Ban Lazer Tag!

[JohnRich 4]

In the news:

Police in the German city of Bonn in 1994 prohibited a German company from operating a laser tag game.

German authorities shut down the facility, arguing that "acts of simulated homicide and the ensuing trivialization of violence" violated the principle of human dignity enshrined in the German constitution.

The owners appealed and sought a ruling from the European court in Luxembourg as to whether the ban contravened the freedom to provide services under EU law.

The European Union's top court has backed the German ban on laser tag games, in which players simulate killing each other in a maze. "The affront to human dignity posed by that activity justifies a restriction on the freedom to provide services," the European Court of Justice ruled.

Source: CNews

Oh, and it's not a problem with the EU, nor a contradiction, that the same lazer tag game is being played in England.

I guess kids won't be allowed to play other games anymore either, like cowboys and indians, or cops and robbers. And I hope they're not caught pointing a finger at someone and saying "Bang!"

[Jimbo 0]

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I guess kids won't be allowed to play other games anymore either, like cowboys and indians, or cops and robbers. And I hope they're not caught pointing a finger at someone and saying "Bang!"

I don't know about the EU, but many public schools (and likely private, too) here have banned everything you already mentioned. Sad, isn't it?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[PhillyKev 0]

I kid you not, and I think I posted this before, but....a co-worker was telling me that at her daughter's school they do not have tug-of-war. They still put two teams on opposites sides of a rope and yank on it, but it's called "pull-for-peace"

Where's the puking smiley?

[Jimbo 0]

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I kid you not . . .

I'm telling you, we could play this game all day long!

A coworker was telling me that at his daughter's school that they now do "air jump rope". Kids can do all kinds of neat tricks when there's no rope in the way. No rope means everyone can do the SAME tricks!

Talk about out of fucking hand!

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Where's the puking smiley?

Agreed.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I'm telling you...
people in other threads accuse me of being anti-England or anti-European, but the truth really is

I'm anti-government-overcontrolling-citizens-and-their-freedom.

That's what the tide is bringing in both England and in Europe as a whole.

It scares and disappoints (and yes, angers) me that they have not learned some very crucial lessons of history.

And so you get bans on laser tag.

I wonder, will they ban any video game in which the player "shoots a person"?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[ahegeman 0]

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I kid you not, and I think I posted this before, but....a co-worker was telling me that at her daughter's school they do not have tug-of-war. They still put two teams on opposites sides of a rope and yank on it, but it's called "pull-for-peace"

Where's the puking smiley?

Pull-for-peace? Ha! I do that every night. The single guy's version of make love not war, or something like that.

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry

[ahegeman 0]

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I'm anti-government-overcontrolling-citizens-and-their-freedom.

That's what the tide is bringing in both England and in Europe as a whole.

Unfortunately, that tide isn't confined to the other side of the pond. The omnipresent nanny-state is gathering force over here just as rapidly.

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I kid you not, and I think I posted this before, but....a co-worker was telling me that at her daughter's school they do not have tug-of-war. They still put two teams on opposites sides of a rope and yank on it, but it's called "pull-for-peace"

Where's the puking smiley?

Okay, call me partisan if you want, but I think it's accurate to say that Democrat-leftist types generally are the ones who come up with this kind of mamsy-pamsy shit and Republican-rightists generally are the ones calling it stupid -- which it assuredly is.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I'm telling you, we could play this game all day long!

A coworker was telling me that at his daughter's school that they now do "air jump rope". Kids can do all kinds of neat tricks when there's no rope in the way. No rope means everyone can do the SAME tricks!

Talk about out of fucking hand!

Did you ever read the science fiction short story "Harrison Bergeron"?

The solution to all the inequality in the world was to make everyone equal through "handicaps."

If your eyes see too well, here are glasses you must wear to make your vision less acute.

If you hear too well, here are earplugs you must wear so you can't hear as well.

If you're too athletic and strong, here are weights you must wear to make you slow and unsteady and weakened.

If you're too smart, here are plugs that go in your ears to blare distracting noises so that you can never concentrate for very long.

This is the way we are headed, people. We are apparently letting the inmates run the asylum, and it is going to ruin us, and everything.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[PhillyKev 0]

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Okay, call me partisan if you want,

You're partisan!

You're right though. Both sides when looked at as a collective have their strengths and weaknesses, faults and good qualities. But I'll take pull-for-peace over violations-of-civil-rights-for-safety.

