Why Kerry Lost The 2004 Election

[Flarelatedad 0]

And I hope George Soros, Michael Moore, and the rest of the liberal whackjobs out there NEVER realize just how much they contributed to getting GWB elected. Sweet.


Remember, Moore was one of Nader's biggest supporters in 2000! What happended then? This time he was Kerry's biggest supporter, what happened?

Is it just me or is there a pattern?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I can't believe that the horse that died is still being shot at.

He is hoping to get hired by Karl Rove.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[storm1977 0]

I think the real reason Kerry lost is because of one KEY issue.

The USA is not a secular Country. Though the dems would like it to be, a majority of this country is of faith and share the same Moral values. Until the Dems realize this, they are destin to loose.
This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs which are still held by most americans.
There is no Core belief system of the Democratic party. Therefore, there is no real focus. There is no ONE message. Instead you have many factions and groups supporting the cause. Groups like NOW, Planned Parenthood, The Anti-Christian coalition, NORMAL, etc.... What did these groups have in Common during this election? Only that they wanted GWB out of office. Meanwhile, groups supporting Bush feel united in there moral beliefs whether you are a Jew, catholic, Muslim, Hindo...etc.

This is a cultural war between those with a strong moral belief system, and those looking to change it.

It is sort of like the movie The Last Samuri (sp?).
Traditional vs. Contemporary.

Anyone watch Joe Scarborough Last night? Mike Barnical (sp?) Was on and made some excellent points about where the Dems have gone wrong, and how they just don't understand (fundamentally) how middle america thinks and feels.

Example - The Janet Jackson ordeal. When poled, people in the Red states thought it was a big deal and something they didn't want their children to see. People in the Blue states tended to say.. Who cares... it is just a boob.
The Dems just don't realize that most of us (Repub's) would rather not have our 14yr old daughters or 12 yr old sons subjected to smut on tv. We want some cernsorship in Hollywood, and we would like to see the rating system of movies work better. There is enough trash and smut and sex outside of our windows, that we don't need it pumped into our houses on network TV.

By having Kerry out Campaigning with the likes of P-diddy, and Eminem, it makes people and families in this country feel that he has no morals.... These are people who make their living off degrading woman, cursing habitually, and speak about shooting eachother. Don't even get into the Ben(ifer) guy.

I think that is the fundamental reason why the Dems lost. There are too many people in this country who care about a strong moral foundation. Who believe in freedom of speech, but believe with it, comes responsibility. People like P-diddy and Eminem were just examples, but they are people without much responsibility.

I think the Democratic party needs to take a long look at itself and needs to find out how to get back ontrack with America.
This is not Europe.... We as a people (the majority of us) don't feel that everyone should just be able to do what ever they want.

Chris

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[AggieDave 6]

That was one hell of a post. Good explaination and good insight.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pajarito 0]

Yup!!!

[wildblue 7]

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There is enough trash and smut and sex outside of our windows, that we don't need it pumped into our houses on network TV.

My mother felt the same way about 20 years ago.
So we didn't own a TV.

Personally, I don't think it's the governments job to be our moral compass. People who (for the most part) lie for a living are going to force their moral beliefs on us and the world? Bad idea. Actually, just a stupid idea.

I don't think it was a coincidence we had the marriage protection act as the only state issue to vote on here in ohio. I think it was a brilliant move. One of Bush's people even said they had started 'courting' pastors around here as long as 2 years ago. I honestly believe it's one of the reasons Bush won this state. Keep me safe, keep the country in good economic shape, help the poor... but don't tell me what's right and wrong.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[StevePhelps 0]

Most likely there are many issues why Kerry lost, flip-flopper, no agenda except a plan, but I agree with your assessment in general. Good post.

[storm1977 0]

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Personally, I don't think it's the governments job to be our moral compass.

Your right, it isn't the Governments Job, however, the people want the country to have a stronger moral belief system, and that is why we elceted GWB.

GWB didn't appoint himself... the PEOPLE did.

This is the problem with the Dems. They don't see it is the PEOPLE that want this. Not Government, the people!!!

They know if they elected someone like Kerry or Dean they country would loose some of that. This topic is obviously important to a great deal of the nation, and like I said, until the Dems realize that, they are destin to fail.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[PhillyKev 0]

You're right, and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the split between the left and the right is very much geographical. In most areas of the country you're in either a mostly left leaning or mostly right leaning area. So your perception is that that is how the majority of people overall feel, but it's just the majority of people in your area and areas like it.

