I'm having a little trouble keeping up...

[freeflydrew 0]

Iraq... I know we started out by invading, liberating, freeing the people, saving the free world from the threat of nuclear biological chemical weapons, democracizing the middle east, removing Saddam from power... Then the enemy over there became the old republic guards, then the insurgents, then the terrorists, then the Syrians are spilling in over the borders along with the Iranians, then the followers of that new leader, you know, the guy in the mosques in fallujah (Sadr maybe?)... I'm sure there were some inbetween, ok, but now we're talking about kiling an al-Zarqawi associate? Which associate is that, and how can we possibly know that a missile strike into a residential area killed someone who is an associate of someone else? Who's the next guy we're after, and who did I miss?

I'm having a little trouble keeping up... is it because I read the news everyday, or because I'm not keeping a current enemy timeline? Little help here, por favor.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/26/iraq.main/index.html

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(CNN) -- An early morning U.S. air strike has killed a "known associate" of Islamic militant leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq's restive Sunni Triangle region, the military said.

"A precision strike in northwest Falluja ... has taken another toll on the Zarqawi network," the U.S. military said in a statement Tuesday.

"This strike on a Zarqawi safe house further erodes the organization's capability to conduct attacks on the citizens of Falluja and Iraq."

"Multiple sources reported that a known associate of the Zarqawi network was present at the time of the strike," which occurred at 3 a.m. Tuesday (8 p.m. ET Monday).

However, a Falluja resident strongly disagreed.

"These four houses that were destroyed were empty. The families left them about a month ago," he said. "There is no one there, no Zarqawi, no militants, no mujahedeen. The plane hit (the houses) at exactly 0300 local time. Thank God there was no one there."

[Skyrad 0]

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how can we possibly know that a missile strike into a residential area killed someone who is an associate of someone else?

Didn't you know? You know everyone in the world through six degrees of seperation!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[pajarito 0]

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but now we're talking about kiling an al-Zarqawi associate? Which associate is that, and how can we possibly know that a missile strike into a residential area killed someone who is an associate of someone else? Who's the next guy we're after, and who did I miss?

Human intelligence gathering on the ground by covert operatives, maybe?

[Tonto 1]

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Human intelligence gathering on the ground by covert operatives, maybe?

That told them to bomb a house that's been empty for 3 months? How much do you pay for that kind of intelligence?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[pajarito 0]

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Human intelligence gathering on the ground by covert operatives, maybe?

That told them to bomb a house that's been empty for 3 months? How much do you pay for that kind of intelligence?

t

Maybe I read it wrong. I thought they killed a top al-Zarqawi leader. Was the building empty? I know the article says that the family who previously lived there had been gone but it also said that the building was being used as a terrorist safe house. How do you figure? I’d say their intelligence gathering was right on. I say “good job” to our guys.

[Tonto 1]

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However, a Falluja resident strongly disagreed.

"These four houses that were destroyed were empty. The families left them about a month ago," he said. "There is no one there, no Zarqawi, no militants, no mujahedeen. The plane hit (the houses) at exactly 0300 local time. Thank God there was no one there."

Is there no follow up? No autopsy, or search of the wreckage? Do you really just bomb and say "Gottem" and move on? That seems a little haphazard to me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[pajarito 0]

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However, a Falluja resident strongly disagreed.

"These four houses that were destroyed were empty. The families left them about a month ago," he said. "There is no one there, no Zarqawi, no militants, no mujahedeen. The plane hit (the houses) at exactly 0300 local time. Thank God there was no one there."

Is there no follow up? No autopsy, or search of the wreckage? Do you really just bomb and say "Gottem" and move on? That seems a little haphazard to me.

t

I'm sure damage assessment was done and, from that, a determination was made. It's war. Nothing's perfect. It’s not like the investigation of a crime in downtown Johannesburg. I'm quite sure the interviewed "locals" would say something like what was quoted above. On another occasion, they might say that there was a wedding party going on and only women and children were killed in the attack. Why would you believe a “Falluja resident” over our guys on the ground?

[Skyrad 0]

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It’s not like the investigation of a crime in downtown Johannesburg.

They gave that up a long time ago

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Tonto 1]

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It's war. Nothing's perfect. It’s not like the investigation of a crime in downtown Johannesburg

Actually - it was probably a lot like a crime investigation in downtown JHB... drive by... "yup.. That's where it happened... keep going, quick! Before we're hijacked!"

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Why would you believe a “Falluja resident” over our guys on the ground?"

I'm not sure if there are that many of our guys actually inside Fallujah, its under siege and under attack, but its not under coalition control.

Rumour and counter rumour, nothing new there then.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[pajarito 0]

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"Why would you believe a “Falluja resident” over our guys on the ground?"

I'm not sure if there are that many of our guys actually inside Fallujah, its under siege and under attack, but its not under coalition control.

Rumour and counter rumour, nothing new there then.

How little you appear to understand about special operations. Don't be naive. By the way, it doesn't take "many."

[pajarito 0]

[Skyrad 0]

Ja, and no doubt the CIA response was something like 'and do you want us to investigate this bombing?'

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[pajarito 0]

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Ja, and no doubt the CIA response was something like 'and do you want us to investigate this bombing?'

You know, I don't know that it would actually take someone going in and putting their hand on a body for confirmation. I've set off explosive charges up to 10,000lbs in size. Not much withing a certain radius of the blast is going to be moving afterwards. If it was a guess on their part, I'm sure it was a very educated one and you can probably place your bets on our side.

[Tonto 1]

It was SPOT ON! They've stolen just about everything from me but my sense of humour!

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"How little you appear to understand about special operations. Don't be naive."

True, very true, but I prefer the term 'innocent' over naive.Naive would be believing statements like "mission accomplished".

This on the subject from the Beeb.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3953443.stm

No names, no bodies, no photos, no confirmation.
Your faith is strong Pajarito.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[kallend 2,149]

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Human intelligence gathering on the ground by covert operatives, maybe?

That told them to bomb a house that's been empty for 3 months? How much do you pay for that kind of intelligence?

t

Maybe the house WAS the associate. You have to use your imagination dealing with this war.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,118]

>Why would you believe a “Falluja resident” over our guys on the ground?

Who knows more about what your neighbor does - you or the local National Guard command post?

[pajarito 0]

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No names, no bodies, no photos, no confirmation.
Your faith is strong Pajarito.

"The Force" has always been strong with me.

[pajarito 0]

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>Why would you believe a “Falluja resident” over our guys on the ground?

Who knows more about what your neighbor does - you or the local National Guard command post?

You should change sides Bill. You'd made a good Iraqi.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"The Force" has always been strong with me."
Yeah, I can sense it even from this distance.

Strong faith is by no means a character flaw.
Cya.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[pajarito 0]

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No names, no bodies, no photos, no confirmation.

By the way...how do you know this?

[pajarito 0]

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Naive would be believing statements like "mission accomplished".

There are many missions completed and accomplished within a war. Besides, that wasn't GWB's sign hung up on that ship.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"By the way...how do you know this?"

Only photo I've seen is a pile of rubble.
Number 4 here.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3954781.stm

When we (the coalition) got every other high ticket personality so far, we have been pretty quick to publish names, photos of the bodies etc.
Not this time?

Don't confuse Naivety with Suspicion.
Gotta go, maybe more info on this tomorrow.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[billvon 3,118]

>You should change sides Bill. You'd made a good Iraqi.

Why thank you! Might have to change my name to Bedou al-Von or something though.