billvon 3,090 #51 November 12, 2004 >1. One is reality, the other is a movie. A halftime show with Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson is not reality; it's not even a depiction of any sort of reality. It's a bunch of people dancing around in bizarre costumes, intending to create a spectacle rather than depict anything. World War II was pretty real, although Saving Private Ryan is just an unusually good depiction of a real event. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #52 November 12, 2004 QuoteThe problem was it was done on a "family" program. Even then I don't personally care...But I understand some parents issues. I understand where you are coming from, but I saw it happen. It went so fast that nobody watching new for sure what had happened. The outrage didn't happen until people knew, from replays and pictures what had happened..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #53 November 12, 2004 >The outrage didn't happen until people knew, from replays and pictures what had happened..... Yeah, and that was perhaps the oddest part of the whole thing. "I think I might be shocked, scandalized and outraged, but I'm just not sure . . . wait, let me get on the net, type "JACKSON BOOB" - no, that just gets Michael Jackson news - "HALFTIME BREAST" - that's better, but no pictures, damn damn . . . "Wait, here's one - whoah! I am shocked, outraged, scandalized! I can't believe I have been exposed to that without my knowledge! Let me see if I can get a blowup . . .Holy cow! Now I'm even more outraged that I was forced to see that!" "But maybe there's another angle . . . gotta go see if there's another angle where you can see the nipple . . . Registration fee for the website? No problem, my credit card is around here somewhere . . ." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #54 November 12, 2004 Quote1. One is reality, the other is a movie. A halftime show with Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson is not reality; it's not even a depiction of any sort of reality. It's a bunch of people dancing around in bizarre costumes, intending to create a spectacle rather than depict anything. World War II was pretty real, although Saving Private Ryan is just an unusually good depiction of a real event. See I knew you would not get it. 1. One was an event that showed a real incident that some people don't think should be on a family TV show. The nudity was REAL, and without a warning to parents. 2. The other event is a movie with actors playing parts where a VISUAL SIMULATION of a death is played out (OK, a lot of them)..No one was actually killed for the movie. If they had actually KILLED someone for the movie then it would be a snuff film and you would be all upset (So would I). One was a pretend event with actors that enacted a real event (Pretty good BTW). The other was nudity on TV...REAL nudity, without a warning to parents And like I said before my only issue was parents could not protect their kids from it SINCE NO ONE KNEW. Parents could prevent their kids from watching SPR by throwing in a Disney movie if they wish....If the Super Bowl gave out a warning I would not have given one fuck about it. Like I said I don't expect you to get it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #55 November 12, 2004 QuoteI understand where you are coming from, but I saw it happen. It went so fast that nobody watching new for sure what had happened. The outrage didn't happen until people knew, from replays and pictures what had happened..... OH, I agree that it was blown out of proportion. But thats what people do....Just look at the kid that supposedly killed himself due to Bush winning the election. And again, in my opinion...It would have been a non issue if they had a warning before the show. It is another case of someone going for shock value, but then getting upset when they get the shock response. Over blown? Yes. Stupid? Yes (from both sides.) But if a few morons didn't go for the shock value...well they would not have gotten it. So who is to blame, the people who over reacted, or the people that started it? Both. But who started it....Thats right, the chick and the tit not the FCC."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #56 November 12, 2004 QuoteYeah, and that was perhaps the oddest part of the whole thing. "I think I might be shocked, scandalized and outraged, but I'm just not sure . . . wait, let me get on the net, type "JACKSON BOOB" - no, that just gets Michael Jackson news - "HALFTIME BREAST" - that's better, but no pictures, damn damn . . . "Wait, here's one - whoah! I am shocked, outraged, scandalized! I can't believe I have been exposed to that without my knowledge! Let me see if I can get a blowup . . .Holy cow! Now I'm even more outraged that I was forced to see that!" "But maybe there's another angle . . . gotta go see if there's another angle where you can see the nipple . . . Registration fee for the website? No problem, my credit card is around here somewhere . . ." Bill for Last Comic Standing......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #57 November 12, 2004 QuoteOH, I agree that it was blown out of proportion. But thats what people do....Just look at the kid that supposedly killed himself due to Bush winning the election. And again, in my opinion...It would have been a non issue if they had a warning before the show. It is another case of someone going for shock value, but then getting upset when they get the shock response. Over blown? Yes. Stupid? Yes (from both sides.) But if a few morons didn't go for the shock value...well they would not have gotten it. So who is to blame, the people who over reacted, or the people that started it? Both. But who started it....Thats right, the chick and the tit not the FCC. What is scary is that MEN are complaining about seeing a breast while they were watching men in tights grabbing eachother's ass and reaching for a ball between legs, pounding into eachother. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #58 November 12, 2004 QuoteWhat is scary is that MEN are complaining about seeing a breast while they were watching men in tights grabbing eachother's ass and reaching for a ball between legs, pounding into each other. ...while commenting to each other about the centerfold in Playboy's latest issue (which, incidently, they only buy for the editorials!) "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #59 November 12, 2004 Quote Over blown? Yes. Stupid? Yes (from both sides.) But if a few morons didn't go for the shock value...well they would not have gotten it. So who is to blame, the people who over reacted, or the people that started it? Shock value huh? What if some people call it pushing the envelope? Once upon a time Lucy had to have a seperate bed from her husband on a tv show. If they happened to be on the same bed, their feet had to touch the floor or they could get fined. Other "morons" that pushed the envelope on TV were Elvis and Jim Morrison. Because of them, we have relxed standards compared to the past. They helped changed the current community standards. Go check out a book on mass communication law and you will find plenty of examples of "morons" that didn't want to be confined anymore. For example - did you know there was no problem with the seven deadly words until George Carlin made a comedy routine out of them? To people in the media, "current community standards" is a joke. It changes so quick and so often that it isn't really a standard. Do you only support pushing the edge in skydiving?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #60 November 13, 2004 Debate in SC We watched SPR last night for the second time, I said OH Fuck 50 times in the first 5 minutes. Yes it was a movies with "special effects" but since I wasn't there I can only imagine it was a depiction of the horror of war that we hear/read about. Compared to the Video what the FUCK difference does the FUCKing audio make. Resume with your circle jerk. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #61 November 13, 2004 QuoteShock value huh? What if some people call it pushing the envelope? You wanna push the envelope, you have to be willing to pay the price for it. QuoteOnce upon a time Lucy had to have a seperate bed from her husband on a tv show. If they happened to be on the same bed, their feet had to touch the floor or they could get fined. Yes, as time moves forward beliefs of what is allowed gets expanded. Thats not new information. The problem is the people who push the edge can't bitch about it when they push it to far and they fall on their face. And when the public gets pissed the government agency that is in charge of that will react. Thats normal. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In this case the action was pushing it to far...You may call them "leaders" and they are...but they are still also morons. QuoteOther "morons" that pushed the envelope on TV were Elvis and Jim Morrison. Actually Elvis didn't push the edge....Ed Sullivan did. QuoteBecause of them, we have relxed standards compared to the past. No, because of them we had reaction and that lead to relaxed standards over time....But even on the Ed Sullivan show Elvis was not filmed from the waist down. You push it to hard...you will get smacked so don't bitch about it. QuoteGo check out a book on mass communication law and you will find plenty of examples of "morons" that didn't want to be confined anymore You mean like Jack Par and "Water Closet"? Dont assume you are the only one to know about a subject....I know plenty about it. We just come from different sides. You don't care about people pushing the edge and subjecting people to things they don't want to see...I want them to push it within the boundries that the law has in place and don't mind when people who break the law get slaped for it...I don't bitch about speeding tickets...I was speeding. You want to blame the cop. QuoteDo you only support pushing the edge in skydiving? Nope I support pushing the edge in everything...But only at a safe pace... You want to blame the cop for giving out tickets."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #62 November 13, 2004 QuoteWe watched SPR last night for the second time, I said OH Fuck 50 times in the first 5 minutes. Yes it was a movies with "special effects" but since I wasn't there I can only imagine it was a depiction of the horror of war that we hear/read about. Compared to the Video what the FUCK difference does the FUCKing audio make. I don't think it was just the audio that made it not get aired....It was the violence as well. All I am saying is I don't care as long as people know what to expect and parents can block their children from it....they could not do that with Janet and the dancing boob."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #63 November 13, 2004 OK, so you're a van guard kind of guy, and you want to expand the limits. So, it could be said you're looking for the edge. Well, when you're looking for the edge of a cliff, do you shuffle your feet and test the ground, or do you run ahead at full speed? If you answer the latter, expect to go over, and suffer the consequences. You can't bitch about it when you go further than people will accept. Elvis never bitched about being shunned from several sectors. Take it like a man.