This is the way to man-up when you're convicted of murder!

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Man waives death-penalty appeals to show remorse to victims' families

When you're guilty and you know it, don't be a fuckin' pussy and try to wrangle a way out of paying for your crimes. If you were man enough to do them, be man enough to pay the price -- as this guy did.

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RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) -- A man convicted of six slayings in one of the worst killing sprees in North Carolina history was executed early Friday.

Charles Wesley Roache, 30, had dropped all but a mandatory appeal on the trial record required by state law. Legal wrangling could have extended his life for up to five years, but Roache said he gave up all appeals to show his remorse to the survivors of his victims.

He was pronounced dead at 2:18 a.m. of lethal injection.

The only thing I wonder is, since he obviously admits guilt by virtue of "showing remorse," did he go to trial, or did he plead guilty and spare the families the worry that he might be acquitted of crimes he actually committed. The ultimate "man-upping," is when you don't even contest the fact that you did the crime, when you're caught. Looking a jury, a judge, and your victims' families in the eye and saying you are innocent when you are not is the ultimate cowardice.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Vallerina 2]

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When you're guilty and you know it, don't be a fuckin' pussy and try to wrangle a way out of paying for your crimes

I'd rather be dead than in jail for the rest of my life, so it would be more cowardly for me just to die by lethal injection. Plus, if someone killed a family member of mine, I'd rather they were guilty about it for the rest of their lives rather than a year or two going through the courts.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[rickjump1 0]

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If you were man enough to do them, be man enough to pay the price -- as this guy did.

Somewhere way back in his past he might have had a spark of decency put there by a teacher or someone who cared. It's too bad it came out after he killed those people.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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When you're guilty and you know it, don't be a fuckin' pussy and try to wrangle a way out of paying for your crimes

I'd rather be dead than in jail for the rest of my life, so it would be more cowardly for me just to die by lethal injection. Plus, if someone killed a family member of mine, I'd rather they were guilty about it for the rest of their lives rather than a year or two going through the courts.

No, I mean cowardly in the sense of, if you did it, have the balls to admit that; don't try to convince a jury to acquit you. Have the courage and honor to accept consequences -- whatever the courts say are the proper consequences -- once you've made a decision to commit a crime. This guy apparently has now done that (although I don't know if he insisted on going to trial to try to get out of punishment.)

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Guest]

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Man waives death-penalty appeals to show remorse to victims' families

When you're guilty and you know it, don't be a fuckin' pussy and try to wrangle a way out of paying for your crimes. If you were man enough to do them, be man enough to pay the price -- as this guy did.

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RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) -- A man convicted of six slayings in one of the worst killing sprees in North Carolina history was executed early Friday.

Charles Wesley Roache, 30, had dropped all but a mandatory appeal on the trial record required by state law. Legal wrangling could have extended his life for up to five years, but Roache said he gave up all appeals to show his remorse to the survivors of his victims.

He was pronounced dead at 2:18 a.m. of lethal injection.

The only thing I wonder is, since he obviously admits guilt by virtue of "showing remorse," did he go to trial, or did he plead guilty and spare the families the worry that he might be acquitted of crimes he actually committed. The ultimate "man-upping," is when you don't even contest the fact that you did the crime, when you're caught. Looking a jury, a judge, and your victims' families in the eye and saying you are innocent when you are not is the ultimate cowardice.

-Jeffrey

Seen that first-hand.

Andrew Chabrol murdered my friend, Melissa Harrington. He went to the Virginia Chair less than two years after his death sentence.

The ironic part of it was that the anti-death penalty bleeding hearts spelled his name correctly, but got hers wrong.

"Payne declined to appeal his sentence or ask for clemency. Since the death penalty was reinstated in Virginia in 1977, only Andrew Chabrol, executed in 1993, has done that.

"Basically he feels like this is the proper punishment for the crime that he has committed,'' said his lawyer, Patrick Bynum.

Andrew Chabrol
1991
Capital murder, rape, abduction
Guilty
Death
Defendant planned to abduct, rape and kill victim because she rebuffed him. He tied her spread eagled to the bed and bound and gagged her with tape. Defendant and Stanley Berkeley, supra, raped victim. Chabrol used a stun gun on victim. Victim died by suffocation and strangulation. Defendant planned to burn her body.
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You should have seen the sentencing testimony.