You say a majority of this county is of faith and talk about Judeo-Christian beliefs held by "most" of the country. That appears to be true, but "most" is limited to about 51%. Probably in your area it feels like a lot more than that. Just like here it is much much less. The country is pretty evenly split, and it is geographical.

I'll repeat my request from another thread. Would the South mind secceding again? Or the North can do it this time. It's obvious that our country is divided by core beliefs in separate geographical areas. Seems clear the only way to end the strife is to seperate. Either that or figure out some way to compromise, but that just means no one is happy.

Strange times indeed.

[AggieDave 6]

Go take a look at the voter breakdown county by county I posted in the "majority" thread.

Its not a north/south thing, its a country/small pockets of liberals thing. You have the north east, then you have the handful of large urban areas.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wzettler 0]

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I think the Democratic party needs to take a long look at itself and needs to find out how to get back ontrack with America.
This is not Europe.... We as a people (the majority of us) don't feel that everyone should just be able to do what ever they want.

In the first sentence from the above quote:
Replace "Democratic party" with "American colonies"
Then replace "America" with "England"

Sounds similar to what the British said during Revolutionary times. I find that funny.

Remember that this country was founded by people who wanted to change the way things were so that all could come here and be happy. You know, the pursuit of happiness. Freedom.
Not what the "ruling" party thought was right...

I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them.

[pajarito 0]

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You say a majority of this county is of faith and talk about Judeo-Christian beliefs held by "most" of the country. That appears to be true, but "most" is limited to about 51%. Probably in your area it feels like a lot more than that. Just like here it is much much less. The country is pretty evenly split, and it is geographical.

Apparently, it's closer to around 82% who identify themselves with Judeo-Christian beliefs. At least, that's the statistic I'm coming up with the most. I don't think it necessarily has to do with whether you vote Democrat or Republican as you suggest with your 51%. Although, I'd guess that there are more Christians who vote Republican these days than not.

[storm1977 0]

I live in ny, and I am an agnostic. I just happen to believe that a strong moral foundation is good. I don't pray to a god...I don't pray. But I don't think it is a bad thing if you do. I was raised catholic, and I am a scientists. My views changed over time. However, just because I am not religious doesn't mean I don't think religion is good. I think it is very good, and I think it instills a lot of values in children and in family.

Listen to AD... look at the county by county voting.

As far as secceeding...... THat is stupid.

Look, the foundation of this country hasn't changed. So now with the influx of European thinking we should split up? No. My hope is that the FAR left moves... move to Canada or Europe with the people who you share views with. Don't try to secceed. I think and I hope America stays on track with its thinking, with its faith, and with it's morals.

I know you feel different, but I don't think you are FAR Left. Howard Deans of the country however....

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[PhillyKev 0]

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Go take a look at the voter breakdown county by county I posted in the "majority" thread.

Its not a north/south thing, its a country/small pockets of liberals thing. You have the north east, then you have the handful of large urban areas.

Yeah, I know that. But it's more like the MidAtlantic, across the Northern Border and great lakes, over to the west and down the coast. I'm sure we can figure out a boundary line and some people can move Or just split into 3. South, NE and West.

[PhillyKev 0]

That's true also, but of those 82% not all of them believe that their beliefs should guide how the gov't is run. I know plenty of liberal christians and jews who have strong religious convictions, they just aren't the same as the conservative christians and jews.

Basically the split is between those who believe that religious based moral values should be a part of how the government operates, and those who don't.

[storm1977 0]

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That's true also, but of those 82% not all of them believe that their beliefs should guide how the gov't is run. I know plenty of liberal christians and jews who have strong religious convictions, they just aren't the same as the conservative christians and jews.

Basically the split is between those who believe that religious based moral values should be a part of how the government operates, and those who don't.

I don't think that is true. I don't think it is a matter of "Religious based Values". I am a prime example. I just think it is Values and Morals in general.
Look at Joe Lieberman... He had a lot of values, and he stood up against Hollywood. The DEM party made him apologize (Back when he was running for VP)

Remember Tipper Gore... She got the explicit Language stickers on CD. Once Al Gore became VP, TIpper almost had to beg the DNC for forgiveness.

THere is something wrong there with the DNC. They certainly aren't looking out for my family.

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but of those 82% not all of them believe that their beliefs should guide how the gov't is run.

I don't think that is true either. Maybe some of them just thought the other issue were more important during this election... issues like the economy of Iraq.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[PhillyKev 0]

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As far as secceeding...... THat is stupid.

