juanesky 0 #151 November 17, 2004 Apparently you were not here (SC) while that was being "debated: over here. I did personally stated that he should have answered those questions, otherwise he was a war criminal. Many in here stated that as well. And as far as war operation you seem to have no idea how much effort and stress is dealt by the troops trying to accomodate reporters among them. Still, the issue is that it is being dealt with by the military, and if it merits punishment it will be done and the reporters are among the troops. Those are facts. If you have issues with people stating something you don't like, guess what, you deal with that. I personally have issues with people stating false loyalty, particulary when they embrace US citizenship, but their hearts are in their native land...."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #152 November 17, 2004 QuoteAnd as far as war operation you seem to have no idea how much effort and stress is dealt by the troops trying to accomodate reporters among them. Still, the issue is that it is being dealt with by the military, and if it merits punishment it will be done and the reporters are among the troops. You'd be surprised. I know that many soldiers have lost their lives trying to protect reporters' lives. Some of them stood in the path of the bullet for them. And paid the ultimate price. QuoteIf you have issues with people stating something you don't like, guess what, you deal with that. It was my (personal) perspective that I had no issue with anyone stating anything with which I did not agree. I'm sorry you took it that way. QuoteI personally have issues with people stating false loyalty, particulary when they embrace US citizenship, but their hearts are in their native land.... WTF are you to state where my loyalty is? Who the fuck died and made you god? I'll tell you what: if you and I ever get to share the same load... and your chest strap is misrouted... I would tell you so! With a friendly smile on my face! And you would do the same. And we'd buy each other a beer once on the ground. But please, DO NOT JUDGE ME based on my roots. They are strong indeed. And you have roots too... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #153 November 17, 2004 QuoteWe should punish those who commit acts of murder or terror, but a global pre-emptive policy of military action is the wrong path. So in your opinion we should only use military action as a defensive solution? May be we should do some preemptive ass kissing as sKerry recommends... QuoteI wonder how much we don’t see. Exactly. Some see things from one view; try looking at it from the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #154 November 17, 2004 Cut it out, both of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #155 November 17, 2004 We were just foreplaying... Were we? Yes we were "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #156 November 17, 2004 I am not judging you. I stated simply an opinion. I have dealt with this many times, and that has not meant acting upon those issues, I accept the facts. As far as the jumping, all I care that everyone is safe, hence got a coach rating. I don't care about politics in the DZ at all. I am just curious as to what in my post came across me being a deity"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #157 November 17, 2004 That's all I gotta say... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #158 November 17, 2004 Alright folks, listen up. Raise your hand if you were there and know exactly what happened? Ok...don't see any hands raised. Now raise your hand if you want to tell those Marines that they shouldn't protect themselves when they think its prudent. Alrighty... Now, raise your hand if you think we should keep the fucking media from second guessing the grunts on the ground. Simply put, this thread is disgusting. No one here was there, and all of these arm-chair quaterbacks are second guessing the actions taken in combat due to a reporter's news story. If something wrong was done, the military's courts should take care of it. Its not every citizen's place to nanny the Marines on the ground. Actually, hell, if you want to nanny the Marines, go buy some sunglasses and sunscreen, go over there and do it, if you get shot and killed, your problem.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #159 November 17, 2004 QuoteLets kill some innocent people for things others have done. I think terrorist think like that. I was hopping we were better. Maybe you’re right and I am wrong. At what point has it been established that the guy the Marine shot was "innocent people"? I thought the Marines were going through a building from which this guy and his buddies were engaged in sniper attacks! "Innocent"?! -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #160 November 17, 2004 Quote[What about intentionally bombing and killing the civilian inhabitants of large cities in order to convince the country to surrender? Prove that we INTENTIONALLY TARGETED CIVILIANS and I might give your point some credence.