So sorry, but for very personal reasons, butchers get no sympathy from me.

"You must purge the evil from among you...I am the Lord thy God..." (Deuteronomy 17:7)

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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So sorry, but for very personal reasons, butchers get no sympathy from me.

"You must purge the evil from among you...I am the Lord thy God..." (Deuteronomy 17:7)

mh

Fortunately I don't have personal reasons, but I agree with you and this quote emphatically.

It's either that, or live with that evil in your world preying on you and other good people.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[crwmike 0]

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The only thing I wonder is, since he obviously admits guilt by virtue of "showing remorse," did he go to trial, or did he plead guilty and spare the families the worry that he might be acquitted of crimes he actually committed. The ultimate "man-upping," is when you don't even contest the fact that you did the crime, when you're caught. Looking a jury, a judge, and your victims' families in the eye and saying you are innocent when you are not is the ultimate cowardice.

-Jeffrey

Every death row inmate I've known (with one exception) had developed sometimes rather simple, sometimes elaborate justifications for their actions. I'm betting you would too.

As Val mentioned, the option spending the rest of your life in a 5x8 box doesn't appeal to most.

Michael

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Every death row inmate I've known (with one exception) had developed sometimes rather simple, sometimes elaborate justifications for their actions. I'm betting you would too.

As Val mentioned, the option spending the rest of your life in a 5x8 box doesn't appeal to most.

Michael

Of course, this begs the question: "How many death row inmates have you known?"

I can't say that I would come up with "justifications" or not -- but I can say that I intend to never murder anyone and I find the thought of doing so reprehensible.

If I was gonna pull a Johnny Smith, a la "The Dead Zone" (the movie, not the half-assed t.v. show), and say, assassinate some figure because I knew, and no one else did, that he was a dire threat to the world, if I failed I would at least own up to the attempt, and try to explain why I did it. That may qualify with you as a "rationale" or "justification," but remember, what I initially was complaining about was people who won't even admit they DID it. Those are the cowards. Not some guy who's on death row and comes up with a "reason" why what he did was okay. That's a different thing altogether. Some people go up for murder or manslaughter when the guy they killed really had it coming, and the homicide really was justifiable. Then there are others who did it for greed, jealousy, or outright evil and malevolence. Those are the ones who are so wrapped up in selfishness that they never admit to a court that yeah, hey, I did it and I'm sorry and I shouldn't have. Apparently the guy in this story was different?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[crwmike 0]

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Of course, this begs the question: "How many death row inmates have you known?"

Seventeen. For three years I taught ABE (Adult Basic Education) to inmates on death row at the Tennessee State Prison (5500 inmates in a facility built for 2700 ...and a murder rate of one every 18 days). Prior to that, I paid my way through undergrad school working the night shift at the Prison for the Criminally Insane (now with the colorless name of Forensic Services Division)...now these guys knew how to party!

Back to Death Row. With the exception of four who were ravingly psychotic (who the fuck knows what was going through their minds) all but one of the others admited committing the crime but strongly felt that they were essentially justified in the act (fucker was looking at me!).

Dewey Batson was the only one who assumed full responsibility for his actions. Sent home from Korea during the 'conflict' decided to surprise his wife. He did ...fucking his best friend. Grabbed a machete off the wall and chopped em up. Honor student, good service record, never been arrested. Had been on death row for more than 10 years when I met him. Locked in a 5 x 8 cell and allowed to walk in the corridor for 20 minutes once a week.

In 1972 (73?) the US Supreme court declared all death penalties in the US unconstitutional (something to do with the the process of jury selection, I believe) and BAM every inmate in the US on death row had their verdicts set aside. I'm not sure how it was accomplished but with the signature of the gov, all now had life sentences (life = possibility of parole in 13 yrs 6 mo and 1 day, BTW).

To wrap up the Dewey story, now out in general population, he signed up for college courses in the 'College Behind the Walls' program, eventually earned an associates degree in Liberal Arts, gained 'educational release' (allowed to attend UT-Nashville during the day and return to the prison at night), earned a B.A degree ...all on the GI Bill.

