rhino 0 #1 October 12, 2004 so sad.... NOT!! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6228150/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #2 October 12, 2004 So what's the problem?__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #3 October 12, 2004 "So what's the problem? " It sets a dangerous president.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #4 October 12, 2004 Quote"So what's the problem? " It sets a dangerous president. Don't you mean "Precedent"?....mmmmmm...did you go to George W. Bush School? __________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #5 October 12, 2004 QuoteQuote"So what's the problem? " It sets a dangerous president. Don't you mean "Precedent"?....mmmmmm...did you go to George W. Bush School? I think he spelled it exactly as he intended. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #6 October 12, 2004 It is incredibly sad and incredibly unacceptable. Each of those prisoners, no matter how despicable, should receive the same treatment that we want our prisoners in other countries to receive. We still point to Argentina's desaparecidos as an example of what a dictatorship does. Yes, it is up to us to do it first. If we want to be a beacon of freedom, then the light has to be able to shine everywhere. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #7 October 12, 2004 Moi? I don't think they have 'disappeared' as the in various South American states. As Wendy points out this would be bad, very bad, for US leaders, present and future. It will also act as another rallying flag for the malcontents the coalition are trying to supress in Iraq and around the world. Ultimately, such rumours, or even facts if they have indeed 'disappeared' will result in more American citizens being hurt, and really, at the end of the day, nobody wants that. So Ivan and Rhino, its not a good thing.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #8 October 12, 2004 The "missing" terrorists have probably fared a lot better than the unarmed aid workers,engineers,truck drivers,translators etc. that Al Qaeda has seen fit to murder in the name of Allah. No crying towel needed hereMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #9 October 12, 2004 Can you see that some left leaning people are just quick to give these rugrats comfort when a rumor arises?. Well, I guess to their point of view it is ok that AQ also includes schools full of children when plotting their "righteous" plans."According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #10 October 12, 2004 "Can you see that some left leaning people are just quick to give these rugrats comfort when a rumor arises?" You talking about me? For the record, I'm not "left leaning", I'm well and truly left.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #11 October 12, 2004 We cannot hold others to a different standard than we hold ourselves to. I'm not particularly interested in the well-being of these particular people, but I am interested in our credibility which is obviously suffering. These kinds of incidents only hurt us, imho. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #12 October 12, 2004 For the record, I'm not "left leaning", I'm well and truly left. and a sheep shaggin,bloody socialist as well,I'd wagerMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #13 October 12, 2004 QuoteEach of those prisoners, no matter how despicable, should receive the same treatment that we want our prisoners in other countries to receive. Yes, that would be ideal, however is not and it WILL NOT be the case. QuoteYes, it is up to us to do it first. If we want to be a beacon of freedom, then the light has to be able to shine everywhere. Wendy W. Agree, but then again, we should stop "magnifying" the few mistakes some of us make and focus on the GOOD we are doing. I'm not condoning torture or mistreatment to prisoners we keep, but exagerating any action is bad too.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #14 October 12, 2004 Prisoner treatment is pretty much on the "no deviations allowed" list. It's not that we have to give them TVs and massages (reruns of "Saved by the Bell" would be considered torture). Once we start pointing fingers at others, we have to remember that more fingers are pointing at us, and we have to be perfect. Which means that if a problem is found (no one is perfect), we have to investigate it vigorously and thoroughly, and not try to hide it under the rug. If the first response to hints of problems at Abu Ghraib had been an investigation like ended up happening there wouldn't have been nearly as big a shitstorm. A shitstorm still yes, but they wouldn't have been able to add "cover up" to it. And if our government shows itself as keeping good track of the prisoners in its custody, and being forthright, then if we can show when we turned them over to (for example) Pakistan, it's no longer our problem. But if we just say "sorry, we lost them and we don't have to answer to you because we don't consider them to be either prisoners of war or subject to American law" we're just inviting others to play the same games as we're playing. Only those other people aren't as nice, and they'll be playing with our citizens. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #15 October 12, 2004 QuotePrisoner treatment is pretty much on the "no deviations allowed" list. Unless they are enemies of the state.. Which terrorists are... You can bet your fanny that we have hundreds of terrorists in custody that the red cross weenies will never know about. Terrorists are not human. They are not people. They do not have rights... They are a means of getting information we need. PERIOD... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #16 October 12, 2004 This is why they shouldn't be freed... This Saudi asshole we just took US citizenship away from will be the next Bin Laden.. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135176,00.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #17 October 12, 2004 QuoteUnless they are enemies of the state.. Which terrorists are... You can bet your fanny that we have hundreds of terrorists in custody that the red cross weenies will never know about. I'm sure glad you have nothing to do with prisoner administration. Because that's really unacceptable. Is anything you get away with OK? That's bullshit too. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #18 October 12, 2004 QuoteI'm sure glad you have nothing to do with prisoner administration. Because that's really unacceptable. Is anything you get away with OK? That's bullshit too. If you catch a man in the mall, with explosives strapped to him, and you know he is a terrorist then HE HAS NO RIGHTS. That is TOTALLY acceptable. KNOWN terrorists should be treated differently than "suspected" terrorists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #19 October 12, 2004 Bullshit. Our country was founded on the rule of law, and the law in the country is innocent until proven guilty. Laws are only good if they apply to everyone, not just the people one thinks they should apply to. I agree they are guilty based on the evidence. Of course, none of them were captured in a mall with explosives, were they? In Houston, just this week, a guilty man was released after 17 years. The police were so convinced he was guilty they're talking about trying him again. The co-conspirator in that case said he wasn't the guy. The DNA taken was the wrong type. The blood taken was the wrong type. The hair taken didn't match. But hey -- his name was sort of the same . And you know how all those foreign names sound the same. It is not totally acceptable. And I hope with all my heart that it never will be in this country that calls itself the land of the free and the home of the brave. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #20 October 12, 2004 QuoteBullshit. Our country was founded on the rule of law, and the law in the country is innocent until proven guilty. You are INCORRECT... Study the National Security laws closely... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #21 October 12, 2004 QuoteUnless they are enemies of the state.. Which terrorists are... You can bet your fanny that we have hundreds of terrorists in custody that the red cross weenies will never know about. Terrorists are not human. They are not people. They do not have rights... They are a means of getting information we need. PERIOD... Even the Nazis gave the Red Cross access to their prison camps. As soon as you say someone is inhuman and therefore has no rights you forfeit your own humanity.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #22 October 12, 2004 QuoteQuotePrisoner treatment is pretty much on the "no deviations allowed" list. Unless they are enemies of the state.. Which terrorists are... You can bet your fanny that we have hundreds of terrorists in custody that the red cross weenies will never know about. Terrorists are not human. They are not people. They do not have rights... They are a means of getting information we need. PERIOD... Rhino Who is it that declares a person an enemy of the state? What does one have to do to become one? That is is much more frightening to me than terrorists or spiders. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #23 October 12, 2004 QuoteEven the Nazis gave the Red Cross access to their prison camps. If the Red Cross approved of the concentration camps, then how about we just say "fuck what they think!" and do what we want to do.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #24 October 12, 2004 I'm hoping they were tortured extremely slow and painfully. I could post in detail precise methods for maximum torture pain. It happens more than you think and rightfully so. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #25 October 12, 2004 >If you catch a man in the mall, with explosives strapped to him, and you >know he is a terrorist then HE HAS NO RIGHTS. That is TOTALLY acceptable. And if the Chechens catch a US Marine out of uniform carrying a gun - you OK with them 'disappearing' him, perhaps torturing him to death? After all, by their definitions (and by the international conventions on prisoner treatment) he is an 'ununiformed combatant' i.e. a terrorist. Or suppose they catch a 'security contractor' in Iraq i.e. a guy carrying guns who is not part of any armed forces. By your standards, beheading him would be TOTALLY acceptable. Be careful what you wish for - you may get it, and it may be done to you instead of to someone else. If we want our people treated well, we have to treat their people well. (Until we can show they're guilty, at which time we should shoot them.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