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #161 November 17, 2004 I think Kev is referring to a different war, a different set of circumstances, I think he's referring to Dresden, Koln, Nagasaki, Hiroshima etc. Wow, busy thread, I don't think there is much more to be said about this apalling, regrettable incident. I say regrettable as it will make the fight to remove the troublemakers from Iraq all the harder. I fear the insurgents in Mosul, Baquba, Samarra etc will be even more galvanised to slug it out. Not really much incentive to surrender if you face electrocution, ritual humiliation, and/or summary execution, or at least thats the way the insurgency's propoganda will paint it. This incident will cost more pain to both the coalition and the civilians, whichever way you look at it, this is not good. Its not the first time that embarassment (of this type, in this conflict) like this has ocurred, its the first time its been filmed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4018171.stm -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #162 November 17, 2004 QuoteYou couldn't find any link? Hmm, so weird, since you have some computer experience background according to your claims, That computer background being a bachelor degree in computer science plus CCNP & CCDP Cisco Certifications... God, why are you always questioning my educational background, you must believe yourself very smart . Quote but still can help you find a few. Soldier sentenced to 1 year in Iraq prisoner abuse BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Spec. Jeremy Sivits received the maximum sentence Wednesday for his role in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal as part of a plea deal with prosecutors that leaves him open to testify against other soldiers charged in the mistreatment of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison. The summary court martial. Maximum punishment is 30 days. Officers don’t go to summary court martials, because, one, they can’t be confined in a summary court martial. It’s generally considered for minor disciplinary-type procedures, minor military-type offenses; UA, unauthorized absence, for example, smart-mouth at your commander, et cetera. By posting those links you are further proving my points. Did you even read the content of those links? I bet not, if so you would realize that the last one talks about a trial that will start next year and therefore, DUH, there is no veredict. See, we are trying to have intelligent discussion here, and the least you could do when you join those discussions is first to not attack the poster or at least not make stupid remarks about his/her educational background. How many times have i made you wrong? don´t you get tired? And also, do some research before posting something, it will do wonders for your credibility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #163 November 17, 2004 QuoteProve that we INTENTIONALLY TARGETED CIVILIANS and I might give your point some credence. If what you mean is INTENTIONALLY TARGETED ONLY CIVILIANS i would point out some scandals at Abu Grahib (remember than beetwen 70% and 90% of the prisoners were picked randomly from the streets) If you mean it in the broader sense, what about this link: http://pages.zdnet.com/trimb/id69.html Surely you don´t think that everybody at the restaurant was a terrorist, right? In any case the bombs landed 100 yards away in a building block killing many civilian. If you drop a bomb where civilians are, you are targetting civilians, it doesn´t matter if there is terrorists or Saddam Hussein and family as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeordieSkydiver 0 #164 November 17, 2004 QuoteAlright folks, listen up. Raise your hand if you were there and know exactly what happened? Ok...don't see any hands raised. Now raise your hand if you want to tell those Marines that they shouldn't protect themselves when they think its prudent. Alrighty... Now, raise your hand if you think we should keep the fucking media from second guessing the grunts on the ground. Simply put, this thread is disgusting. No one here was there, and all of these arm-chair quaterbacks are second guessing the actions taken in combat due to a reporter's news story. If something wrong was done, the military's courts should take care of it. Its not every citizen's place to nanny the Marines on the ground. Actually, hell, if you want to nanny the Marines, go buy some sunglasses and sunscreen, go over there and do it, if you get shot and killed, your problem. Well said aggie Dave, thats pretty much what I've been saying from the start. Lee _______________________________ In a world full of people, only some want to fly, is that not crazy? http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #165 November 17, 2004 Quote[Surely you don´t think that everybody at the restaurant was a terrorist, right? In any case the bombs landed 100 yards away in a building block killing many civilian. If you drop a bomb where civilians are, you are targetting civilians, it doesn´t matter if there is terrorists or Saddam Hussein and family as well. Not to put too fine a point on it, but.... BULLSHIT Again (and again and again and again), get at least SOME sort of understanding about how the military operates before you start making accusations that you don't understand.