Trent 0 #1 November 7, 2004 http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/11/07/ivorycoast.mobs/index.html EXCERPT: QuoteThe [UN SECURITY] council has authorized peacekeepers to use "all necessary means" to halt fighting in the West African nation. Former Sen. John Danforth, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., said after the meeting the council understands that "France is clearly going to defend French troops and French citizens that are under attack." Good for them for standing up for their people. They didn't seem to mind when our planes and troops were getting shot at during the "No Fly" times in Iraq though. At least we can understand them on this issue.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #2 November 7, 2004 QuoteThey didn't seem to mind when our planes and troops were getting shot at during the "No Fly" times in Iraq though. How so? I don't remember the French opposing the Americans retaliating when US planes were being shot at during the "no fly zone" days. Sad to see how Ivory Coast is turning into a huge mess though... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #3 November 7, 2004 QuoteHow so? I don't remember the French opposing the Americans retaliating when US planes were being shot at during the "no fly zone" days. I didn't see them supporting the US using "any means" to stop the Iraqi government from doing it either. QuoteSad to see how Ivory Coast is turning into a huge mess though... They better be careful over there. It's a shame. I have a few friends from the Ivory coast and they had to leave because it got so bad.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #4 November 7, 2004 QuoteI didn't see them supporting the US using "any means" to stop the Iraqi government from doing it either. If you are talking about the invasion of Iraq and not the period prior to it, then I agree. But they're totally different contexts. QuoteThey better be careful over there. It's a shame. I have a few friends from the Ivory coast and they had to leave because it got so bad. Yep. And not too long ago, Ivory Coast was being displayed as a model of post colonialism stability in Western Africa. Sad indeed... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #5 November 7, 2004 Quotecolonialism the root of all evil... hope it wont turn into a bloody mess over there. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #6 November 10, 2004 The french can not criticise the middle-east too much because they have large financial interests over there. That is the reason they did not support the US in iraq Why do you think they invited the big middle-east terrorist Jasser Arafat to come to a french hospital. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #7 November 10, 2004 Quotebig middle-east terrorist Jasser Arafat I assume that you call him terrorist because he actively supports terrorism, right? How would you call the U.S government if they actively supports terrorism? I see a bit of double standard here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #8 November 10, 2004 And what about Gaddaffi? Our new friend, once a sworn enemy.....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #9 November 10, 2004 Our new friend because he has come to the realization that terrorism is bad. In fact, he is coming clean and admitting to the US he was payed by SH to have nuclear test in his country!!!! This proves the US is forgiving. If SH had done the sam thing... an about face, an invasion of Iraq would not be needed. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #10 November 10, 2004 Nothing to do with selling us oil and gas then. Remember he brought down the 747 over Lockerbie, and various other nasty acts. "This proves the US is forgiving." No it doesn't, what it proves is that our leaders can be bought. For example, what would it take for you guys to forgive OBL for 911? Some oil, some money, OBL selling out some of his pals? How much? How much to buy off your (or ours for that matter) forgiveness for that. BTW, a lot of us still believe an invasion of Iraq wasn't necessary anyway, but we've been there many times.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #11 November 10, 2004 QuoteI assume that you call him terrorist because he actively supports terrorism, right? i call him a terrorist because he is one. he had a chance to become a historic leader but he saw diplomacy as a tactic and not as a strategic choice. "get all you can with talking, and get the rest with force" O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #12 November 10, 2004 QuoteNothing to do with selling us oil and gas then. Remember he brought down the 747 over Lockerbie, and various other nasty acts. "This proves the US is forgiving." No it doesn't, what it proves is that our leaders can be bought. For example, what would it take for you guys to forgive OBL for 911? Some oil, some money, OBL selling out some of his pals? How much? How much to buy off your (or ours for that matter) forgiveness for that. BTW, a lot of us still believe an invasion of Iraq wasn't necessary anyway, but we've been there many times. OBL and Gadaffi are hardly alike.... We did kill his Son, which I think shut him up for a while. Look, over the past 3 yrs we have been scaring him, telling him he better confess to the PanAM thing and pay damages, he better stop supporting terrorism and SH, or we will invade Lybia. Well, he is beginning to listen, and wise up. It would be nice if Kim-Jung_il (SP?) Did the same. If he negotiated well, would be more willing to help NK out. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #13 November 10, 2004 QuoteWhy do you think they invited the big middle-east terrorist Jasser Arafat to come to a french hospital And why do you think the Israelis allowed him to leave his compound? Because Israelis support the PLO and Hamas? Or maybe it was because he was ill? I don't think France has too much financial interest in the Middle East anymore, definitely a lot less than the US and the UK at this time. We'll let you guys colonise the Middle East, we're too busy in Western Africa... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #14 November 10, 2004 "OBL and Gadaffi are hardly alike...." You're probably right, its the principle of the thing I guess. I'm still pretty outraged over that Lockerbie bombing though. It damn near landed on my granny's house. I'm also pretty mad that we had to set up a wee bit of Scotland in Holland (Google for Camp Zeist) to try the fuckers that actually planted the bomb. I couldn't help get the feeling that they were laughing at us all the time. And it cost us a fortune. NK is precarious, as is Iran (but less so IMO), but I don't think things will come to a head there for a while yet. Plenty of time for jawing still, hopefully.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #15 November 10, 2004 "We'll let you guys colonise the Middle East, we're too busy in Western Africa..." I like your sense of humour.