Sniper Rifle

[Tonto 1]

You're dreaming if you think a 30-06 will work out to 2000 yards out of a rifle.

Even calibres like 300 Win Mag and 7 mil Rem Mag have given up half a klick before that. Although many calibres will go that far (Look at Bisley) what they'll reliably knock down is another story.

308 (Nato 7.62) is working hard on a head shot at 500 m and a body shot at 800.
30-06 at 2000 means you've thought little about wind, thermal lift, or a host of other variables a 180gr bullet is exposed to during flight time over the 3.5 + seconds it will take to cover 2000m, nor what your target will choose to do during that time, unless you're shooting at someone taking a dump.

At 2000m even .50BMG flight time is well over 2 seconds with a muzzle velocity +_ 850mps and a far heavier bullet of around 640gr whose velocity decays much slower than a sub 200gr projectile. Barret state the effective range of the .50 BMG round as 1830m although it will reach nearly 7000m. The fact that a kill has been achieved at nearly 1000m past the effective range means NOTHING. If you only had 1 shot, you'd be a fool to take it at that range, regardless of the calibre you were using.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[rhino 0]

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308 (Nato 7.62) is working hard on a head shot at 500 m and a body shot at 800.

500m is NOTHING for a 7.62,,, hell from 500 yards I can hit a body center mass 20 out of 20 times with an open sight m-16. Last 5 rifle quals were 100% from 500 yards in the prone.

With my 30-06 I can easily make twice as accurate shots from 2 times that distance. I'd bet money I can land 9 out of 10 in the head from 1,000 yards. 1,000 to 1,500 and I REALLY need to take my time and work, I've had good groups and I've had o.k. groups from 1,500. I want to get good at 1,500 yards to 2,000 yards but don't know if my 30-06 is the best weapon for it.

My record in the Marines "not all that impressive" was 7th award expert rifleman and 6th award expert postil shot. One of the funnest things I got to do while in the Marines was shoot in the rifle and pistol competitions for 6 months... That was 6 months of nothing but shooting.. Up at 4am and home at 7pm 5 sometimes 6 days a week. I wanted sniper school SOO BADLY but wasn't allowed because I wasn't a grunt or an MP. That sucked...

Rhino

[Kennedy 0]

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I'm talking pure range and stopping power...

Optimal shot I am looking for is between 1200-1700 yards. More on the longer end. 2000+ yards would be even better. I'm looking for extreme range...

If you really just want to reach out and touch someone, the .30-06 is certainly not your best choice. As much as I appreciate the cartridge (it's staying power, history, versatility, etc), it hardly has the juice for >1500 yards.

At that range, you're going to want something with a lot more oomph.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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With my 30-06 I can easily make twice as accurate shots from 2 times that distance. I'd bet money I can land 9 out of 10 in the head from 1,000 yards.

If you're shooting numbers like that, you belong at Camp Perry next year.

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shoot in the rifle and pistol competitions for 6 months... That was 6 months of nothing but shooting..

Forget the Camp Perry comment.

And I thought I was lucky because an uncle owned a range and seriously encouraged my interest.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Tonto 1]

You sound like the "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." motivational speaker.

1 MOA is 10 inches at 1000m. The kill area on a head is a lot smaller than 10 inches. Shattered zygoma's and mandables don't count as headshots in my book. 1 MOA at 2000m is 20 inches, wider than most men are from shoulder bone to shoulder bone when they're facing directly towards or away from you. People move. They breathe. They scratch. They sneeze and they wave their arms around when they talk. They sway when they stand. Put a camera helmet on someone for an hour, and then show me the footage where their head is as still as your target on the range for 3.5 seconds + the time it takes you to make the desision and aquire and execute the shot.

There is no shortage of people who claim to be better than others. Lots of people will argue that their rifle shoots straighter than another. Many will claim one calibre over another. Few claim all three, but the strength of your beliefs are well known on this site and are not in question.

I'll take your money on the 9 out of 10 on a head sized target, at 1000 yards, on any day, wind blowing, hot, raining, misty, low light, when you're tired, or hungry. I think you're talking 10am on a Saturday morning, in good light, at a known range, with little or no wind after a good night's sleep with your own handloads. What we do on the range and in the feild will always be worlds apart dispite our best efforts to narrow the gap.

