"God wanted me to be President"...

[TypicalFish 0]

I have heard numerous allusions to GWB making a statement along these lines; does anyone have the original quote and its context?

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

I hear God wants the Red Sox to win it in 5.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[TypicalFish 0]

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I hear God wants the Red Sox to win it in 5.

So it is written, so it shall be done...

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I hear God wants the Red Sox to win it in 5.

So it is written, so it shall be done...

I don't know, Allah is betting the over on the Yankees.

Any word on what Bhudda says on this?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[wmw999 2,589]

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I hear God wants the Red Sox to win it in 5.

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So it is written, so it shall be done...

That's so there can be a Red Sox/Astros world series.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[TypicalFish 0]

Jeez, all I wanted was an answer to a simple question...

SOMEBODY must know...

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[badenhop 0]

God bless you.
God bless America.
God bless George W. Bush.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I've heard that GWB has a close relationship with his God and often seeks his guidance. Nothing too alarming here as many people have this sort of relationship with their God. But what's even more scary is this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107258,00.html

I guess Pat Robertson (the fruitcake from the 700 Club) has been told by God (his God) that GWB will win the election in a landslide. What's he going to do if Kerry wins? Say that God was wrong? LOL ... that'll open up a whole can of worms.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kinney29 0]

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God bless you.
God bless America.
God bless George W. Bush.

And God Bless the Yankees!

[christelsabine 1]

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107258,00.html

OMG. I have to check my direct link to heaven. There are few questions to be asked.
ROFLMAO

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I guess Pat Robertson (the fruitcake from the 700 Club) has been told by God (his God) that GWB will win the election in a landslide. What's he going to do if Kerry wins? Say that God was wrong? LOL ... that'll open up a whole can of worms

He will change his telephone number ..

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Skyrad 0]

I pray and I have it on good authority that God doesn't mind that GW wants the job; in fact hes more concerned that Tony Blair wants his job!!!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mnischalke 0]

From here

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February 12, 2003
George Bush's Theology: Does President Believe He Has Divine Mandate?

by Deborah Caldwell
Religion News Service

In the spring of 1999, as George W. Bush was about to announce his run for President, he agreed to be interviewed about his religious faith -- grudgingly. "I want people to judge me on my deeds, not how I try to define myself as a religious person of words."

It's hard to believe that's the same George W. Bush as now. Since taking office -- and especially in the last weeks -- Bush's personal faith has turned highly public, arguably more so than any modern president. What's important is not that Bush is talking about God but that he's talking about him differently. We are witnessing a shift in Bush's theology – from talking mostly about a Wesleyan theology of "personal transformation" to describing a Calvinist "divine plan" laid out by a sovereign God for the country and himself. This shift has the potential to affect Bush's approach to terrorism, Iraq and his presidency.

On Thursday (Feb.6) at the National Prayer Breakfast, for instance, Bush said, "we can be confident in the ways of Providence. ... Behind all of life and all of history, there's a dedication and purpose, set by the hand of a just and faithful God."

Calvin, whose ideas are critical to contemporary evangelical thought, focused on the idea of a powerful God who governs
"the vast machinery of the whole world."

Bush has made several statements indicating he believes God is involved in world events and that he and America have a divinely guided mission:

-- After Bush's Sept. 20, 2001, speech to Congress, Bush speechwriter Mike Gerson called the president and said: "Mr. President, when I saw you on television, I thought -- God wanted you there." "He wants us all here, Gerson," the president responded.

In that speech, Bush said, "Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." The implication: God will intervene on the world stage, mediating between good and evil.

At the prayer breakfast, during which he talked about God's impact on history, he also said, he felt "the presence of the Almighty" while comforting the families of the shuttle astronauts during the Houston memorial service on Feb. 4.

-- In his State of the Union address last month, Bush said the nation puts its confidence in the loving God "behind all of life, and all of history" and that "we go forward with confidence, because this call of history has come to the right country. May He guide us now."

In addition to these public statements indicating a divine intervention in world events, there is evidence Bush believes his election as president was a result of God's acts.

A month after the World Trade Center attack, World Magazine, a conservative Christian publication, quoted Tim Goeglein, deputy director of White House public liaison, saying, "I think President Bush is God's man at this hour, and I say this with a great sense of humility." Time magazine reported, "Privately, Bush even talked of being chosen by the grace of God to lead at that moment." The net effect is a theology that seems to imply that God is intervening in events, is on America's side, and has chosen Bush to be in the White House at this critical moment.

"All sorts of warning signals ought to go off when a sense of personal chosenness and calling gets translated into a sense of calling and mission for a nation," says Robin Lovin, a United Methodist ethicist and professor of religion and political thought at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. Lovin says what the president seems to be lacking is theological humility and an awareness of moral ambiguity.