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #16 November 10, 2004 Quote We'll let you guys colonise the Middle East, we're too busy in Western Africa... Pss... West Africa wazs soooo 2 centuries ago!!!! Been there done that. We didn't really want to colonise it though. Too fucking hot!!! We figured we would just get in a little 3-way action with Some slaves, molasis, and share with Europe. We finally left there I guess the Frenchies wanted more ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #17 November 10, 2004 Reagan's government sent Ollie North with a planeload of missiles as a gift to Iran. Raegan and Bush (41) both provided arms to Iraq. Aren't these 2/3 of the "Axis of Evil"? Successive US governments of both parties looked the other way for 20+ years when NORAID was collecting $millions in Boston, SanFrancisco, NYC, Chicago... for IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland and Britain. That the US suddenly "got religion" over global terrorism after 9/11/01 is good. However, it does not mean that the USA is a paragon of virtue with respect to terrorism. More like a Johnny Come Lately.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #18 November 10, 2004 >If SH had done the sam thing... an about face, an invasion of Iraq >would not be needed. Of course it would have been 'needed.' The PNAC (and later the Bush administration) made it clear that regime change in Iraq was a policy goal, and that no mere change of heart by SH would deter them. Shortly before we invaded, UN investigators reported he was cooperating, and that they could prove he had no WMD's within a few months. We invaded anyway, because to give them more time would be to weaken the case for war - and this war is something the administration (and most conservatives) wanted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #19 November 10, 2004 Quote Reagan's government sent Ollie North with a planeload of missiles as a gift to Iran. Raegan and Bush (41) both provided arms to Iraq. Aren't these 2/3 of the "Axis of Evil"? Successive US governments of both parties looked the other way for 20+ years when NORAID was collecting $millions in Boston, SanFrancisco, NYC, Chicago... for IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland and Britain. That the US suddenly "got religion" over global terrorism after 9/11/01 is good. However, it does not mean that the USA is a paragon of virtue with respect to terrorism. More like a Johnny Come Lately. In that regard so is Putin over in Russia, but we knew that. The fact is, the past is the past, and decisions were made for a reason. We befriended SH when we thought Iran was an immediate threat. THen SH went and invaded Kuait. We had to change sides. Gadaffi was a supporter of terrorism, and brought down a plane.... we killed his son and put sanctions on him. 20yrs later we have threatened him and told him to come clean. He seems to be one of the few who is doing that. Gadaffi(sp?) is still a dick for EVERYTHING he has done, but at the very least, we have scared him straighter than he was. If we can get the leaders in Pyongyang to follow suit, the world will be a safer place... My only point is, times change... Sides change. You and I can't go back and undo what was done. If we can turn old enemies into either informants or friends it believe it can only help! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #20 November 10, 2004 Big difference between French citizens and US soldiers patrolling a warzone. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #21 November 11, 2004 Read closer big guy, they were also attacking French military installments. Or is it just okay when civilians get attacked?Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #22 November 11, 2004 Trent, they broke a UN ordered cease fire agreement. UN staff and PeaceKeeping personnel were killed, including some French and an American. The UN created new mandates that the PeaceKeeping Forces along with members of the French Military, were authorized to enforce with approval by the Security Council. IMO this isn't the strongest comparision with anything that's happened in Iraq. From the UN News Centre: Quote“The Security Council demands the immediate cessation of all military operations by all Ivorian parties and full compliance with the ceasefire agreement of 3 May 2003,” the US Ambassador said. He confirmed that the French forces and the UN Operation in Côte d'Ivoire (UNOCI) – which together have been monitoring a “Zone of Confidence” separating the divided country – are authorized “to use all necessary means” in discharging their mandates. UNOCI, the Council President pointed out, “is authorized to prevent any hostile action, in particular within the Zone of Confidence.” The Government of Côte d'Ivoire and the rebel Forces Nouvelles were called on to refrain from any violence against civilians and to cooperate fully with UNOCI. “The Security Council firmly reminds all parties of the need to guarantee the security and freedom of movement of all UN personnel,” Mr. Danforth said. from the UN News Centre: QuoteHate and anti-French messages continued unabated on radio and television despite a call yesterday from UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan that such incitement cease and that all parties maintain the ceasefire that ended direct fighting early last year and resume the peace process. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), Ruud Lubbers, warned that an escalation of violence in Côte d'Ivoire could destabilize neighbouring countries, particularly fragile Liberia, itself emerging from 14 years of civil war. The latest unrest flared last Thursday when the Government violated the ceasefire by launching an attack in the Zone of Confidence (ZOC) separating the combatants. On Saturday Government aircraft bombed French peacekeepers in the area, killing nine people and leading to French reprisals which destroyed the tiny Ivorian air force. This in turn led to anti-foreigner rioting in Abidjan, the country's largest city. UN peacekeepers have so far escorted up to 400 non-UN persons from the three sites protected by UN blue helmets for processing prior to evacuation out of the country. They also escorted some 150 Canadians, 40 Spaniards and a number of Moroccans to the airport. These groups are being flown out by the respective countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #23 November 11, 2004 THose proud to be terrorist that kill Olympians in the Olympic villiage of Munich are TERRORIST=PLO Those that jump at the chance to be submissive as scared puppy in the Face of Terorists are called =COWARDS. Just the FACTS._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #24 November 11, 2004 QuoteTHose proud to be terrorist that kill Olympians in the Olympic villiage of Munich are TERRORIST=PLO dude, there is not enough room on the DZ.com servers to list all terror action carried out by the PLO... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #25 November 11, 2004 "Those proud to be terrorist that kill Olympians in the Olympic villiage of Munich are TERRORIST=PLO " Wasn't that particular attrocity largely attributed to Black September, which would lead us back to Gadaffi. Black September were Palestinian, and probably had ties with the PLO (also Abu Nidal, and the PLFP), but they were bankrolled by Gadaffi, not Arafat.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