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #166 November 17, 2004 QuoteAnother newsflash: We started the war. If they don't play by "our" rules, nobody but us thinks it's their fault. And that matters because someday we may have to cooperate with all these people. Worse yet, we may need them to cooperate with us. Wendy W. Word. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #167 November 17, 2004 It is not how military works the concept that i have problems with. If Irak had attacked the U.S. i could try to understand what some people call collateral damage. However, remember that the U.S is there to free the Iraquis and set a democracy (or at least it was last week), not to kill them. To put it in other words The U.S changes unilateraly the government of a country The U.S invades and ocupy a sovereign country Collateral damage or innocent civilians casualties steadily grow day by day. The U.S have the moral high ground. The U.S expects to be praised for saving the world from a non existent threat. It just doesn´t make sense, either you have the moral high ground and don´t kill civilians no matter what, or this is full war, and you are a big bad ocupying force. Take your choice, but be consistent, and of course you cannot have it both ways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #168 November 17, 2004 Quote It just doesn´t make sense, either you have the moral high ground and don´t kill civilians no matter what, Again you show that you don't understand - there is NO way to guarantee that there will be no casualties outside of the combatants. Quote or this is full war, and you are a big bad ocupying force. Take your choice, but be consistent, and of course you cannot have it both ways. If the elected Iraqui government tells us to leave and we do not, THEN we are an occupying force. And as always, you twist your words to make the coalition forces look as bad as possible.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #169 November 17, 2004 There is no charge of murder for some reason, there was none, yet you still want more time in jail. You are so biased and hateful to anything US, that it just overflows, you insist in murder charges, and still you have no basic notion about law (where do you get your random 20 years for the offence at hand?). Let me explain this, a lawsuit is someone filing a suit against you, it is no criminal court, no charges are filed, the plaintiffs are seeking a reward-action for a wrong done. Now if you meant Criminal charges as in indicments, and posterior guilty verdicts, then that is another ball game. QuoteI just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? The hardest has been death by execution. Quote BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Spec. Jeremy Sivits received the maximum sentence Wednesday for his role in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal as part of a plea deal with prosecutors that leaves him open to testify against other soldiers charged in the mistreatment of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison. Here is one person. Quote Army Specialist Megan Ambuhl has become the third military police reservist and fourth U.S. soldier convicted over Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse. For standing by while abuse occurred and failing to intervene or report it, Ambuhl was convicted on Oct. 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay. Additional charges brought against Ambuhl but dropped under the pretrial agreement had included allegations of conspiracy, maltreatment, and indecent acts. In addition to having the charges reduced, Ambuhl was subjected to a summary court martial under which any imprisonment that might have been imposed would have been limited to thirty days Here is another person, she was convicted of not intervening or not reporting the ABUSE. QuoteFORT BRAGG, North Carolina (CNN) -- The commander of the 18th Airborne Corps on Monday referred Pfc. Lynndie England to trial by general court-martial, the corps announced. England faces 19 charges including conspiracy and assault in connection with the mistreatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad. She has not been tried yet, just charged... QuoteBALTIMORE - The wife of an Army reservist sentenced to prison for abusing prisoners in Iraq said she knows her husband was wrong, but she also blames higher-ranking officials who "sit behind the curtains" for the abuse. Martha Frederick, wife of Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick, said the eight-year sentence he received Thursday for his role in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal will force her family to "endure hardships and many sacrifices." I agree with the fact that we can not have an intelligent discussion, particulary after you are unable to get the facts straight. You really impressed me a bachelor's in computer science and not being able to find these links at all? Is that true or you just simply did not want to bother searching?