Disaffected Americans look north to 'better government'

[PhillyKev 0]

By MARINA JIMÉNEZ
With a report from Jeff Gray
Thursday, November 4, 2004 - Page A4

Some Americans are willing to do anything to avoid another four years of George W. Bush -- even move to Canada.

Joe Auerbach is so disappointed with Mr. Bush's election victory that he is planning to give up a job as a systems analyst and leave his comfortable life in Columbus, Ohio, to move to a country with "a better government and more reasonable people."

"Today, once the Bush victory was clear, my e-mail was burning up with people vowing to leave the U.S. for Canada," said Mr. Auerbach, 27.

"I don't want to be living in the U.S. when China decides we are a threat and when George Bush starts drafting computer engineers into the army. I'm morally opposed to the Bush administration."

He and several other disenchanted Americans are contacting immigration lawyers north of the border to see whether they qualify to immigrate to Canada. It is too soon to say whether this is political hot air or the start of a new trend in immigration.

But among some middle-class, liberal Americans, there is a growing sense of political disengagement as they realize the majority of their fellow citizens support the conservative agenda of Mr. Bush, who received 51 per cent of the popular vote, winning more votes than any other president in U.S. history.

"Mr. Auerbach is one of many middle-class Americans who have a philosophical difference with the direction the U.S. is taking," said Sergio Karas, a Toronto immigration lawyer. "I have received several inquiries from people like him who want to move here."

Jacqueline Bart, a Toronto immigration lawyer, said she recently attended a conference in New York and more than a dozen U.S. lawyers asked her about sending their children to study in Canada. "There is a sense of hesitation about the direction Bush is taking the country in," she said.

Clyde Williamson, a libertarian from Ohio, feels the Bush administration is too conservative on social-justice issues such as gay rights, abortion and the medicinal use of marijuana. He is also opposed to the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

"I don't think the U.S. is going to turn into Nazi Germany or anything. But it is going to become a much more conservative country," said the 29-year-old computer-security engineer.

Others feel Mr. Bush's unilateralist foreign policy is more troubling even than his social conservatism. A former U.S. diplomat who has already applied for permanent-resident status said yesterday that Mr. Bush's election victory has accelerated his determination to relocate permanently to Vancouver.

"I'm watching this administration preside over the virtual destruction of relations with the Muslim world -- and, I fear, end up strengthening the forces of terrorism as a result," he said.

"The values of Canada are what I thought the values of the U.S. used to be: personal freedoms, a sense of need for a global community and consensus. The U.S. is losing its way."

A Toronto lawyer representing three U.S. soldiers who have fled to Canada to avoid fighting in Iraq said Mr. Bush's re-election means more U.S. deserters are likely to seek refugee status north of the border.

Jeffry House, a Vietnam-era draft-dodger who is steering the refugee claims of the three young men, says he has received about 80 e-mails from other U.S. soldiers stationed around the world, inquiring about escaping to Canada to avoid serving in Iraq. At least five U.S. soldiers are believed to have fled to Canada.

Maria Iadinardi, spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada, said it is too soon to say whether there has been a spike in the number of Americans being granted permanent residency, noting the number has fluctuated in recent years from a low of 4,437 in 1998 to a high of 5,604 in 2001.

So far this year, 5,353 Americans have become permanent residents.
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From globeandmail.com

[Gawain 0]

Good grief...let me go rent a bus, I'll drive these "disaffected" Americans up there myself. Let them be a drain on Canada's creaking social system.

I'll have the last laugh though, because I'll drive them to Quebec. Let the wine-drinking, pea soup eating Quebecois spit on them when they get off the bus...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[markd_nscr986 0]

What a bunch of quitters.......

We're far better off without them

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[meltdown 0]

Why stop at Canada? All the way to France I say!

[PhillyKev 0]

I actually thought about taking this path myself. If it weren't for the cold weather, wild moose and polar bear attacks, and well, all the damn Canadians up there I might actually do it, too!

[Icon134 0]

don't let the door hit them on the way out of the country...

and don't expect to be welcomed back if/when they're begging to come back home.

Scott

[pajarito 0]

Quote

I actually thought about taking this path myself. If it weren't for the cold weather, wild moose and polar bear attacks, and well, all the damn Canadians up there I might actually do it, too!

I wish all the whiny, bleeding heart, America haters would head North...or South...across the pond...doesn't really matter. I just wish most of them would stop talking about it and do it. It would be better for the country. Take Sean Penn, George Clooney, and the like with them. They’re all so full of shit.