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #64 November 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteWe watched SPR last night for the second time, I said OH Fuck 50 times in the first 5 minutes. Yes it was a movies with "special effects" but since I wasn't there I can only imagine it was a depiction of the horror of war that we hear/read about. Compared to the Video what the FUCK difference does the FUCKing audio make. I don't think it was just the audio that made it not get aired....It was the violence as well. All I am saying is I don't care as long as people know what to expect and parents can block their children from it....they could not do that with Janet and the dancing boob. Agreed 100%, very dumb stunt Wonder what would happen if a guy did that with his ....... you know his.... prick jail time. R.I.P. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #65 November 13, 2004 QuoteIn this case the action was pushing it to far...You may call them "leaders" and they are...but they are still also morons. Interesting - so you feel those that push the edge in skydiving are morons as well? I have recently seen some of your posts saying how much this is needed. QuoteActually Elvis didn't push the edge....Ed Sullivan did. You may want to double check your broadcast history. Sullivan didn't allow Elvis to show his hips on TV, and Sullivan banned Morrison from his show. Ed wanted status quo and those acts made history because they defied the biggest host of the day and the current standards. QuoteYou mean like Jack Par and "Water Closet"? Dont assume you are the only one to know about a subject....I know plenty about it. I'm thinking since this was my major in college and I was in broadcasting that I know just a few things about this area. I was just trying to further educate you. There are some really good books on this topic. QuoteWe just come from different sides. You don't care about people pushing the edge and subjecting people to things they don't want to see...I want them to push it within the boundries that the law has in place There are no real defined laws. Most of them are guidlines. How can you follow these guidlines if they are defined by dynamic grey lines???Yes, I like to push the edge in all areas - thinking/acting outside of the box is something I encourage. The problem is there are tons of double standards. I know for a fact that I put stuff on the air that was far worse than anything Howard Stern has ever done - I had a couple have sex on the air, I played Metallica's "So Fucking What" in the middle of the day, etc...not once did my host, radio station, or myself ever get a fine or complaint. I will say that there is always the right time/place to push the envelope...timing is everything. You mentioned that people didn't have a chance to turn the channel before the Super Bowl boob - but people complain about things they know will be on the air anyhow! People continue to turn in to things that they know will upset them and then they still complain!!! QuoteYou want to blame the cop for giving out tickets. Um, I do? Actually, I don't and that assumptioin is wrong. I have never blamed cops for doing their job. Also, apple to oranges here. Speeding is not safe and puts people at serious risk - it is very irresponsible._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #66 November 13, 2004 Total count of ABC stations that did not air it: 66.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #67 November 13, 2004 QuoteQuote It isn't just technology. For example, Andy McNab's SAS stick, comprised of just seven men, accounted for HUNDREDS of Iraqi dead and wounded in the Gulf War. McNab's team was eight strong, and the accuracy of his account has been seriously called into question. You are correct - there were eight, but McNab was quoting the Iraqis wrt the numbers - I don't think he needed to exaggerate. "Operators" are all about getting accurate information, so I don't think it was him, but the Iraqis. McNab himself had no way of knowing the actual figures, so he had no choice but to pass on what he had been told by the Iraqis themselves. Given the Arab penchant for exaggeration and bluster, the number is most likely inflated (which is kind of surprising, since Arabs are all about "face", and being humiliated by a handful of foreign devils probably goes down hard - yet I seem to recall that the Iraqis thought they had been attacked by a much larger force), but that's not McNab's fault. Furthermore, everything else in McNab's debriefing was corroborated. The figure includes dead AND wounded. For every KIA, there are at least three or more WIA of varying degrees. That and drama will inflate figures, so yeah, it's probably only ten or twenty to one instead of fifty to one. It's still pretty damed impressive, especially the way the surviving members of McNab's stick handled themselves after the Iraqis caught them. However, I got far off the topic of this thread - I don't think that a picture like "Saving Private Ryan" should be shown on broadcast television for several reasons - I'm a purist snob and object to commercial disruption of drama. What if in the theater, the actors in "Henry V" just suddenly stopped what they were doing so that a pitchman could come on stage and advertise Madam Grizelda's Yorkshire Pudding? Another is that unfiltered sex and violence on television has been proven over and over to be bad for kids, and adults don't exercise any parental control; indeed, they allow the damned box to be the baby-sitter. Kids shouldn't be sheltered, but they shouldn't have their faces ground in it 24x7 either. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #68 November 14, 2004 Hi mark I agree with you and the kid thing. I've visited some neighbor's and felt uncomfortable sitting with the complete family watching ultra violence stuff. But maybe somehow the parents communicate with the kids about what their watching on T.V. All parents? Hell no . There were plenty of warning about the content of SPR. I think If I was a "normal" kid and saw SPR I would have nightmares and wouldn't want to play any war games or with guns for a very long time. The sicko kids with irresponsiable parents might be more sicko. Don't know if you saw the film on TV but they also had a script at the end of the movie with a 800# for vets that had watched the movie and were having problems with what they saw in the movie. Don't know if the 800# was WAS R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #69 November 14, 2004 QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this case the action was pushing it to far...You may call them "leaders" and they are...but they are still also morons. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting - so you feel those that push the edge in skydiving are morons as well? I have recently seen some of your posts saying how much this is needed. Did I say that? Nope...But Janet was a moron. If you wanted to land a wingsuit and did it tomorrow, you would also be a moron. Does that mean that anyone that tries to ever land a WS is a moron? Nope...But if you did it to fast before it was safe. Yep. QuoteYou may want to double check your broadcast history. Sullivan didn't allow Elvis to show his hips on TV, and Sullivan banned Morrison from his show. Sullivan didn't let Elvis be shown below the waist. But he did put him on, which was more than anyone else was going to. Sullivan knew the limits he could push it. So he was a leader, that never steped over the line. QuoteI'm thinking since this was my major in college and I was in broadcasting that I know just a few things about this area. I was just trying to further educate you. No, you assumed that I didn't know anything about it....you migth know more...Hell you most likely do...But just cause it was your major does not mean you know it all, or that others know nothing. Marketing is my Major....That does not mean I really know much about it. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You want to blame the cop for giving out tickets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Um, I do? Actually, I don't and that assumptioin is wrong. I have never blamed cops for doing their job. Also, apple to oranges here. Speeding is not safe and puts people at serious risk - it is very irresponsible. You want to blame the FCC (the Cop) for enforcing the laws that we have. I'd rather blame the speeder (Janet and her boob) for breaking the law. Janet KNEW that she was going over the edge of what would be allowed....Her doing that made things like SPR an issue. She and her kind (Stearn, The Love sponge....ect) pushed till the FCC pushed back. Its not the FCC's fault. They are to blame. So I don't blame the cop for doing his job...you want to."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #70 November 14, 2004 Triva Elvis in his early career was nicknamed Elvis the pelvis Some people thought janet was a boob before she had her mal. R.I.P. Who says SC can't be fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #71 November 14, 2004 QuoteShe and her kind (Stearn, The Love sponge....ect) pushed till the FCC pushed back. Its not the FCC's fault. They are to blame. So I don't blame the cop for doing his job...you want to. It's called freedom of expression/speech. YOu don't like it, change the damn station. Why should narrow-minded puritans decide what I can listen to? UGH!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #72 November 15, 2004 QuoteSo I don't blame the cop for doing his job...you want to. Apparently you missed it the first time I said I don't. On top of that, its an apple to oranges comparison._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #73 November 15, 2004 QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So I don't blame the cop for doing his job...you want to. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apparently you missed it the first time I said I don't. On top of that, its an apple to oranges comparison. No I didn't miss it...You are doing it. You want ot blame the FCC for enforcing the rules we have and give a free pass to those who break them. It is also not apple to orange. You just choose not to see it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #74 November 15, 2004 QuoteIt's called freedom of expression/speech. YOu don't like it, change the damn station. Why should narrow-minded puritans decide what I can listen to? UGH!!! you are also free to get a satellite radio. Then you can have as much or as little smut as you like. However on PUBLIC airwaves there needs to be a standard that is maintained. You may not like it, so get Siruis. I don't think I would want my kids to be able to hear that kind of crap. So I would not let them. Its called being a good parent."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #75 November 15, 2004 QuoteNo I didn't miss it...You are doing it. You want ot blame the FCC for enforcing the rules we have and give a free pass to those who break them. Well seeing that I helped the FCC impose fines on a broadcaster, I know you are dead wrong._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