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #170 November 17, 2004 QuoteAgain you show that you don't understand - there is NO way to guarantee that there will be no casualties outside of the combatants. Quote No, it is you who don´t understand. there is a BIG BIG diference beetwen not being able to guarantee no casualties outside of the combatants and droping 4 bombs in a restaurant full of civilians only because some faulty intelligence report said SH was there. And if you don´t see a clear diference, i guess you will never understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #171 November 17, 2004 QuoteThere is no charge of murder for some reason, there was none, yet you still want more time in jail. Dude, get your facts straight. Out of those people randomly picked up from the street, many of them were tortured, and some of them died because of the torture. QuoteThe hardest has been death by execution. Are you telling me that someone has been executed over criminal charges in Abu Grahib. Don´t make me laugh. (unless you are speaking of Iraquis being executed) None of the links you have provided shows a condemn for torturing or murdering. Are you going to say now that it didn´t happen. [tongue in cheek] But it is on video [/tongue in cheek] And for sure not any of the sentences reflect the severity of the actions. QuoteI agree with the fact that we can not have an intelligent discussion, particulary after you are unable to get the facts straight. It is you have proven over and over in your posts that you do not take the slightest effort to get your facts right, but nice try though. QuoteYou really impressed me a bachelor's in computer science and not being able to find these links at all? Is that true or you just simply did not want to bother searching? Tipical response of a computer Whuffo. You don´t learn in college how to surf the net. If in doubt go to your nearest college and ask. Anyway, the links that you hae posted don´t prove your point, they prove my point. I wonder if you chose them randomly... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites juanesky 0 #172 November 17, 2004 Quote I just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? Please, do make me wrong, and tell me that there is actually someone going to be in jail for 20+ years for that. Strike 1. Doesn't it bother you that you are not even able to "find" a single link to these claims? Strike 2 Apparently doesn't phase you that you have no proof of murder, but yet you want to convict them of murder?. Strike 3 Once more you fail to see the difference between "LAWSUIT" and CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS. Once you give me a hint that you know what you are talking about, we can continue, until then, carry on..."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites juanesky 0 #173 November 17, 2004 Quote Dude, get your facts straight. Out of those people randomly picked up from the street, many of them were tortured, and some of them died because of the torture. Again, you don;t know these facts. The victims were PRISONERS, hence the term PRISONER ABUSE. QuoteThe hardest has been death by execution. QuoteAre you telling me that someone has been executed over criminal charges in Abu Grahib. Don´t make me laugh. (unless you are speaking of Iraquis being executed) None of the links you have provided shows a condemn for torturing or murdering. Are you going to say now that it didn´t happen. [tongue in cheek] But it is on video [/tongue in cheek] And for sure not any of the sentences reflect the severity of the actions. You were basically just wanting to know what is the hardest sentence from a court martial, that was the response, it does not apply to this particular case though.. You need to make up your mind, first you wanted to find out if any one has been charged condemned, then you fail to see how many are still waiting for trial. One got 8 years, the Staff SGT, another got 1 year, another got 30 days, and there are few more waiting for trial. I guess that is not enough for your reversed facts. There has been no murder charges, after the lengthy investigation. Quote It is you have proven over and over in your posts that you do not take the slightest effort to get your facts right, but nice try though. Yo need to read yours again, you asked if there has been anyone "Charged" and sentenced....I responded there have. What we don't coincide are the murder charges and your arbitrary 20+ years sentence, based on the facts that you don't seem to know basics of rule of law... Quote Tipical response of a computer Whuffo. You don´t learn in college how to surf the net. If in doubt go to your nearest college and ask. Anyway, the links that you hae posted don´t prove your point, they prove my point. I wonder if you chose them randomly... Really? Well, let's ask some posters in here and let them contribute on the issue. Yet it is sad indeed that this thread is actually getting more attention instead of the one for Mrs. Hassan. Where is you outrage there?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #174 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteAgain you show that you don't understand - there is NO way to guarantee that there will be no casualties outside of the combatants. Quote No, it is you who don´t understand. there is a BIG BIG diference beetwen not being able to guarantee no casualties outside of the combatants and droping 4 bombs in a restaurant full of civilians only because some faulty intelligence report said SH was there. And if you don´t see a clear diference, i guess you will never understand. Make up your mind... did we target a building several hundred yards away, or did we target the restaurant? Shall I refer you back to your original post? QuoteIt just doesn´t make sense, either you have the moral high ground and don´t kill civilians no matter what And my answer to you is - there is no way to guarantee that there will be no innocent persons hurt or killed in a war. If you think that there is, then you understand nothing about war or the conduct of war.