Sentence commuted by the gov (yep, Ray Blanton, the one in the movie 'Marie') and for many years was the Director of Veteran's Affairs at the University of Tennessee. Aw, what the hell, the Statute of Limitations has expired ...we (a collection of prison and UT employees, primarily) bought that commutation. Paid $25,000 to Gov Ray Blanton of Tennessee.

Dewey is the only success story I ever knew of. He fucked up, admitted it and never tried to bullshit his way out. I think you would have liked him. I did. More than that, I respected him.

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I can't say that I would come up with "justifications" or not -- but I can say that I intend to never murder anyone and I find the thought of doing so reprehensible.

I didn't mean to imply something deficit in your personal integrity. My intention was to point out that rationalization is a powerful mechanism for any of us. BTW, murder seldom lands you on death row. It pretty much depends on who you kill and/or how you kill them. Kill a wealthy white person, your gonna shake and bake. Kill a hooker ...hefty prison sentence. Chop the hooker into pieces and mail them to the school board ...death row.

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If I was gonna pull a Johnny Smith, a la "The Dead Zone" (the movie, not the half-assed t.v. show), and say, assassinate some figure because I knew, and no one else did, that he was a dire threat to the world, if I failed I would at least own up to the attempt, and try to explain why I did it. That may qualify with you as a "rationale" or "justification," but remember, what I initially was complaining about was people who won't even admit they DID it. Those are the cowards. Not some guy who's on death row and comes up with a "reason" why what he did was okay. That's a different thing altogether. Some people go up for murder or manslaughter when the guy they killed really had it coming, and the homicide really was justifiable. Then there are others who did it for greed, jealousy, or outright evil and malevolence. Those are the ones who are so wrapped up in selfishness that they never admit to a court that yeah, hey, I did it and I'm sorry and I shouldn't have. Apparently the guy in this story was different?

Every sociopath I've know ( dozens of them in prison and one I considered my best friend in skydiving) invariably feel that they are good guys who got screwed.

Sorry for the long response. Kinda got caught up in old memories.

Michael

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Of course, this begs the question: "How many death row inmates have you known?"

Seventeen. For three years I taught ABE (Adult Basic Education) to inmates on death row at the Tennessee State Prison (5500 inmates in a facility built for 2700 ...and a murder rate of one every 18 days).

Please don't take me to mean insult to your livelihood or you, but, do you really feel that the effort and expense paid to educate people condemned to die for criminal acts is a worthwhile pursuit? I mean in an institutional sense, not in the sense of you doing the teaching. (I, however, would much prefer teaching people who had not ever yet committed capital crimes.)

We are talking about teaching people who were murdering at a staggering rate even while inside the prison, right?!

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Back to Death Row. With the exception of four who were ravingly psychotic (who the fuck knows what was going through their minds) all but one of the others admited committing the crime but strongly felt that they were essentially justified in the act (fucker was looking at me!).

Well, I never was talking about irrational "justifications." Of course there's a blurry line somewhere here under all this, though.

I started out talking about a person who decided to "man-up" when caught for his crime. He accepted his punishment because the TRUTH is, he DID KILL THEM.

Those who try to rationalize such acts, if they were not committed in self defense, are out of their minds by definition.

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Dewey Batson was the only one who assumed full responsibility for his actions. Sent home from Korea during the 'conflict' decided to surprise his wife. He did ...fucking his best friend. Grabbed a machete off the wall and chopped em up.

And to this day, they say he walks the woods outside Grantham Prison... looking for teenagers making out in the backs of cars, hunters lost off the trails, hapless birdwatchers... And his rusty machete is as sharp as it ever was.......

No, really, I guess this was before people could get off for "temporary insanity" for something like that? Seems unfair. I mean, we have to send people like that away, I guess, or else accept this type of response as "appropriate" if someone is thusly "wronged." Maybe there's something in the bible that allows for murdering your wife and her lover -- or maybe I'm thinking of the Koran -- but I know that to me, it falls under the heading of, "Life can fuck you over; shit happens," and all that. You don't go murdering for it. And if you DO HAVE the capacity to murder over that, rather than go and sulk and hate women for a while or something, then yes, society IS better served by removing you from the population in one way or another.

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Every sociopath I've know ( dozens of them in prison and one I considered my best friend in skydiving) invariably feel that they are good guys who got screwed.