[Kennedy 0]

You're partisan too.

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Both sides when looked at as a collective have their strengths and weaknesses, faults and good qualities. But I'll take pull-for-peace over violations-of-civil-rights-for-safety.

Voting for either R or D is just choosing "violations-of-civil-rights-for-safety" over "violations-of-civil-rights-for-safety."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[PhillyKev 0]

I love being called partisan. Especially when I'll be voting for mostly republicans on Tuesday.

But you're right about the two parties and that's the point I was making. Neither are perfect and both involve compromising absolute freedom (anarchy) with a strong and civil society. Just seems to me that more damage to our rights comes from the extreme right than the extreme left.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Quote

Okay, call me partisan if you want,

You're partisan!

You're right though. Both sides when looked at as a collective have their strengths and weaknesses, faults and good qualities. But I'll take pull-for-peace over violations-of-civil-rights-for-safety.

I guess you mean like, "Gun-free zones"?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I love being called partisan. Especially when I'll be voting for mostly republicans on Tuesday.

But you're right about the two parties and that's the point I was making. Neither are perfect and both involve compromising absolute freedom (anarchy) with a strong and civil society. Just seems to me that more damage to our rights comes from the extreme right than the extreme left.

That's where our agreement ends. I see infringement after infringement coming from the left, because they are a very threatened-feeling lot. They see gangbangers shooting people. They respond by telling YOU and ME that we can't have guns. And they're not even the kinds of guns that the gangbangers are using!

How can you say that nonsensical infringements come from the right when you have that kind of crap coming from the left?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[PhillyKev 0]

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How can you say that nonsensical infringements come from the right when you have that kind of crap coming from the left?

Because there are a lot of issues as or more important to me than gun rights. Like reproductive rights, and privacy of your bedroom rights, and freedom from search and seizure. Gun rights are important to safeguard those rights. But I'd rather safeguard those rights by voting against the extreme right initiatives than pull a gun.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Lazer tag, thats dangerous stuff,
If we let kids play Lazer tag who knows what will happen.
For one thing, their spelling skills will suffer.

Sorry, couldn't resist it.
-Speling is a impurtant aspekt of efective writen comunicashun!

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Stumpy 284]

I hardly ever post in here but for once.....

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I'm anti-government-overcontrolling-citizens-and-their-freedom.

That's what the tide is bringing in both England and in Europe as a whole.

..... I agree with PJ!

I don't understand why our government went from being civil servants to civil evil dictators

Problem with laser tag, is that a) we might actually enjoy it and b) they can't tax it any more than they already do.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Jimbo 0]

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I don't understand why our government went from being civil servants to civil evil dictators

Why? Because we permit it.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[kallend 2,174]

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Oh, and it's not a problem with the EU, nor a contradiction, that the same lazer tag game is being played in England.

Context: the English don't have a compulsion to invade Poland or France every generation or so.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I don't understand why our government went from being civil servants to civil evil dictators"

I know when it happened, it was when that woman took office, as to why.....beats me.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[mr2mk1g 10]

I've got a feeling this is a lot more to do with Germany's history than anything else.

I've got a good friend from Germany - we went to both Laserquest and Paintballing together last year and he was ecstatic to have done both while over here in the UK.

He explained to me that both games were banned in Germany. The govt. and society in general is (to paraphrase his own words) so ashamed of their military past that such games are deemed to be - as the article suggests "an affront to human dignity".

The same is not true in the UK or in the US where we are proud of our martial traditions.

This case comes from the ECJ - when the Court "sided" with Germany, all they really did was say that where the Member State whished to impose a restriction on its citizens, the Court could not intervene where there exists a valid reason for doing so.

What the article leaves out is that the police only acted in the first place because of widespread complaints about the game by German citizens. As “human dignity” is defended by the German Constitution the German Courts had the power to prevent what they held to be in violation of the constitution. They therefore acted to prevent against something that was causing a degree of public outcry.

I can at least see the logical step between running round in a field or building shooting at each other and “human dignity” when viewed against the backdrop of Germany’s last 100 years.

The ECJ in this instance held that where something is considered to be an "affront to human dignity" that is justification enough to allow the Member State to legislate against the act. It held that it was not down to the ECJ to overrule a Member State where such concerns existed.