Richard Land, a top Southern Baptist leader with close ties to the White House, argues that Bush's sense of divine oversight is part of why he has become such a good wartime leader. He brings a moral clarity and self-confidence that inspires Americans and scares enemies. "We don't inhabit that relativist universe (of European leaders)," Land says. "We really believe some things are good and some things bad."

It's even possible that Bush's belief in America's moral rightness makes the country's military threats seem more genuine because the world thinks Bush is "on a mission."

Presidents have always used Scripture in their speeches as a source of poetry and morality, according to Michael Waldman, President Clinton's chief speechwriter, author of "POTUS Speaks" and now a visiting professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

Lincoln, he says, was the first president to use the Bible extensively in his speeches, but one of the main reasons was that his audience knew the Bible -- Lincoln was using what was then common language. Theodore Roosevelt, in his 1912 speech to the Progressive Party, closed with these words: "We stand at the edge of Armageddon." Carter, Reagan and Clinton all used Scripture, but Waldman says their use was more as a "grace note."

Bush is different, because he uses theology as the guts of his argument. "That's very unusual in the long sweep of American history," Waldman says.

Bush has clearly seen a divine aspect to his presidency since before he ran. Many Americans know the president had a religious conversion at age 39, when he, as he describes it, "came to the Lord" after a weekend of talks with the Rev. Billy Graham. Within a year, he gave up drinking and joined a men's Bible study group at First United Methodist Church in Midland, Texas. From that point on, he has often said, his Christian faith has grown.

Less well known is that, in 1995, soon after he was elected Texas governor, Bush sent a memo to his staff, asking them to stop by his office to look at a painting entitled "A Charge to Keep" by W.H.D. Koerner, lent to him by Joe O'Neill, a friend from Midland. The painting is based on the Charles Wesley hymn of the same name, and Bush told his staff he especially liked the second verse: "To serve the present age, my calling to fulfill; O may it all my powers engage to do my Master's will." Bush said those words represented their mission. "What adds complete life to the painting for me is the message of Charles Wesley that we serve One greater than ourselves."

By 1999, Bush was saying he believed in a "divine plan that supersedes all human plans." He talked of being inspired to run for president by a sermon delivered by the Rev. Mark Craig, pastor of Bush's Dallas congregation, Highland Park United Methodist Church.

Craig talked about the reluctance of Moses to become a leader. But, said Mr. Craig, then as now, people were "starved for leadership" -- leaders who sacrifice to do the right thing. Bush said the sermon "spoke directly to my heart and talked about a higher calling." But in 1999, as he prepared to run for president, he was quick to add in an interview: "Elections are determined by human beings."

Richard Land recalls being part of a group of about a dozen people who met after Bush's second inauguration as Texas governor in 1999.

At the time, everyone in Texas was talking about Bush's potential to become the next president. During the meeting, Land says, Bush said, "I believe God wants me to be president, but if that doesn't happen, it's OK." Land points out that Bush didn't say that God actually wanted him to be president. He said he believed God wanted him to be president.

During World War II, the American Protestant thinker Reinhold Niebuhr wrote about God's role in political decision-making. He believed every political leader and every political system falls short of absolute justice -- that the Allies didn't represent absolute right and Hitler didn't represent absolute evil because all of us, as humans, stand under the ultimate judgment of God. That doesn't mean politicians can't make judgments based on what they believe is right; it does mean they need to understand that their position isn't absolutely morally clear.

"Sometimes Bush comes close to crossing the line of trying to serve the nation as its religious leader, rather than its political leader," says C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance, a clergy-led liberal lobbying group.

Certainly, European leaders seem to be bothered by Bush's rhetoric and it possibly does contribute to a sense in Islamic countries that Bush is on an anti-Islamic "crusade."

Radwan Masmoudi, executive director of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, worries about it. "Muslims, all over the world, are very concerned that the war on terrorism is being hijacked by right-wing fundamentalists, and transformed into a war, or at least a conflict, with Islam. President Bush is a man of faith, and that is a positive attribute, but he also needs to learn about and respect the other faiths, including Islam, in order to represent and serve all Americans."

In hindsight, even Bush's inaugural address presaged his emerging theology. He quoted a colonist who wrote to Thomas Jefferson that "We know the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong. Do you not think an angel rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm?" Then Bush said: "Much time has passed since Jefferson arrived for his inauguration. The years and changes accumulate, but the themes of this day he would know, `our nation's grand story of courage and its simple dream of dignity.'

