. The criminals that want them will always be able to get them. It's called the black market, and no law has ever been able to shut it down.

I think itis harder to get guns in the UK than it is in the states. If you do not then take another look at the figures.

If I was dreaming then you would be saying the following: "I hate guns and everything they stand for.", then you would turn into a fish and I would be selling cakes to a small chinese man who lived on top of a tree.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Kennedy 0]

Fuck, and I thought I had weird dreams!

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Douva 0]

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Because people who are trying to protect people go over board and don't think. There was one poster on here that said that he wished a company would go bankrupt before it laid off people....That is emotion not logic talking.

Whenever I hear those types of irrational arguments, I'm reminded of a conversation I once had in my barbershop. (I've mentioned this before.) My barber asked if I'd been jumping lately, and the guy in the next chair immediately took an interest and started asking me about skydiving. The conversation eventually got around to aircraft recovery parachutes. This man wanted to know why the airlines couldn't put large recovery chutes in commercial airliners so that nobody would ever have to die in another plane crash. I explained that the chute would be so big that it would fill up most of the fuselage. His reply was, "Who cares, as long as it saves one life?" I then explained that this would mean that the airlines would have to increase fares to make up for the lost passengers. His reply was, "Who cares, as long as it saves one life?" I went on to explain that this would eventually make it impossible for all but the lavishly wealthy to fly. His reply was, "Who cares, as long as it saves one life?" I continued by explaining that with such a small percentage of the population able to fly, the airlines would eventually go out of business. His reply, once again, was, "Who cares, as long as it saves one life." Contrary to what many in this world would like to believe, we cannot value life before all else and expect to move forward.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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The figures in this quote were valid at the time it was published February 7, 2001. I doubt much has changed since then.

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"If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?"

Is there anything in the Gun Facts 4.0 pdf that addresses this disparity or phenomenon?

I'm not normally one to give props to Michael Moore, but I was actually intrigued by the way he approached this subject in Bowling for Columbine. He noted that even other countries with high numbers of guns still have considerably lower murder rates. He attributed it to a "culture of fear" in the United States. I don't know if that's necessarily true or not, but it's an interesting take. I think there are definitely some cultural differences between the good ol' U.S. of A. and the other countries mentioned. For instance, I think America is more of a cultural melting pot. Cultural differences often equal conflict. Also, U.S. social services are less effective at taking care of our poor because our economy is less socialized than the other countries mentioned. Poverty often equals conflict. And finally, yes, the abundance of guns in the U.S. does make a difference because the United States of America is still a free country. As I said in my previous post, we cannot value life above all else and expect to move forward.

--Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Ron 10]

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I disagree with the whole Guns don't kill people and are just tools statement

How can you disagree with a fact?

I have never read or heard ONE story about a gun going out and killing someone.

I however have read many stories about a PERSON using a GUN to kill someone.

A gun IS a tool.
A gun will not kill someone unless it is used.

Those are facts.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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This man wanted to know why the airlines couldn't put large recovery chutes in commercial airliners so that nobody would ever have to die in another plane crash

Next time just tell him that most crashed happen at takeoff or landing. To low for a big as parachute to work.

If that does not work, you could always shoot him with any gun you find laying around.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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What do you know about road rage shootings in LA?

BTW do your know what "dooring" is?

Some asshole gets pissed off and uses a gun (That I bet he is not licensed to carry) to try and attack a guy that is driving along.

Now, if a guy came at you with a gun....Would you like to be able to have one to defend yourself if you can't escape? Or would you rather just "die in place" as we used to say in the military?

Escape is the better option than a shoot out, but since we all agree that a criminal type will get a gun if he wants, and a criminal type WILL commit violent crimes with or without a gun. (Your "crimes of passion" statement was wrong...More deaths in those situations are from BFT.) Why make it so law abiding citizens can't defend themselves from criminals?

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True, people could just bash each other with the cars themselves, but for some reason they choose to shoot at each other. I wonder why?

People will always take the path of least resistance. If you wanted to kill someone would you fight him with your fists, or use a weapon?

You will use the most effective tool that you can find. That tool will be a gun, or poision.

But the real question is this...If you know that bad people will do bad things. Why not want to be able to defend yourself?

As once said:
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

Theodore Roosevelt

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[blitzkrieg 0]

i feel for the innocent victims...

but if i had the time to research all 10000+ people (aside from the few i know) that have been "murdered" by guns, i'm curious to find how many of those people had it coming.

live by the sword... die by the sword.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Contrary to what many in this world would like to believe, we cannot value life before all else and expect to move forward"

This is something we in the UK safety business call the ALARP principle.
You do everything within reason to ensure risks are As Low As Reasonably Practicable.

IE the cost of the mitigation is not disproportionate to the risk involved.

EG why don't we wear a second reserve?.... Because the failure on demand of primary reserves is so low that the hassles involved outweigh the benefits.

Nicely summed up by Lord Asquith in a test case....
"'Reasonably practicable' is a narrower term than 'physically possible'and it seems to me to imply that a computation must be made by the owner, in which the quantum of risk is placed on one scale and the sacrifice involved in the measures necessary for averting the risk (whether in money, time or trouble) is placed in the other; and that if it be shown that there is a gross disproportion between them – the risk being insignificant in relation to the sacrifice – the defendants discharge the onus on them. Moreover, this computation falls to be made by the owner at a point of time anterior to the accident."
----Edwards v National Coal Board (1949)---- just for MrM2.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Kennedy 0]

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...i'm curious to find how many of those people had it coming. [/reply

That's one more point often left out by gun-banners: most murders are urban felons knocking off other urban felons.

But that's a sociological statement, and it's much easier to just blame a piece of metal and wood or plastic.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

• Quote

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"most murders are urban felons knocking off other urban felons."

Aha, not being an 'urban felon' myself, I have very little to fear, ergo, I don't need a gun.

But hey, I don't want to stop you from protecting yourself either.

Have some frosty frothys (I already have)....its friday.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Kennedy 0]

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Have some frosty frothys (I already have)....its friday.

I'd love to, but it's just after 10:00am here, and I've got a ton of stuff to do today.

However, I'll be taking that advice later on today, I GAR-on-tee.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I've already done a tonne of stuff, but you have to maintain priorities, singularity of purpose, dedication to the cause, focus on the mission, etc..

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[blitzkrieg 0]

you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

[freethefly 6]

Happiness is a warm gun, bang bang, shoot shoot
Happiness is a warm gun, bang bang, shoot shoot
When I hold you in my hand and I feel my finger
upon your trigger
I know nobody can do me no harm
because
Happiness is a warm gun

Gotta love those Beatles
Ban the banning of guns
Support the right to bare arms and arm bears
Gun control is being able to hit your target
Peace through superior firepower
I love the furry critters of the forest. They taste great with potatoes and gravy
Never bring a knife to a gunfight
Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns
Ted Nugent For President

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young