Those concerns were a matter for the Member State, not for the ECJ. Evidence that one Member State (UK) allows such games is not sufficient to fetter the rights of a Member State to legislate as it sees fit.

Essentially, this case is an example of European institutions being unwilling to interfere with legislative process of a Member State. That’s a good thing isn’t it? It certainly would be seen as such in the UK – we hate it when the EU starts trying to meddle in matters which we feel should be legthe preserve of our own Parliament.

Whether or not laserquest/quasar games amount to an affront as claimed by Germany is for the people of Germany to judge - not me. That was the point of the case – it’s a matter for the people of Germany – not the ECJ. The people of Germany spoke when they created their constitution.

I personally, am perfectly happy with the games and enjoy indulging in them myself... but then I can see how I might not be so happy about the game if my country had caused 2 world wars last Century and initiated the death of more than 60 million on the last go alone. These games are after all the same as played by members of the armed services when training. I guess it's all about your outlook.

In this instance the ECJ simply said that it was Germany's business, not theirs and declined to interfere in the matter. I'm not sure how that's such a big deal?

[kallend 2,174]

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I've got a feeling this is a lot more to do with Germany's history than anything else.



In this instance the ECJ simply said that it was Germany's business, not theirs and declined to interfere in the matter. I'm not sure how that's such a big deal?

In the USA the same doctrine is called "states' rights" and it is particularly popular with the right.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Tonto 1]

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And so you get bans on laser tag.

Um.. As opposed to detention without trial? I'll let Laser Tag take the knock on that one...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Zep 0]

Quote

I'm telling you...
people in other threads accuse me of being anti-England or anti-European, but the truth really is

I'm anti-government-overcontrolling-citizens-and-their-freedom.

That's what the tide is bringing in both England and in Europe as a whole.

It scares and disappoints (and yes, angers) me that they have not learned some very crucial lessons of history.

And so you get bans on laser tag.

I wonder, will they ban any video game in which the player "shoots a person"?

-Jeffrey

Jeffery, you know fuck all about Europe except what your parents have told you or you have read in the press.
For 99% of the people life is tranquilo an they don't have to worry about walking down the street at night time
I imagine you are a second or third gen, Polac from embitterd parents
Every year I visit friends not so far from you (La Jolla) A belive meone of the worst night of my life was
taking a wrong turn in downtown San Diego an running into street gang called the Latin Kings they relived me of my passport an $300
If you want I'll give you a list of the first three hand guns that they had, they were all American made.
(note 13 years in the armed forces I know my small arms)
When I rent a car in Europe they don't give me the spiel about keeping my hands in sight if I'm stoped by a police officer
Then after my my first visit to Perris leaving from San Diego an being stopped at the police control an given the equvilent of the Spanish inquistion because my tags were nearly the same as a car coming up from Mexico
Jeffery I like your country I like the majority of the people I've met in your country
Ive learnt to take the good with the bad. I'll keep on visiting your country, I have friends in your country
What I won't do is every time I read I read some thing stupid in USA Today is post the Equivilent to saying what Assholes
you are, Because your not. Nor are the Europeans Jeez I just hope this gets through to your thick skull
WE ARE HUMAN WE MAKE MISTAKES .WE DON'T NEED YOU TO REMIND US

Try living in Europe for awhile you'll enjoy it.

Gone fishing

[SabreDave 0]

I have to agree wth Zep on that one. I have spent a whack of time in western European countries and I have been in the US alot for vacation and to visit the shitload of relatives I have there.
Much more relaxing to be in Europe. From the amount of paranoid tension to the way authorities act towards the public makes it a whole different ball game.
And in response to the start of this thread...the US is the only countryI have heard about where kids under 10 years of age have been expelled from school for pointing their finger and saying "bang"!
I just got back from my 10th European trip at the very end of August. I was much more "free" to do what I wanted in Europe than I could ever be in the US. From daylight, repeated jumps from dams in Switerland to jumping cliffs in a heavy tourist and air traffic zones legally all day to being able to get a to-go cup from the pub and walk down the street or go and smoke a joint with other consenting adults without fear of a Glock in your face and cuffs on your wrists. My experiences have been that if you are hurting no one but yourself, go for it. The US gov't likes to have alot of control over the private lives of its citizens.
I will continue to make far more trips to Europe even though the US border is just 2.5 hours away. Peace

SabreDave