[markd_nscr986 0]

Dont forget how expensive booze is north of the border!

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[PhillyKev 0]

I wish all the angry, hateful American haters would secede from the union again. I promise, we won't try and stop you this time.

[unformed 0]

Fuck Canada. I'll go to Costa Rica. Beautiful weather, beautiful girls, an intelligent government.

This ad space for sale.

[Dougiefresh 0]

This is weak. Better to stay and fight the radicals than run with your tail between your legs.

Stand up for what you believe in. So the country is swinging far to the right, get out on the street and demand representation from your government.

We're not ALL right wing nutjobs, really. Just most of us.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Canada is a great, beautiful place, but it's just too damn cold for too long of the year. As to these cowards who chose to enlist into the armed services but want to run away, fuck them. No one forced any of them to sign that contract. This cannot be confused with the draft dodging era.

[murrays 0]

Please don't let these fruitcakes leave the U.S. It's hard enough being a GWB fan up here in the Great White North as it is.

I got a chuckle out of the comment in the article that Canada is for "personal freedoms"....Nothing could be further from the truth. The successive Liberal governments have eroded our personal freedoms considerably and continue to do so. There isn't anything that they don't want to tax or regulate. I really don't like the path my country is going down.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

Why stop at Canada? All the way to France I say!

AMEN!!!

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[DALAILAMA 0]

Hey Joe,
Instead of heading north, how about reporting to one of the many military bases inside the US.
(you know the place that houses the people who defend, fight and die for the freedom you take for granted)
When you report just tell them what kink of bleeding heart liberal you are and how you are not satisfied with their country or their commander in chief. I am sure they will find you a nice comfortably place to reside for a short transition period prior to operations Being conducted.
Your choice of residence includes the following
LOT # 1. 50-100 acres of open land, with all the fresh air you can breath. A view of the stars that people can only dream of, with wildlife all around. No taxes to be paid and no noisy neighbors! The only down fall for you and your deserter friends. The noise is a tad loud once the Miniguns begins prepping the objective with preassault fires. Oh how exquisite it is to see the flames dance while the tracers light up the night from the side C-130 Specter gunship, as it ever so silently glides through the midnight air in a left hand pattern as if only to taunt the prey below. Once the terror has completely sunk in and just as you were getting ready to reclaim your loyalty to our great nation, a loud and thunderous boom would ring through the countryside as the ever so greatful pilots conducting the live fire training mission would introduce you to another great American wonderfully named 105 mm howietzer.
(You can run, but you will only die tired!)
LOT # 2 A fully furnished 6 bedroom, 3 bathroon, condominium. remotely secluded for the privacy lover in you. No down payment needed, free utilities, free air conditioning, thanks in large to no roof. And all the company you could ever want with cardboard silhouettes of all your favorite friends. Nevermind the walls being tires and the thousands of spent shell casings that make up your custom floor. You can entertain your cardboard friends until all hours of the night as you see fit with no interruption from law enforcement individuals....well that is until the Door is suddenly blown from the hinges from the charges of C-4 and det cord and the party is so rudely interrupted by the ear bleeding concussion of a flash bang. Once you think...oh nevermind, you won't have time to think. Just as you realize you are not the life of the party anymore, you have a stream of 12 dashing individuals, whom you don't remember inviting to your little get together, pour through what used to be a doorway. Blatantly ignoring the "please check your coats at the door sign" the 12 individuals graciously introduce themselves to your communist liberal friends by delivering a 9mm to the head and one to the chest with what is called the double tap polka! Realizing you don't dance your new friends graciously leave you to your lifeless party with a quickness. As they disappear into the night you are simply left with the fresh smell of gun powder, the Blinding glare from the flash and the ringing in your ears. the memory of sweet sounds of suppressed weapons. and just as your ears begin to return to normal. You can faintly hear the sound of a laser guided Tomahawk as it gently enters your residence relieving you from all burdons of ever having to clean up after the party.

If you are not going to be thankful for the freedom you enjoy, then you are blatantly telling the individuals that die for your freedom that they are doing it for nothing.
If you are not going to be Pro American then,
Be a training aid! We always need training aids!

Sorry that was my outside voice!

"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form"

[storm1977 0]

Quote

Please don't let these fruitcakes leave the U.S. It's hard enough being a GWB fan up here in the Great White North as it is.

I got a chuckle out of the comment in the article that Canada is for "personal freedoms"....Nothing could be further from the truth. The successive Liberal governments have eroded our personal freedoms considerably and continue to do so. There isn't anything that they don't want to tax or regulate. I really don't like the path my country is going down.

