Milo 0 #1 October 29, 2004 I'm not trying to argue for or against any candidate. I'm just an American who would be happy if this man never took another breath. I don't believe the US Government does not know where he is. Well, I don't believe if they had spent 3 YEARS really searching for him, that his location would be unknown. My brother says: "it has a lot to do with keeping a friendly face in Pakistan." That may be true, but I don't think it is a worthy explanation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #2 October 30, 2004 QuoteI'm just an American who would be happy if this man never took another breath. I agree! The problem is the middle east and our addiction to oil. Don't you love seeing those SUV's with "Support Our Troops" stickers. The public at large doesn't want drilling on the north slope, but they purchase huge SUV's, right? And we can't just buy oil in the middle east like bananas in South America because Israel doesn't want these Muslim countries to have economic power. Bottom line is that the United States economic prosperity is being wasted in the middle east to the tune of $5-Billion per month in Iraq alone. Toss in payments to Israel to pay for military protection of their people's occupation of the West Bank, and the payments to Israel's enemies...Egypt for example. It's simply a huge waste, and there's no end in sight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #3 October 30, 2004 I don't think it is about oil. My initial post was supposed to be unbiased, but I am getting angrier and angrier. I do not believe it is beyond the ability of the USA to take out one man. I do not believe our relations with Pakistan are fragile enough that it should stop us from killing this man. I think it was a conscious decision by the current administration to allow Bin Laden to live. Maybe this is Karl Rove's 'October Surprise' Conspiracy is easier to believe than incompetance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #4 October 30, 2004 QuoteI don't think it is about oil. Oil is everything about modern life. QuoteI do not believe our relations with Pakistan are fragile enough that it should stop us from killing this man. Pakistan's father of the bomb, Abdul Kahn was busted recently for selling WMD technology to North Korea and Iran as well as anyone with money to spend. However, Musharif quickly granted him a pardon! We always end up in bed with the worst of friends. BTW, Musharif might control the cities, but he has no power at all in the countryside or mountains. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #5 October 30, 2004 He's alive because we have not found him yet. Period. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #6 October 30, 2004 I agree with Tuna. And Musharaf would love to get rid of BL as well, but can't show as much zeal tracking him down as we would like him to. His regime is quite fragile. Imagine the fundamentalists taking over these cute little nuclear warheads... That may explain why we are supporting his dictatorship, and don't put much pressure on him. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #7 October 30, 2004 >He's alive because we have not found him yet. Period. He's alive because he's not that important to us, and we really don't care where he is. Don't you listen to our president? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #8 October 30, 2004 QuoteI agree with Tuna. And Musharaf would love to get rid of BL as well, but can't show as much zeal tracking him down as we would like him to. His regime is quite fragile. Imagine the fundamentalists taking over these cute little nuclear warheads... That may explain why we are supporting his dictatorship, and don't put much pressure on him. I don't agree with either of you. I believe the USA knows or should know exactly where Osama is. I also believe the village he is hiding in could be destroyed with no fanfare and Osama could simply cease to exist with little political repercussions. Can he really become a martyr if he is never heard from again and his body is never found? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #9 October 30, 2004 QuoteHe's alive because he's not that important to us, and we really don't care where he is. Don't you listen to our president? What's more important? Killing one man, or dismantling an entire network? Someone mentioned the martyr aspect, I think that's a good reason to keep him alive. That said, I'd like to see him brought to justice. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #10 October 30, 2004 QuoteI also believe the village he is hiding in could be destroyed with no fanfare and Osama could simply cease to exist with little political repercussions. Well, you're assuming that we know where he is. The Russians spent 10 years trying to sort shit out and take out specific targets. And they were showing a lot less restraint than we are. They still came up empty. Afghanistan is not your regular terrain. US troops have little, if any, control over territories outside of Kabul. Warlords, tribe elders, etc... are in charge. Good luck... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #11 October 30, 2004 QuoteWell, you're assuming that we know where he is. The Russians spent 10 years trying to sort shit out and take out specific targets. And they were showing a lot less restraint than we are. They still came up empty. Afghanistan is not your regular terrain. US troops have little, if any, control over territories outside of Kabul. Warlords, tribe elders, etc... are in charge. Good luck... I think we have the knowledge. Or at least the capability, if we focus our resources. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #12 October 30, 2004 >What's more important? Killing one man, or dismantling an entire > network? Both, in this case. Unfortunately, given that Al Qaeda is gaining strength again, we've accomplished neither. From AP: ------------------------------------------------ Report: Al Qaeda 18,000 Strong LONDON, May 25, 2004 (AP) Despite losses around the world, al Qaeda has more than 18,000 potential terrorists, and its ranks are growing because of the conflict in Iraq, a leading think tank warned Tuesday. Al Qaeda still has a functioning leadership despite the death or capture of key figures, and estimates suggest al Qaeda operates in more than 60 nations around the world, the International Institute for Strategic Studies said in its Strategic Survey 2003-4. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #13 October 30, 2004 QuoteI think we have the knowledge. The west has a vast knowledge of the sciences, but we know little about the world's people or customs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #14 October 30, 2004 Milo, IMO he is alive simply because he has not yet been found. There are theories as to the general location he is hiding out, but they are just theories. I also do not think this new tape is an "October Surprise" orchestrated by Karl Rove. There is no proof yet if at all this tape will help either candidate. I believe every American (except those sympathetic to Al Qaeda) want him captured and brought to justice...including both candidates. I also believe the civilized world also wants him brought to justice. One problem is the fact that we are dealing with a network of terror. If OBL was captured or killed, there would certainly be a new leader crowned for the cause. This fight is not against one man. It is a fight against death and destruction, against people who believe that if they kill you or me, they will be rewarded by Allah. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #15 October 30, 2004 QuoteIf OBL was captured or killed, there would certainly be a new leader crowned for the cause. This fight is not against one man. It is a fight against death and destruction, against people who believe that if they kill you or me, they will be rewarded by Allah. I agree with that. The threat will not go away with Osama's death. But I also think that Osama is as big a lightening rod for his followers as he is for his enemies. I do not believe the death of Osama is beyond the capability of a focused US administration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #16 October 30, 2004 QuoteI also do not think this new tape is an "October Surprise" orchestrated by Karl Rove. There is no proof yet if at all this tape will help either candidate. I think Osama saying "THANK GOD" for GWB taking his time to respond so his operatives could complete their mission was definitely in Kerry's favor... Osama said GWB left 50,000 people to fend for themselves while he finished reading a book about a sheep... Definitely in Kerry's favor.... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #17 October 30, 2004 Without reading any of the replies, I would say there ain't no money in hunting OBL. blues jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #18 October 30, 2004 The fundamental reason Osama Bin Laden is still alive is that no-one's killed him and he hasn't died of natural causes!!!! Perhaps the fundamental question should be: Why is Osama Bin Laden still at large and free to make incitive broadcasts? The simple answer to that is that he is NOT hiding where we're looking! If you are going to hide, you DON'T hide in the wilderness. That's where people are few and movement / strangers stands out. So... Is he REALLY "In those Cold Afghani Mountains capped with snow"...? Naaahhhh If you were gonna disappear, would you try to hide in Montana, or Miami? Therefore, my money is on him being in a city. Kabul, Islamabad, Hong Kong, Pyongyang, Phoenix, London, Paris etc... Where he can do the most damage by being not only close to the amenities of civilation, but where movement to supply him with life's essentials will simply not show up through the clutter! The only way to find him is to wait for someone to talk... And it ain't happened yet. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #19 October 30, 2004 QuoteMy brother says: "it has a lot to do with keeping a friendly face in Pakistan." Yep. Inside the Paki intell community there are many sympathizers with OBL and his cause. They helped him gather information during the Afghanistan war, hell they even helped him establish certain aspects of what would later become Al Quada during that period. I seriously doubt we will ever find him. We took our eye off the ball and now rely to heavily on the Pakis. He does look rather healthy in this video though, not like right after we went into Afghanistan. I remember in a previous one his right arm was hanging limp and hidden from the camera, plus he was really pale. Any thoughts as to if he wants to influence our elections with this video, or could it be a reminder that he's still out there and we havent caught him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Milo 0 #20 October 30, 2004 QuoteAny thoughts as to if he wants to influence our elections with this video, or could it be a reminder that he's still out there and we havent caught him. I think the timing of the video is intentional, either to influence the vote or to signal any sleeper cells to start their mission, which will also influence the vote. Will it achive his objective? I don't know which candidate Osama wants in power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #21 October 30, 2004 QuoteI think the timing of the video is intentional, either to influence the vote or to signal any sleeper cells to start their mission, which will also influence the vote. Bingo! _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noctralucent 0 #22 October 30, 2004 QuoteHe's alive because we have not found him yet. Period. I can't believe it Still can't seem to find him. Horrible Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #23 October 30, 2004 Hmmm... I wouldn't read too much into it. Except for the good old "I'm still around, fuck you!" message Would you let your decision of whom to vote for be affected by this video? He's smarter than some people give him credit for. I believe his message was geared towards his followers rather than towards any potential voters. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #24 October 30, 2004 QuoteI don't know which candidate Osama wants in power. Your getting warm, Milo. Which party does the Pro Israeli influence control? Why do you think Osama is appealing to the people? Do you really think either party can break free of this middle east influence? Only a grass roots uprising can change things since it is political suicide for a politician to even discuss middle east support. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #25 October 30, 2004 Clearly the it is byond the ability of the US to kill this one man. As for Pakistan I'm certain they'd kill him in a heatbeat given the chance. Al Q is responsible for many attempts on the Generals life and Pakistan is responsible for the capture of 466 Al Q terrorists including several top members. In fact they're doing a damn sight better than the US.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
