This Is Why I Hate HOAs

[Kennedy 0]

(that stands for home owners associations)

http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041104/NEWS/111040004

Quote

Bear shooter fined for firing gun

BACHELOR GULCH - A man who shot a black bear that had been frequenting his home and yard in September has been fined $1,000 by a homeowner's association for firing a gun at the animal.

Homeowners covenants prohibit using firearms in the subdivision perched on a wooded bowl north of Beaver Creek.

Homes in Beaver Creek and Bachelor Gulch were regularly visited by bears in search of food this year because a late summer frost nipped the berry and acorn crop, leaving them little food with which to fatten up for winter hibernation.

State wildlife officers were forced to kill one bear that broke into a Fairway Drive home three times.

Homeowner John Tietbohl shot the bear with a handgun after it approached him one night in his driveway a few days after a bear charged him outside his home. The bear was bleeding heavily after the shooting and wildlife officials lost its trail when they searched for the animal the next morning.

In an interview earlier this year, Tietbohl said the 175-pound bear frequented his home and was often seen looking in the windows. It also had entered the home by pushing a door handle lever, he said.

Members of the homeowner's association were tight-lipped over the incident, and refused to comment on the particulars of the actions taken against Tietbohl. Several officials close to the case confirmed the fine.

"This is a private matter between resident and the board," said board member John Maher. "We did act in a fashion that we thought was appropriate and we felt we now should all move on."

Wildlife officials theorize the 2-year-old bear had been attracted to the area by food scraps left by construction crews when Tietbohl's home was under construction.

Sheriff Joe Hoy said no charges would be filed by the Sheriff's office and wildlife officials said many bears have begun to hibernate and won't emerge until April.

I bet these idiots would've fined him even if it were a violent felon that he shot in self defense instead of a bear.

I hope to high heaven that I never have to live with an HOA.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Rebecca 0]

Aww c'mon - he could've thrown the gun instead of firing it. Or maybe poked the bear with a stick. Or maybe waved his arms and screamed. Better yet, he could've just reasoned with the nice little hungry bear. .

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Aww c'mon - he could've thrown the gun instead of firing it. Or maybe poked the bear with a stick. Or maybe waved his arms and screamed. Better yet, he could've just reasoned with the nice little hungry bear.

Was this gentleman not aware of the rule? He always had the option of not living there....

[Rebecca 0]

It may not have always been a problem as long as the bears had plenty of food for winter. Besides, it's not like he went out looking for the bear, or even shot it the first time it came-a-knockin'.

Not so easy to get out once you've bought a home and locked into a HOA.

I think a cell phone with Animal Control on speed dial would've been a good idea too.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I think a cell phone with Animal Control on speed dial would've been a good idea too.

Yup, he could have called Animal Control, by the time they got there they could have called the Morgue to pick up his body and then gone and looked for the bear.

Its a great idea as long as you're not caught outside with the animal.


Another lesson learned in this story is that most handgun calibers can not drop a bear. A .454 revolver would have been a good choice for this guy to have around.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Rebecca 0]

Oh no, I said "too" for the cellphone, not "Insead of the gun".

I may be all about the animals in a global sense, but if a hungry black bear is in my driveway, looking for food and seeing me - and I have a gun in my hand? BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Click! Click!

Click.

Whew! Brrring! Brrring! "Hello Animal Control? Yeah, um..."

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[PhreeZone 20]

Welcome to what happens to when humans move into an already shrinking natural environment for animals. Human/animal confontations will increase and eventually one of the parties will be killed. Almost always its the animal that is killed. Relocation seems to work to a point, but once an animal becomes a problem animal there is little that can be done to correct it.

As for the HOA's if he had a house built in the subdivision less then 2 years ago then he knew exactly what was in that contract and if he was'nt happy with it he should'nt have invested that much money in a contract he was not happy with. Some HOA's won't allow things like Basketball hoops or those stupid lawn signs. If you don't like it, you can either move or work to change the bylaws.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

As for the HOA's if he had a house built in the subdivision less then 2 years ago then he knew exactly what was in that contract and if he was'nt happy with it he should'nt have invested that much money in a contract he was not happy with. Some HOA's won't allow things like Basketball hoops or those stupid lawn signs. If you don't like it, you can either move or work to change the bylaws.

That is what I was getting it...What is it many of you like to say.....love it or leave it.....

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

and I have a gun in my hand? BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Click! Click!

*click chink-kink-kink...slide-click...chunk-chink...BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM!*

hehe...always carry an extra magazine or an extra speed loader.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

You know.. this is almost like the arguement of people moving near an airport and then later deciding that they want it closed due to the noise or what ever. If you are going to be moving into bear country then you better be prepared for encounters. Disrespecting the habitat and then expecting the bears not to have dealing with humans is nieve at best. Learn how and why bears charge. They very seldom do it without a reason and you can almost always force a bear to back down with out a gun. I know that before I went into bear country I refreshed my bear knowledge and practiced camping that would minimize my possibilities of bear encounters. If you are going to move into known bear country, be prepared for encounters and be knowledgable on what to do.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

If you are going to move into known bear country, be prepared for encounters and be knowledgable on what to do.

