Do the lefties here really want Michael Moore representing them?

[Muenkel 0]

Just curious. He seems to more hated than liked in the U.S. (I could be wrong, nothing scientific here).

_________________________________________
Chris

[AggieDave 6]

Most of the liberals I've talked to think MMoore is an ass that really hurt their cause this election.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[slug 1]

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Most of the liberals I've talked to think MMoore is an ass that really hurt their cause this election.

What election would that be?
Do you consider "the liberals you talked to any kind of scientific survey. How many you talk to? MM did his thing now your doing yours. So what? Is your opinion any better than his.

Your young enough, big enough, bad enough to go fight the war on terrorism show us the walk instead of the talk.

Lets ask PJ his opinion

R.I.P.

[TheAnvil 0]

I would hope not.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[AggieDave 6]

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go fight the war on terrorism show us the walk instead of the talk.

I tired, but due to my knee the USMC tore up my PLC contract. So I'm going to be a cop.

Sounds like you have something against people who are patriotic and those who are dedicated to protecting your ass.

Nice position you have.


So you want me to drop out of school and hold a true survey with atleast 1000 people at a location that has a lot of liberals like a Starbucks? Ok, when I wake up I'm off to the register's office to drop out of school then to Kinkos to make a 1500 copies of a questionare.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MC208B 0]

are you an American ex-patriot? At least you have a appropriate name slug

[quade 4]

Michael Moore doesn't represent me. I never voted for him.

That said, I didn't vote for Woodward and Bernstein either but I'm glad they did and continue to do what they do.

Any true democracy -needs- the fourth estate prodding and poking at the government to keep it honest.

Lemme tell ya, there are a lot of folks that are worried that the government is going to take their guns away and those people fight tenaciously to keep them. Maybe that's a legitimate concern for those folks.

However, if you really want to see the signs your society is going straight to hell, it's when they start rounding up the dissenting media.

You'll notice that the citizens of Iraq, even before the fall of Saddam, didn't seem to have -any- problem getting AK-47s and RPGs, but they sure as hell didn't have a free press with any dissenting views.

So, me, personally, I dont' need an AK-47 or RPG launcher to stem the tide of governmental control. As long as Michael Moore and people like hism exist, I'm pretty comfortable that we haven't gone too far -- yet.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

Gotta agree with Quade - As soon as the government (not consumers) directly takes action to censor a Michael Moore, or a Rush Limbaugh, or a Howard Stern (that should cover the triangle well enough) then we should worry.

But I wouldn't prioritize it over or under guns, just symptoms of the same type of problem.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Muenkel 0]

I also agree with Quade to a degree. I am not in anyway for censorship. I just wish people would use their freedom of speech and tell the truth.

There's a reason libel and slander are against the law.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Unstable 9]

Quade, your response has really got me thinking about this. I have a knee-jerk reaction here.

I agree that a fourth Element, the press, with their dissenting views, is absolutely critical to keeping and maintaining the amount of freedoms we enjoy. We have a wonderful system of checks-and-balances on capitol hill, with the three branches of government keeping themselves in check, and in a way, the press keeps the personalities in check - It's a beautiful system.

Now what does this have to do with Michael Moore (MM)? IMHO, not a whole heck of a lot. To call this man a journalist, is an insult to the profession. I may not be a journalist myself, but as a Statistician, I know that his use of sources and his logic of causal relationships was absolutely appalling in almost all of his work. A journalist delivers either abstract or object-oriented information - MM simply draws his own conclusions and runs with them. Any legitimate news media organization, even the most bias, would not allow this propaganda to be aired. Hey, this my humble opinion of Michael Moore, and I could ramble off for hours about his inability to use basic quantitative logic...

Bill O'Reilly makes an interesting point of this in his book, Who's Looking Out for You . As Quade pointed out, the Media is a valuable instituting that keeps our government honest. However, it's no secret today that media has become a Bias entity, in many cases it exists for the sole purpose of spreading certain (more often than not, Left-wing) ideas of what our government should be or how we should interact with our officials. IMHO, Media Today, as well as MM, has lost much of it's objective nature which kept the government fair in the first place. It's a Shame...

=========Shaun ==========

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Just curious. He seems to more hated than liked in the U.S. (I could be wrong, nothing scientific here).

I want to state that I was hating him probably before most people here. My brother was trying to exhort me to read "Stupid White Men" (like I was gonna bother reading some piece of trash that had a title that right off the bat insults me). I picked it up, read the absolute moronic drivel that he had to say about gun ownership, and told my brother that here was a moron author who had nothing to say that I needed to know, thanks anyway. And that was well before I we all were given "Bowling for Columbine" -- it was some time early in 2002, I believe, and it was the first time I heard of Moore. Amazing, I had come to loathe him within about five minutes of ever becoming aware of his existence!

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Your young enough, big enough, bad enough to go fight the war on terrorism show us the walk instead of the talk.

Lets ask PJ his opinion

R.I.P.

Your constant goading and taunting and singling me out for annoyance makes you unworthy of my opinion.

Suffice it to say that if my opinion is given, it will not ever be because you sought it.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Gotta agree with Quade - As soon as the government (not consumers) directly takes action to censor a Michael Moore, or a Rush Limbaugh, or a Howard Stern (that should cover the triangle well enough) then we should worry.

But I wouldn't prioritize it over or under guns, just symptoms of the same type of problem.

So how did the notion of the GOVERNMENT censoring Michael Moore enter this discussion?

Quade implied that the government is cracking down on "dissenting media." It is not. There would be civil war in this country if it did. The day we have a Michael Moore put in jail for saying negative things (not libelous, just negative, because libel can be punished) is the day we'll have an uprising, and rightly so. I may have voted for Bush, but I wouldn't support his silencing freedom of speech and the press.

But Michael Moore is NOT "the press." He is not a reporter, he is a propagandist. There is a gargantuan difference. (H.P. Lovecraft would call it "cyclopean"! )

Moore is no more important to our ability to get news and information from clear, unbiased sources than Morton Downey Jr. or Jerry Springer are.

(Remember Downey? The schmuck who started it all?)

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[AndyMan 7]

What on earth makes you think he represents anyone?

As far as I know, he's just a guy who made a movie that seemed to strike a both a positive and negative chord with a lot of people.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AggieDave 6]

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As far as I know, he's just a guy who made a movie that seemed to strike a both a positive and negative chord with a lot of people

And sometimes a positive and negative chord in the same person.


For instance, I respect his right to freedom of speech. I still think he's an asshat spreading lies, though.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wmw999 2,600]

Chris, Moore doesn't represent liberals; he filmed his interpretation and view of events in a way that some liberals found to be valid, and that many conservatives didn't. That can be said (reversing liberal/conservative) about many film makers.

Personally, I wonder why conservatives want Rush Limbaugh representing them . If your first reaction is "he doesn't, and why on earth would someone think that one extreme person represents a whole range of political opinion" then consider that most "lefties" (ya know, that's not a nice term either) feel the same way about MM. Even if they thought his film was entertaining.

Just because people disagree doesn't make them less complex -- it just means they disagree in that way.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"then consider that most "lefties" (ya know, that's not a nice term either) feel the same way about MM"

Forgive him Wendy, he's just a Redneck, he doesn't know a liberal (centre) from a socialist (left).


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1147249#1147249

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Bill O'Reilly makes an interesting point of this in his book, Who's Looking Out for You . As Quade pointed out, the Media is a valuable instituting that keeps our government honest. However, it's no secret today that media has become a Bias entity, in many cases it exists for the sole purpose of spreading certain (more often than not, Left-wing) ideas of what our government should be or how we should interact with our officials. IMHO, Media Today, as well as MM, has lost much of it's objective nature which kept the government fair in the first place. It's a Shame...

You really shouldn't use O'Reilly as the bellweather on media studies. He is also quite biased - pot calling colors there.

The fact is the media has always had a bias. In earlier years it was heavily influenced to promote strong nationalistic images during WWII by the gov't and the war department, during the McCarthy years it promoted a feeling of paranoia, etc. There has always been someone with an agenda when it comes to journalism and entertainment. It's never been fully objective - even some of the biggest names in broadcast history were very biased, but history has painted a different picture of them. Even Murrow had an agenda - go back and pull up his news reports and watch them and you will see it.

The media has come a bit more into its own in the last 25 years. They have empowered themselves. There are those that promote moderate opinions all the time, yet they don't make headlines because they are doing nothing wrong.

Nope - MM doesn't represent me. Then again, there isn't anyone in the media or entertainment field that does. However, ignorant people on both sides love to claim that a particular person represents the opposite view point because it is often extreme and inflamatory and they feel it could illustrate the other side as ignorant.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ltdiver 3]

So, should THIS have been censored then?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Shotgun 1]

Hmm, I guess I would be considered a leftie???

But no, I don't want Michael Moore representing me... And if you think that he represents anyone other than himself, well I think you're misunderstanding him.

[Muenkel 0]

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Forgive him Wendy, he's just a Redneck, he doesn't know a liberal (centre) from a socialist (left).

NacMac, my buddy! I know you're from the other side of the pond, so I understand you being confused as to who would be a redneck. There's no way I could be labeled a redneck. I live in Massachusetts! I grew up on Long Island! I have all my teeth...and they're straight! No pickup truck with a gun rack! Never been in a trailer home in my life. Never dated my sister or cousin. Nope, no redneck blood in me.

_________________________________________
Chris

[AggieDave 6]

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so I understand you being confused as to who would be a redneck. There's no way I could be labeled a redneck. I live in Massachusetts! I grew up on Long Island! I have all my teeth...and they're straight! No pickup truck with a gun rack! Never been in a trailer home in my life. Never dated my sister or cousin. Nope, no redneck blood in me

Apparently you're confused as well, what you described is known as white trash. Redneck is definately different. Redneck is a glorious lack of sophistication, be it momentary or permenant, everyone has a little bit of redneck in them.

For instance, fixing your car/truck with rigged parts, duct tape, clothes hangers, etc is a sign of being a redneck. It might be a new BMW, but you still pulled off a redneck move, even with a yuppy car.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Muenkel 0]

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For instance, fixing your car/truck with rigged parts, duct tape, clothes hangers, etc is a sign of being a redneck. It might be a new BMW, but you still pulled off a redneck move, even with a yuppy car.

Thanks for clarifying that Dave. But I can honestly say I have never done any of the above things you mentioned either.

_________________________________________
Chris

[AggieDave 6]

I'm willing to bet you've got a *little* redneck in ya! Everyone does, even John Kerry does I'm willing to bet.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm willing to bet you've got a *little* redneck in ya! Everyone does

It always seems to happen on those days when I forget to wear sunscreen on my neck.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over