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #175 November 17, 2004 QuoteAlright folks, listen up. Raise your hand if you were there and know exactly what happened? Ok...don't see any hands raised. Now raise your hand if you want to tell those Marines that they shouldn't protect themselves when they think its prudent. Alrighty... Now, raise your hand if you think we should keep the fucking media from second guessing the grunts on the ground. Simply put, this thread is disgusting. No one here was there, and all of these arm-chair quaterbacks are second guessing the actions taken in combat due to a reporter's news story. If something wrong was done, the military's courts should take care of it. Its not every citizen's place to nanny the Marines on the ground. Actually, hell, if you want to nanny the Marines, go buy some sunglasses and sunscreen, go over there and do it, if you get shot and killed, your problem. Dave, one of the things that's missing here is critical thinking. Video is provocative, as is photography. It always gets a strong reaction. There are two factors here that are being overlooked: 1. We're only seeing the camera's viewpoint. 2. We're not seeing everything that led up to that moment, just the moment itself. It's the ultimate "out of context" observation. The hearing will clear things up. In the meantime believe only half of what you see, and none of what you hear. mh . 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Botellines 0 #171 November 17, 2004 QuoteThere is no charge of murder for some reason, there was none, yet you still want more time in jail. Dude, get your facts straight. Out of those people randomly picked up from the street, many of them were tortured, and some of them died because of the torture. QuoteThe hardest has been death by execution. Are you telling me that someone has been executed over criminal charges in Abu Grahib. Don´t make me laugh. (unless you are speaking of Iraquis being executed) None of the links you have provided shows a condemn for torturing or murdering. Are you going to say now that it didn´t happen. [tongue in cheek] But it is on video [/tongue in cheek] And for sure not any of the sentences reflect the severity of the actions. QuoteI agree with the fact that we can not have an intelligent discussion, particulary after you are unable to get the facts straight. It is you have proven over and over in your posts that you do not take the slightest effort to get your facts right, but nice try though. QuoteYou really impressed me a bachelor's in computer science and not being able to find these links at all? Is that true or you just simply did not want to bother searching? Tipical response of a computer Whuffo. You don´t learn in college how to surf the net. If in doubt go to your nearest college and ask. Anyway, the links that you hae posted don´t prove your point, they prove my point. I wonder if you chose them randomly... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #172 November 17, 2004 Quote I just did and couldn´t find a link where it says that anyone has been charged for torturing and murder innocent people. I mean, in a civil lawsuit that would be somewhere beetwen 20+ years and death sentence, supposedly a military lawsuit is much severe, right? Well, can you tell me what the hardest sentence has been? Please, do make me wrong, and tell me that there is actually someone going to be in jail for 20+ years for that. Strike 1. Doesn't it bother you that you are not even able to "find" a single link to these claims? Strike 2 Apparently doesn't phase you that you have no proof of murder, but yet you want to convict them of murder?. Strike 3 Once more you fail to see the difference between "LAWSUIT" and CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS. Once you give me a hint that you know what you are talking about, we can continue, until then, carry on..."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #173 November 17, 2004 Quote Dude, get your facts straight. Out of those people randomly picked up from the street, many of them were tortured, and some of them died because of the torture. Again, you don;t know these facts. The victims were PRISONERS, hence the term PRISONER ABUSE. QuoteThe hardest has been death by execution. QuoteAre you telling me that someone has been executed over criminal charges in Abu Grahib. Don´t make me laugh. (unless you are speaking of Iraquis being executed) None of the links you have provided shows a condemn for torturing or murdering. Are you going to say now that it didn´t happen. [tongue in cheek] But it is on video [/tongue in cheek] And for sure not any of the sentences reflect the severity of the actions. You were basically just wanting to know what is the hardest sentence from a court martial, that was the response, it does not apply to this particular case