I agree.

It also doesn't hurt to have a backup plan. You know, since bears and other wild animals never ever do something unexpected, ever, so you don't need a back up plan.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Rebecca 0]

Wait? Educate themselves? Think ahead? Respect habitat?

Psh. No no no. That's just not the way it's done. Move in first, ask questions later. Much better strategy.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[beowulf 1]

I don't know anything about HOA's. What would happen if he told them to go fuck themselves and refused to pay the fine? What would the HOA do?

[billvon 3,110]

>Not so easy to get out once you've bought a home and locked into a HOA.

That's the sort of reason people use to get skydiving operations closed down once they buy a house next to a DZ. "Yeah, so I knew it was an airport, but I didn't think airplanes made noise! I demand that the airport be shut down to protect my hearing and property values."

People should either accept the rules and conditions on the home they decide to buy, or they should buy one somewhere else. I have zero sympathy for people who buy into a home because it's a good deal and then start complaining about what they agreed to when they bought it.

[Kennedy 0]

Well, think of HOAs as a group of local who are as power hungry as bureacrats, but without the restraint.

HOAs have been known to ruin people's lives for no good reason.
(one in Florida tried to confiscate a guys house because he put up a US flag, and the HOA didn't even have a rule against flags)

It's just a bunch of vindictive schmucks who want to run the world (but will start with the neighborhood).

If they like you, nothing applies to you. If they don't like you, they can cause more trouble than you eever imagined.


You'd think they put a clause in the HOA contract exempting self defense from the no shooting rules. But do they want to fix the rules? No, they want to collect a fine for saving your own life.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Quote

I don't know anything about HOA's. What would happen if he told them to go fuck themselves and refused to pay the fine? What would the HOA do?

Put a lien on the house, evict the homeowner, and sell it for the value of the fine and the legal fees...

[tigra 0]

They could place a lien on your property making it impossible for you to sell or refinance without paying it. Eventually, they could foreclose on the lien. And, chances are, if you have a mortgage, there was a clause in your mortgage stating that you would abide by the rules of any HOA, so technically, you could be in default on your mortgage and your lender could foreclose! Depending on how the by-laws are written, they might even be able to force you out of the home/ neighborhood if you don't comply with the rules.

If you are buying a condo, or buying into a subdivision with an HOA, its important to read the by laws!

[AggieDave 6]

No joke, the folks suing after moving in next to an airport are worthless.

Ok, Bill, I agree with you on that point, but using a firearm to defend yourself on your property, which is 100% legal, that's when a HOA is over stepping its bounds.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kennedy 0]

Oh, I agree with you, Bill, but that doesn't change my opinoin of HOAs as a shitstain on the ass of humanity.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 3,110]

>Ok, Bill, I agree with you on that point, but using a firearm to defend
> yourself on your property, which is 100% legal, that's when a HOA is
>over stepping its bounds.

I agree, but the solution to that is to not belong to that HOA. As long as people disregard HOA rules and just buy a house there anyway, HOA's will continue to (legally) take such actions against homeowners. Once people are willing to put their money where their mouths are, and not belong to such HOA's, then the problem will go away.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Once people are willing to put their money where their mouths are, and not belong to such HOA's, then the problem will go away.

Yeah. I can understand how an HOA would have started with good intentions, trying to keep really odd stuff out of an area, to keep home appraisals from dropping and to keep the area nice, BUT the sorts of folks that start them are power hungry and unhappy with their lives. The same ones that go ape shit at their 6yr old son's soccer game. Atleast that's the stereotype I like to use.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm not seeing anywhere in that article that states it was done in self defese. No mention of the animal charging, no hospital visit due to injuries, nothing... I have geese that bother me in my apartment complex, they leave messes everywhere, eat any garbage they can, and terrorize the little kids by chasing them around, but I can not just go shoot them. Once we got the animal control officer to let their dog run around the complex for a few weeks the issue went away.

If you can show its in selfdefense thats one thing, but this article fails to show that.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Homeowner John Tietbohl shot the bear with a handgun after it approached him one night in his driveway a few days after a bear charged him outside his home.

That sounds like it to me. Then again, you nor I were there, so who the hell knows. I'd put money down that no matter what really happened this John Tietbohl will say it charged him...atleast if he was smart he would.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,110]

We have no HOA in the area we live in now, but the city CC+R's contain a provision to create one by filing about a dozen forms at the county clerk's office and jumping through some bureaucratic hoops. We considered forming it just to make sure it never did anything; but we realized that once we did that we'd become a lightning rod for every little complaint people had about their neighbors ("Mike uses his circular saw at night! Dao's parrot screeches all the time and bothers my cat!") I think people often give up on trying to solve problems themselves once there's some sort of government organization dedicated to solving it for them; it's easier to bitch about Mike's saw than just talk to Mike about his saw.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I think people often give up on trying to solve problems themselves once there's some sort of government organization dedicated to solving it for them; it's easier to bitch about Mike's saw than just talk to Mike about his saw

I definately agree with you there!

Although it is an interesting thought to form one so another one couldn't be formed. Thus saving yourself the headache and problems.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."