"We are not this story's author, who fills time and eternity with his purpose. Yet his purpose is achieved in our duty, and our duty is fulfilled in service to one another. Never tiring, never yielding, never finishing, we renew that purpose today; to make our country more just and generous; to affirm the dignity of our lives and every life.

"This work continues. This story goes on. And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm."
________________________
This article originally appeared on Beliefnet
(www.beliefnet.com).

Deborah Caldwell is Beliefnet's senior religion producer.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[christelsabine 1]

Hi, pls carefully consider that TBlair was that ill ..!

Have some patience now, he's preparing himself for that job now

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[lawrocket 3]

Dayum, Canuck. I had no idea that Pat Robertson is now claiming the ability to prophesy. Add "prophet" to his list.

"Beware false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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I hear God wants the Red Sox to win it in 5.

So it is written, so it shall be done...

I don't know, Allah is betting the over on the Yankees.

Any word on what Bhudda says on this?

I thought God and Allah were the same chap according to both set's of scriptures?

[crwmike 0]

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I have heard numerous allusions to GWB making a statement along these lines; does anyone have the original quote and its context?

Never heard Bush say that, but as a Stephen King fan, am chilled by the quotes from 'The Dead Zone'


--------------------------------

Greg Stillson : I have had a vision that I am going to be President of the United States someday. And nobody, and I mean *nobody* is going to stop me!

Greg Stillson : Put your hand on the scanning screen, and you'll go down in history with me!

Five Star General : As what? The world's greatest mass murderers?

Greg Stillson : You cowardly bastard! You're not the voice of the people, I am the voice of the people! The people speak through me, not you!

Greg Stillson : You put your god damn hand on that scanning screen, or I'll hack it off and put it on for you!

Sonny Elliman : Complete the sequence, Mr. President.


Greg Stillson : The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah!

--------------------------------





Michael

[FallRate 0]

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I thought God and Allah were the same chap according to both set's of scriptures?

Yep. The God of Abraham/Ibrahem. Slight differences in perception though...Christians believing in the Holy Trinity...Muslims and Jews believing God to be undivided. Definitely differences of opinion worth killing each other over.

FallRate

[pajarito 0]

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I thought God and Allah were the same chap according to both set's of scriptures?

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Yep. The God of Abraham/Ibrahem. Slight differences in perception though...Christians believing in the Holy Trinity...Muslims and Jews believing God to be undivided.

Christianity declares only one God. It is monotheistic just like Judaism or Islam. The Trinity does not signify “division” as you state. It simply expresses that God has shown himself to us in three different forms (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). It is true that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity share some of the same religious text; however, the religions are not compatible based on that. Christians believe that God became the man Jesus, and that belief, trust, and obedience to him alone is the only way for salvation. Muslims don’t accept that Jesus was crucified, killed, or rose from the dead. Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is the only way for man to experience God, Jesus is equal with God, or that Jesus is God. These were all claims made by Jesus.

Either:
- Jesus is who he claimed to be.
- He was deceived as to whom he believed himself to be.
- Or he was a liar.

Christian God:
- If Jesus did not die on a cross, the Christian God is a false God.
- If God did not raise Jesus from the dead after 3 days, the Christian God is a false God.
- If Jesus is not the only way to God, the Christian God is a false God.
- If Jesus is not coequal with God, the Christian God is a false God.
- If Jesus was deceived as to whom He was, the Christian God is a false God.
- If Jesus was a liar, the Christian God is a false God.

Muslim God:
- If Jesus did die on a cross, and God raised Him from the dead after 3 days, the Muslim God is a false God.
- If Jesus is the only way to God, the Muslim God is a false God.
- If Jesus is coequal with God, the Muslim God is a false God.
- If Jesus was not deceived as to whom He was, the Muslim God is a false God.
- If Jesus was not a liar, the Muslim God is a false God.

Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of God and pay reverence to him in their texts as such but that Mohammed was the final prophet. If Jesus made false claims of this magnitude and isn’t in fact who he claims to be, then how can he be considered a good prophet of the Muslims?

If Jesus is who he claims to be and what he said is true, then:

- The god of Islam is not the same as the God of Christians.
- All roads do not lead to god. Jesus is “the way, the truth, and the light” and no one comes to God except through him.
- The god of Islam is a false god and Mohammed is a false prophet.

Saying that God and Allah are one and of the same is too simple a view and it is inaccurate.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I accept what you say in you post but follow different logic.

Both religions follow the same "God" - it's just that at some point a split in opinion occurred. Some men believed Jesus. Some men believed Mohammed. Men are fallible so at least some must be wrong.