What do you think makes some people sociopaths like the dozens you've known, and others not? Is it brain chemistry? Genetic makeup dictating behavior? Or is it upbringing and environmental factors? And once someone is determined to be made thus, what is your personal feeling about putting them to death so that they cannot harm the rest of society? You sound like you could probably tell some harrowing stories of what these people are capable of doing to innocents. With that threat present, and with the impossibility of making escape and/or release 100% impossible, why not execute?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[crwmike 0]

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Please don't take me to mean insult to your livelihood or you, but, do you really feel that the effort and expense paid to educate people condemned to die for criminal acts is a worthwhile pursuit? I mean in an institutional sense, not in the sense of you doing the teaching. (I, however, would much prefer teaching people who had not ever yet committed capital crimes.)

No offense. That was what I did over 30 years ago, when I thought the world wanted to be saved and that I could be a part of it. Now I just try to patch people up. No judgment, no expectations. What they do after I'm done is none of my business.

Was it worth the cost and effort? Depends on what you value, or what we, as a society, value.

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We are talking about teaching people who were murdering at a staggering rate even while inside the prison, right?!

Well, not the death row guys. Not that they might not enjoy it, but they never had contact with other inmates. I thought teaching them how to read might be a good thing.

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Those who try to rationalize such acts, if they were not committed in self defense, are out of their minds by definition

That's the thing about rationalization, it's totally convincing ...for the person doing it.

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No, really, I guess this was before people could get off for "temporary insanity" for something like that? Seems unfair. I mean, we have to send people like that away, I guess, or else accept this type of response as "appropriate" if someone is thusly "wronged." Maybe there's something in the bible that allows for murdering your wife and her lover -- or maybe I'm thinking of the Koran -- but I know that to me, it falls under the heading of, "Life can fuck you over; shit happens," and all that. You don't go murdering for it. And if you DO HAVE the capacity to murder over that, rather than go and sulk and hate women for a while or something, then yes, society IS better served by removing you from the population in one way or another.

Agreed. From what I know about the savage life behind bars, the more humane thing to do would be to just kill them. My faculty advisor in criminology once said that if you are going to send someone to prison for more than a few years, never, ever let them out, for everything that is human and worthwhile is gone.

In my youthful innocence and ignorance, I strongly disagreed with his statement. I know the truth of it now. I wonder how many reading this think they do not have the capacity to murder? The media has lead us to view those on death row as raving sociopaths and some are ...and at least as many were good citizens who never broke the law before. Should we just excuse them? Of course not.

I have no problem with the death penalty. In reality, if the goal is to protect society, we would better accomplish that goal by killing the habitual criminals in the general prison population than the ones that went beserk for one minute of their lives.

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What do you think makes some people sociopaths like the dozens you've known, and others not? Is it brain chemistry? Genetic makeup dictating behavior? Or is it upbringing and environmental factors?

I don't know, dude. Born with a head full of bad wiring, not hugged enough as a child, dopamine receptors not doing the job? My best guess is 'All of the above'. They come from good families, bad families, rich poor, all ethnicities. They come in two basic flavors:

Disorganized asocial: Mostly the ones you see in prison. Don't really have it together enough to resist impulses that tend to bring them to the attention of society.

Organized asocial: Intelligent, charming mutherfuckers, who size up what you want and need to hear and feed it to you. They are very popular with most people who know them. They seldom get caught.
Cross one and s/he will never, ever pass on the opportunity to fuck you up if they can get away with it. They practice their 'trade' smoothly, secretly and with unbelieveable violence. It is said that the only emotion they have is revenge. "I love you" has about as much emotional impact as "do you want a cup of coffee" ...probably less.

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And once someone is determined to be made thus, what is your personal feeling about putting them to death so that they cannot harm the rest of society?

Kill em. Just like you would a rabid dog.

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You sound like you could probably tell some harrowing stories of what these people are capable of doing to innocents. With that threat present, and with the impossibility of making escape and/or release 100% impossible, why not execute?

With what I know of sociopaths, I'd consider it a civic duty to kill them. If the duty came to me, I'd do it ... then go have a nice lunch to celebrate making the world a better place. Thing is, sociopaths aren't all that rare and the vast majority are not institutionalized.

Michael