though.. You need to make up your mind, first you wanted to find out if any one has been charged condemned, then you fail to see how many are still waiting for trial. One got 8 years, the Staff SGT, another got 1 year, another got 30 days, and there are few more waiting for trial. I guess that is not enough for your reversed facts. There has been no murder charges, after the lengthy investigation. Quote It is you have proven over and over in your posts that you do not take the slightest effort to get your facts right, but nice try though. Yo need to read yours again, you asked if there has been anyone "Charged" and sentenced....I responded there have. What we don't coincide are the murder charges and your arbitrary 20+ years sentence, based on the facts that you don't seem to know basics of rule of law... Quote Tipical response of a computer Whuffo. You don´t learn in college how to surf the net. If in doubt go to your nearest college and ask. Anyway, the links that you hae posted don´t prove your point, they prove my point. I wonder if you chose them randomly... Really? Well, let's ask some posters in here and let them contribute on the issue. Yet it is sad indeed that this thread is actually getting more attention instead of the one for Mrs. Hassan. Where is you outrage there?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #174 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteAgain you show that you don't understand - there is NO way to guarantee that there will be no casualties outside of the combatants. Quote No, it is you who don´t understand. there is a BIG BIG diference beetwen not being able to guarantee no casualties outside of the combatants and droping 4 bombs in a restaurant full of civilians only because some faulty intelligence report said SH was there. And if you don´t see a clear diference, i guess you will never understand. Make up your mind... did we target a building several hundred yards away, or did we target the restaurant? Shall I refer you back to your original post? QuoteIt just doesn´t make sense, either you have the moral high ground and don´t kill civilians no matter what And my answer to you is - there is no way to guarantee that there will be no innocent persons hurt or killed in a war. If you think that there is, then you understand nothing about war or the conduct of war.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #175 November 17, 2004 QuoteAlright folks, listen up. Raise your hand if you were there and know exactly what happened? Ok...don't see any hands raised. Now raise your hand if you want to tell those Marines that they shouldn't protect themselves when they think its prudent. Alrighty... Now, raise your hand if you think we should keep the fucking media from second guessing the grunts on the ground. Simply put, this thread is disgusting. No one here was there, and all of these arm-chair quaterbacks are second guessing the actions taken in combat due to a reporter's news story. If something wrong was done, the military's courts should take care of it. Its not every citizen's place to nanny the Marines on the ground. Actually, hell, if you want to nanny the Marines, go buy some sunglasses and sunscreen, go over there and do it, if you get shot and killed, your problem. Dave, one of the things that's missing here is critical thinking. Video is provocative, as is photography. It always gets a strong reaction. There are two factors here that are being overlooked: 1. We're only seeing the camera's viewpoint. 2. We're not seeing everything that led up to that moment, just the moment itself. It's the ultimate "out of context" observation. The hearing will clear things up. In the meantime believe only half of what you see, and none of what you hear. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next Page 7 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Guest #175 November 17, 2004 QuoteAlright folks, listen up. Raise your hand if you were there and know exactly what happened? Ok...don't see any hands raised. Now raise your hand if you want to tell those Marines that they shouldn't protect themselves when they think its prudent. Alrighty... Now, raise your hand if you think we should keep the fucking media from second guessing the grunts on the ground. Simply put, this thread is disgusting. No one here was there, and all of these arm-chair quaterbacks are second guessing the actions taken in combat due to a reporter's news story. If something wrong was done, the military's courts should take care of it. Its not every citizen's place to nanny the Marines on the ground. Actually, hell, if you want to nanny the Marines, go buy some sunglasses and sunscreen, go over there and do it, if you get shot and killed, your problem. Dave, one of the things that's missing here is critical thinking. Video is provocative, as is photography. It always gets a strong reaction. There are two factors here that are being overlooked: 1. We're only seeing the camera's viewpoint. 2. We're not seeing everything that led up to that moment, just the moment itself. It's the ultimate "out of context" observation. The hearing will clear things up. In the meantime believe only half of what you see, and none of what you hear. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