You're a talented marksman and you're in love with your 30-06. I'm happy for you, and your belief in it's capabilities to effectively and reliably reach out to 2000m. You remind me of a friend I had at 13 who used to hunt Impala with his .22 LR, and get them too. Most of the time. Many others ran off into the bush to die hours later, never to be found. He never bragged about those. Those simply didn't count.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[namgrunt 0]

depends ON TARGET

BEST FOR THE BUCK

SAVAGE TACTICAL in 308 CHOAT super sniper stock
with a nightforce extreme scope

1/4 inch groups at 100 yds
shoot 20 oz. softdrink bottles at 600 yds
eggs at 300 yds.
this with 57 year old eyes and bifocles

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[JohnRich 4]

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But when it comes to driving, skydiving, motorcycling, or anything else dangerous that I do, skill I can plan for -- it hugely increases the chance that
a. I'll recognize luck when it slaps me in the face
b. I'll know what to do with it.
c. I can make the best from bad luck too.

So I'll take skill too.

Bingo! One of those early "Skies Call" books has a quote in it, about how the best competitors "make their own luck". In other words, like you say, by knowing their stuff to the n'th degree, they can take advantage of conditions better than anyone else. It isn't really blind luck - it's just that they know their craft better than anyone else. So if you're one of the other's, it appears to be blind luck to you...

[tunaplanet 0]

M88 .50 PIP is one of the very best.

However, when it comes to the "best", the target, terrain, distance, MOE, etc... are all important factors.

Forty-two

[rhino 0]

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http://club.guns.ru/eng/barrett/rifleb.htm

This is what I am getting :). .338 Lapua..

[Jimbo 0]

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Optimal shot I am looking for is between 1200-1700 yards. More on the longer end. 2000+ yards would be even better. I'm looking for extreme range...

Who you looking to kill, Rhino?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[miked10270 0]

Hmmm...

"Best" sniper rifle is such a personal choice and must change with each individual shots priorities. The BIG sniper rifles like the Barrett .50, 14.2mm & 20mm rifles may have it on absolute range and stopping power, but who wants to spend a day in wet heather and streams carrying one?

Perhaps the purest definition of "best" for sniper rifles really should be most accurate over longest range.

Let's also assume a "Skull" or "Brain" shot being the required degree of accuracy. Let's also assume that the rifle is fixed and completely steady. Let's also assume for the sake of consistency that the shot is taken through still air of a standard temperature & pressure, with the barrel & bolt of the weapon also at a standard temperature.
In effect, let's remove ALL variables other than the range at which the weapon will deliver the required 5" brain shot.

At this point, the fundamental thing is the range at which the bullet enters the transonic region since that's where bullet instability will occur and accuracy ends. This is a feature of initial bullet energy, aerodynamic drag, and bullet weight.

The weapon that delivers the heaviest most aerodynamic bullet with the greatest bullet energy is the most accurate.

Leaving aside small matters such as cost, I remember that between the wars, Mannlicher actually produced some hunting rifles that were taper bore, with rifling which increased in rate toward the muzzle! The idea was to produce a bullet with increased velocity and spin, but it was at extreme high cost. Never mind "match loading", imagine having to employ a Watchmaker / Jeweller to manufacture your multi-component bullets!!!

So... Cost no object? I'll start with that South African rifle chambered for 20mm. I'll have the barrel 110cm long with the bore tapered down to 14mm at the muzzle and the rifling starting 1cm down the barrel with no twist at the chamber end increasing to 1 turn in 300mm at the muzzle. The cartridge is match loaded for consistency and the tungsten "spindle" is waisted 60% back from the nose and is carried in a 7 part alloy sabot (base and 6 sides).

Hopefully the spindle (bullet) is gonna stay well supersonic for 3,000 - 4,000m (!!!) And with the weight is gonna keep a lot of it's energy.

Anyway... There's MY dream!
Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[GQ_jumper 4]

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What would you consider to be the best sniper rifle?

Other than the Barret 50 cal obviously.

The Barret is an excellent sniper system but is not made for anti-personnel. Not to say it doesn't do a great job at that but it is meant to disable heavy vehicles. My personal fav is the M24, it is an excellent all around sniper weapon, that is very reliable and so well built that it will still fire accurately far beyond what the manufacturer says it can handle.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[DZJ 0]

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Anyway... There's MY dream!
Mike.

A discerning customer, obviously!

I'm feeling very humble, being happy to just blat away with .22LR at 25 yards!

[Tonto 1]

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I'm feeling very humble, being happy to just blat away with .22LR at 25 yards!

And where you will learn more than 90% of the markmanship skills you need to shoot at 1000m.

A .22 LR should be the 1st rifle you buy, and the last you should sell.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Kennedy 0]

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I'm feeling very humble, being happy to just blat away with .22LR at 25 yards!

And where you will learn more than 90% of the markmanship skills you need to shoot at 1000m.

A .22 LR should be the 1st rifle you buy, and the last you should sell.

Thus endeth the sremon. Amen.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*