What makes me laugh is how People down here think the Health Care system in Canada is Free.

HAHAHA.... Have fun waiting at the hospital in line with the rest of the world... Have fun pay ridiculous taxes to cover the so called free health care. Have fun paying insane tariffs on everything in Canada to cover other social programs.... Nothing is FREE.

My old boss was from Nova Scotia. Moved here 8yrs ago. He just took a job in Newfoundland, and was amazed at the price differences.

Before he left here he bought a new Computer, a new Refridgerator, and a new stove. Had all of that moved up there with him to his new house.... Why???
Because in Canada products like these are 3-4x more expensive. Sure he will have to pay a fee to bring them across, but nothing like what they would cost if purchased up there...

Don't you love socialism.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Don't you love socialism."

Don't really know how to answer that.
LOL

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Remster 30]

Quote

Because in Canada products like these are 3-4x more expensive

Get real....

Remster

[storm1977 0]

I am only telling you what he did and why... Up in St. Johns that's what the prices are like.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

What makes me laugh is how People down here think the Health Care system in Canada is Free.

You are correct in saying that the Health Care system up north is NOT free. Taxation in Canada is pretty high. But it also depends on what province you reside in. Places like Newfoundland and Quebec are extremely high and places like Alberta are much more tolerable.

Quote

Have fun waiting at the hospital in line with the rest of the world

The Canadian Health care system is great for handling non life threatening things such as broken bones. It's when the patient requires some sort of operation that the system breaks down because often people are put on waiting lists. It is safe to say the system IS NOT perfect. But it's not perfect here as well. Several years ago I had to wait several hours in a Colorado Springs emergency room (a non life threatening injury) before I was treated. And then I had to pay a huge deductable for my care.

Quote

Before he left here he bought a new Computer, a new Refridgerator, and a new stove. Had all of that moved up there with him to his new house.... Why???
Because in Canada products like these are 3-4x more expensive.

Unsubstantiated blanket statements. Might I suggest you educate yourself a little about Canada and it's economy before you start making accusations such as these. The cost of goods in Canada vary depending on the stength and/or weakness of the Canadian dollar compared to the American dollar. Currently the Canadian dollar is the strongest it's been in 20-30 years (thanks to GWB's record deficits) and the costs of many goods are in line with the cost of goods in the USA. In fact some products are cheaper north of the border. It all depends on the strength and/or weakness of the respective currencies.

My biggest beef with my own country is the fact that Ontario and Quebec control the election process. For years people in the west have wanted a new conservative federal government, but it just doesn't matter because all of the politcal power exists in Ontario and Quebec.

By the way there are only two have provinces. Ontario and Alberta (provinces that put more into the system than they take out) and the rest are have-nots (provinces that take from the federation). Things in Canada are far from perfect. But for the ignorant uneducated, it's still a pretty damn good country with lots of positives on it's side.

But the weather and jumping is better south of the border.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Things in Canada are far from perfect. But for the ignorant uneducated. It's still a pretty damn good country with lots of positives on it's side.

Then the Libs considering moving there will fit right in. Thanks for ther chuckle......

[SabreDave 0]

Canuck in USA has stated the obvious. Educate yourself a little first. 3-4x the price??? A statement of pure ignorance.
Keep believing the myths if that what it takes to keep you from moving here!!
Do a search sometime and find out how many Americans are now traveling abroad to places like India to have thier major surgeries done because the US system has failed them.
Some of you guys sure like to criticize the world, try looking in a mirror sometime, you have plenty to work on within your own borders, put your efforts there.
Me, I'll just keep living in my debt free province with one of the strongest regional economies in all of North America. Low, low unemployment and a budget surplus projected to be around 6 billion this year. Not to mention the fact I can go daylight big walls and land in front of the rangers or police and have them just say "COOL" Bwahahahahahha
And don't worry, we will still lend you our snipers to do the high altitude work when your boys arent up to it

SabreDave

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Low, low unemployment and a budget surplus projected to be around 6 billion this year.

Just curious why you think it's a good thing for govt. to keep more of your money than they need to operate? Shouldn't a "true surplus" be returned to the taxpayers?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Not to mention the fact I can go daylight big walls and land in front of the rangers or police and have them just say "COOL" Bwahahahahahha

Hmmm ... sounds like I need to visit SabreDave during the Spring/Summer months of 2005 so he can show me some of his big wall exit points.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SabreDave 0]

Hmmm ... sounds like I need to visit SabreDave during the Spring/Summer months of 2005 so he can show me some of his big wall exit points.