storm1977 0 #51 November 16, 2004 QuoteDon't tell them that Matt, they were enjoying the feeding frenzy. Now they will be filling up at Chevron Texaco (just an example)stations and wondering where the stuff they are pouring into their SUVs actually came from. You can go to the Dept of Energy and find out very easily where all the oil from US companies comes from... Been that way for years. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #52 November 16, 2004 So who bought, transported, refined, and sold the black market black stuff? And did they do it knowing it was hookey?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #53 November 17, 2004 QuoteI'm not expected to be responsible for my grandfather's business dealings almost 70 years ago. Anuone who thinks I am is nuts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Becareful... some people in this country would have you believe you are responsible for everything your ancestors DID.. off topic but this is why affirmative action is not only wrong but should be illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #54 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteBecareful... some people in this country would have you believe you are responsible for everything your ancestors DID.. If you avail yourself of those benefits...... Get serious...tired of having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. What you're suggesting is ridiculous. I'm supposed to denounce my family's holdings because of how they came by it? If someone has a legitimate claim let them go through the proper channels. I think VW had to pay out a few years back for using Nazi slave labor.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #55 November 17, 2004 QuoteGet serious...tired of having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. lol, now that is funny. QuoteWhat you're suggesting is ridiculous. I'm supposed to denounce my family's holdings because of how they came by it? Well, let's see. Say my family got its money by financing the murder of 1 million people. I am aware of this. Now I turn around and use that money. Yeah, that says something about you as a person. That says that you really don't see too much wrong with how the money was made. If your grandfather was paid a million dollars to tamper with a parachute to kill a guy. Would you accept your share of the inheritence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #56 November 17, 2004 ***Let's see the source of this information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's has all been discussed here before*** The US funded the terrorist group Unita in Africa well into the 1990's. There is congressional testimony about funding given to them. This is only one example. I suggest reading 9-11 by Noam Chomsky and "Good Muslim, Bad Muslim" by Mahmood Mamdani, there are plenty of cases of the US funding terrorism documented by these authors.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #57 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteBecareful... some people in this country would have you believe you are responsible for everything your ancestors DID.. If you avail yourself of those benefits...... So the Kennedys' should denounce their fortune too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #58 November 17, 2004 QuoteSo the Kennedys' should denounce their fortune too? I believe that the use of some of that money speaks volumes about them as well...yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #59 November 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo the Kennedys' should denounce their fortune too? I believe that the use of some of that money speaks volumes about them as well...yes. Suppose they did something good with that money, like using it to feed starving children. Would you still have the same opinion? If so, who should they give it to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #60 November 17, 2004 QuoteSuppose they did something good with that money, like using it to feed starving children. Would you still have the same opinion? If they came out and acknowledged that all or part of their family wealth was obtained through collaboration with the nazi regime and then used a significant chunk of their wealth (somewhat proportionate to the wealth created) to do good with. I would think that would be a very powerful statement and would certainly applaud that. Just giving lots of money without that statement to me doesn't qualify. Almost all rich people give heaps of money to charities. It is called a tax write off. The statement would be the differentiating factor in my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #61 November 17, 2004 I disagree with all of this (Surprise Surprise) If my Gandfather made money in some unethical way, it is not my fault and I should not be subject to Punishment on his behalf. Look at that show about John Gotti's Daughter.... THink the house she lives in was paid for with here $$$? Her father ran a crime family, and she is living off the return.... And he is dead. He, i don't think it is right, but the Government has no right to take it away. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #62 November 17, 2004 QuoteHe, i don't think it is right, but the Government has no right to take it away. Uh, yeah they do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #63 November 17, 2004 The government cannot legally punish me for something I have not done. Example: Strange one... If one of a set of conjoined twins murdered someone, he could not be imprisioned if it was proven the other twin was innocent. THe innocent twin could not be punished for the crime he did not commit. Our laws regarding ones innocence overrules the guilty party in this case. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #64 November 17, 2004 > The government cannot legally punish me for something I have not done. Sure they can. They can penalize you (i.e. charge you more money) if you don't contribute to charity, or pay into a 401k, or buy a house. Welcome to the world of incentive-based income taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #65 November 17, 2004 QuoteAlmost all rich people give heaps of money to charities. It is called a tax write off. The statement would be the differentiating factor in my mind. That's funny. If I'm not mistaken giving money to charities doesn't make the wealthy any wealthier. It's a greater loss to give money to charity than it is to simply pay taxes on the money if it were kept. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #66 November 17, 2004 QuoteThat's funny. If I'm not mistaken giving money to charities doesn't make the wealthy any wealthier. It's a greater loss to give money to charity than it is to simply pay taxes on the money if it were kept. You wouldn't know that based on the pre-election screaming about Theresa Heinz Kerry's effective tax rate (because she donated half her income to charity). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #67 November 17, 2004 QuoteThe government cannot legally punish me for something I have not done. If you buy a bunch of stolen property from someone thinking that it's not stolen, and the police find it in your garage, they can and will take it, and they're not going to give you back the money you lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #68 November 18, 2004 I saw/heard an interview yesterday with the guy (cannot remember his name) who ran the oil/food program for several years during that period. He says the US, France, the UK, pretty much EVERYONE knew what was going on, much of it 'approved' under wraps by the very administrations that are now trying to hang this all on the UN as corruption. He says no on e bothered to do anything about it for whatever reasons. Said that the UN should probably open the books on the whole deal, a few within the UN would look bad and probably be dealt with, but more people and certainly the UN as a whole would be exonerated and the fact that the countries that were involved would all likely back down due to their own involvement. Just what I heard TK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #69 November 18, 2004 My GF worked in the Oil For Food Program, directly under Benin Sevon, and didn't know what was going on... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #70 November 18, 2004 QuoteMy GF worked in the Oil For Food Program, directly under Benin Sevon, and didn't know what was going on... Oh, well there you have it then. It must not have happened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #71 November 18, 2004 "Said that the UN should probably open the books on the whole deal, a few within the UN would look bad and probably be dealt with, but more people and certainly the UN as a whole would be exonerated and the fact that the countries that were involved would all likely back down due to their own involvement. " This is my feeling too, as far as I am aware there is an internal enquiry going on in the UN, I'd rather wait till that comes out than go by some half finished or incomplete report, IE one with names and companies removed.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #72 November 18, 2004 Quote> The government cannot legally punish me for something I have not done. Sure they can. They can penalize you (i.e. charge you more money) if you don't contribute to charity, or pay into a 401k, or buy a house. Welcome to the world of incentive-based income taxes. That is not PUNISHING me.... That is rewarding others.... Not the same, but nice try Also, donating to cahrity still cost me money.... It is not effectively saving money. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #73 November 18, 2004 QuoteIf my Gandfather made money in some unethical way, it is not my fault and I should not be subject to Punishment on his behalf. Never talked about punishment. Does say something about you if you decide to use the money. QuoteLook at that show about John Gotti's Daughter.... THink the house she lives in was paid for with here $$$? Her father ran a crime family, and she is living off the return.... And he is dead. And to me that says alot about Gotti's daughter. QuoteHe, i don't think it is right, but the Government has no right to take it away. never said the government should take it away. Just says something about the person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #74 November 18, 2004 You wouldn't know that based on the pre-election screaming about Theresa Heinz Kerry's effective tax rate (because she donated half her income to charity). Not true. She used the existing tax loopholes to get around paying taxes just like most super-rich do. Income can be sheltered in trusts where it remains untouched by taxation until it is spent. In the meantime the value of the trusts continues to rise. 'Charities' are also a favourite dodge of the leftist elite. When most people think of charities they imagine orphanages, school grants, medical foundations, etc. However, in the leftist world of the likes of Theresa Heinz Kerry leftwing political organisations also count as charities. For example, using the Heinz Family Philanthropies and the infamous Tides Foundation, she has been able to channel tax-free funds into anti-American, anti-Israel and even pro-terrorist groups. (One of the beneficiaries of her largess, the Ruckus Society, is planning to disrupt the GOP's New York convention). That Theresa Heinz Kerry has deliberately circumvented the law in the name of charity in order to finance these vicious groups is in itself an immoral act, and one that bears investigating by the IRS http://www.newaus.com.au/theresa_heinz_kerry_print.htmlPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #75 November 18, 2004 >That is not PUNISHING me.... Requiring you to pay more isn't punishing you? So it wouldn't matter if the fine for speeding was $50 or $50,000, it wouldn't be a punishment? Most people see financial penalties as punishments. So does our government, since fines are often part of legal judgements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