The fact that according to each religion the other is wrong is not evidence that the entity that started it all cannot be the same in each belief. The "God" is the same, but at some point some men have made a mistake as to which entities make up that "God".

You're right to point out the differences in the two ideologies, but those are differences in opinion created by men. They do not change the fact that to begin with, before both Jesus and Mohammed, the two religions essentially worshiped the same entity.

[wmw999 2,589]

I look at a lot of theology as being the old blind-men-describing-an-elephant analogy. Each one can feel a different part, but the elephant is too big for any of them to really grasp what it is, what it looks like, or have a good overall picture. Each one is describing what he feels, and it's real to him.

Obviously, to go with this, I think the Bible and Koran are a creation of man. God-inspired possibly, but definitely a creation of man. Along with other sacred texts.

Works for me. If there is a deity who is so much more complex and multidimensional than I am equipped to understand, why would any book he provided to us one-dimensional creations be any more than a simplification directed at a single group of people?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pajarito 0]

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Both religions follow the same "God" - it's just that at some point a split in opinion occurred. Some men believed Jesus. Some men believed Mohammed. Men are fallible so at least some must be wrong.

The fact that according to each religion the other is wrong is not evidence that the entity that started it all cannot be the same in each belief. The "God" is the same, but at some point some men have made a mistake as to which entities make up that "God".

You're right to point out the differences in the two ideologies, but those are differences in opinion created by men. They do not change the fact that to begin with, before both Jesus and Mohammed, the two religions essentially worshiped the same entity.

Ok, I buy that both peoples were at one time the same and worshiped the same God. However, that has not been the case for over 800 years. I would argue that it’s not just the prophets or “entities that make up that God” where they now differ. I would say the very nature of the God they worship is not the same as the one of Christianity. If one is true, then the other must be false. The following illustrates my point.

God / Allah

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We can easily see the huge difference between the God of Islam and the God of the Bible. In Islam, God does not love all people. In the Bible, God does love all people. In Islam, Allah did not die for the sins of those who were not his. In the Bible, God did do that. In Islam, Allah has not performed the greatest act of love. In the Bible, God did exactly that.

Compare and contrast God & Allah

Qur'an (Islam):

"Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith," (2:98, Trans. Yusuf Ali)

"Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers," 3:32, Trans. Shakir).

Bible (Christianity):

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life," (John 3:16).

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.’ 44 "But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you 45 in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? 47 "And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matt. 5:43-48).

[jakee 1,596]

He has given us.... His shoe!!!

A short study on religious differences

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[mr2mk1g 10]

No, no. I’m not saying they are the same religion at all, simply that there is the same central deity common to both. Other details differ to the point that they are vastly different religions as a whole.

We agree that at some point in history both religions worshiped the same being. Now has that being changed at all? Is “God” still “God”? Has He been changed by the fact that some people paint him one colour, and others paint him another?

Let’s just assume for a moment that God is still the same being as He was thousands of years ago. We then have one group of people who worship him correctly, and correctly revere the true profits and emanations of that one God; and another group of people who are incorrect in the path they have taken, following false profits and so forth.

Do these erroneous beliefs of mere men alter who God is? Is He not above the influence of man? Surely the simple belief of some men cannot have any effect on God himself. They are just incorrect beliefs – God does not actually change in line with those miss held beliefs – He is God. Beyond influence.

If both religions once worshiped the one deity, they must still do so as the deity has not changed. It is merely that one or the other religions is wrong in its perception.

The fact that one group is wrong about relatively minor details about the ship as a whole whilst others are correct does not detract from the fact that it’s still the same bloke at the helm in both versions.

As to your quotes - go back to the Old Testament and pull some quotes of God’s brutality at its greatest. He’s the same God in both books.

[pajarito 0]

I agree that there used to be the same common deity with regards to the peoples that now comprise the two different religions. You’re correct in that God is eternal and unchanging. Men, however, do change. It is from the people’s or worshiper’s perspective that I’m talking. If Mohammed is a false prophet, then his “core” teachings are misleading and are against what the true God intended (I’m not saying that all is bad in the teachings of Islam). If both religions once worshiped the same deity but one lost focus of who God really is to the point that the very nature of God in their perception of him has changed, then are they at that point really worshiping the same God or do they just think they are? I say they’re not.

[billvon 3,120]

>Compare and contrast God & Allah

Joshua 11:20 - For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Ezekiel 6:12-13 - He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know that I am the LORD, when their people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak-places where they offered fragrant incense to all their idols.

Deuteronomy 20:10-18 - When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

Isaiah 13:12-16 -
I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the LORD Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.

Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
each will return to his own people,
each will flee to his native land.
Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

"Their infants shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes" - quite an image.