I didn't mean it seriously. Give me some credit here. I'm just trying to convey that the country, overall is almost evenly split. But within each individuals personal geographical location, the splits aren't as even. Most areas are overwelmingly one way or the other. And I don't mean radical left or right. Just that there's a bigger difference between those who lean left or lean right in each geographical area.

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My hope is that the FAR left moves... move to Canada or Europe with the people who you share views with.

Now that's being silly. Diversity and a broad range of beliefs is what makes this country what it is. The meaning of America to me is that it tries to be inclusive of EVERYONE.

[pajarito 0]

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Basically the split is between those who believe that religious based moral values should be a part of how the government operates, and those who don't.

There’s a difference between religion controlling government, which I don’t believe many in this country including myself would support, and simply acknowledging God who is inherent in a government like ours founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Also, if the elected leaders are Christian, of course their moral convictions will be reflected in the way they govern. That would also be true of a secular political leader. Secularists want to eliminate God altogether. That’s not what the Founding Fathers intended.

[PhillyKev 0]

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There’s a difference between religion controlling government, which I don’t believe many in this country including myself would support, and simply acknowledging God who is inherent in a government like ours founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

I agree, but I think you are somewhere in between. You don't want religion to control gov't. But you want gov't policies based on your religious beliefs. Not that you want them consulting a bible to make laws, but your personal moral values, which ARE based on religion, and which I don't necessarily share, are what you believe should be the guide to making public policy.

That's my perception anyway...am I off base?

And I'm not saying that in an accusatory manner. I would prefer that MY personal moral beliefs are used to shape public policy, they happen to differ from yours. So don't take this as me trying to say that you want to push your beliefs on anyone. I'm just trying to understand the whole picture.

[pajarito 0]

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I agree, but I think you are somewhere in between. You don't want religion to control gov't. But you want gov't policies based on your religious beliefs. Not that you want them consulting a bible to make laws, but your personal moral values, which ARE based on religion, and which I don't necessarily share, are what you believe should be the guide to making public policy.

That's my perception anyway...am I off base?

And I'm not saying that in an accusatory manner. I would prefer that MY personal moral beliefs are used to shape public policy, they happen to differ from yours. So don't take this as me trying to say that you want to push your beliefs on anyone. I'm just trying to understand the whole picture.

I agree with you hesitantly. I feel like you’re trying to catch me in something here.
No, seriously, I believe that about sums it up. I’m sure we’d differ on how much expression should be allowed and what exactly crosses the line.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I'll tell you what alarmed me about this. It wasn't Bush's values being formed into policy, thats inevitable, and I don't have an issue with it, so this isn't about that angle.
What alarmed me was religious leaders (Evangelical preachers) urging their flock to vote one way or another from the pulpit. To me, thats just wrong.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[PhillyKev 0]

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I agree with you hesitantly. I feel like you’re trying to catch me in something here.

HA!! I got you!! See, I knew it!! You guys just want to...

...I kid I kid

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[pajarito 0]

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I'll tell you what alarmed me about this. It wasn't Bush's values being formed into policy, thats inevitable, and I don't have an issue with it, so this isn't about that angle.
What alarmed me was religious leaders (Evangelical preachers) urging their flock to vote one way or another from the pulpit. To me, thats just wrong.

That's not legal the way you said it. They'll lose their tax free status. I agree that they do it, however, in subtle ways. It happens on both sides. I'd dare say more so on the Democrat side, though. Maybe I'm wrong. Churches do tend to push the limit sometimes.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

The programme I saw, the guy was urging his flock for Dubbya, in no uncertain terms.
Thats not a criticism of Dubbya, you know if I could spin it that way I probably would.
But there were many aspects of your election process that surprised me, 527s being one example, this was by no means the most alarming. Its all vastly different from the way we do things, different strokes for different folks I suppose. You'll probably find our election processes 'quaint' by comparison.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[storm1977 0]

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The programme I saw, the guy was urging his flock for Dubbya, in no uncertain terms.
Thats not a criticism of Dubbya, you know if I could spin it that way I probably would.
But there were many aspects of your election process that surprised me, 527s being one example, this was by no means the most alarming. Its all vastly different from the way we do things, different strokes for different folks I suppose. You'll probably find our election processes 'quaint' by comparison.

See, here is the problem...

It is OK for Black Churches to invite in Kerry, but not OK for Bush. There are many black churches which need to be investigated by the IRS after some of what went on during this election.

You need to look at both sides. It was definately done by Democrats too.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty