rhino 0 #1 October 9, 2004 Why hasn't The Department Of Homeland Security come up with a screen saver "Much like the SETI one", to fight terrorism? The FBI has 22,000 hours of tape that hasn't been analyzed yet? I wonder WHY this hasn't happened? Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 October 9, 2004 Because the tapes need to be translated and it takes a human ear to translate to see what they actually mean. I mean if I say "that is the bomb!" thats totally different then "That is a bomb!" It wold take a human ear to tell the difference. Just look at the online translators, they are all so bad for more then a simple phrase.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #3 October 9, 2004 QuoteThe FBI has 22,000 hours of tape that hasn't been analyzed yet? Not nearly enough interpreters. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #4 October 9, 2004 I hear you.. But with today's technology at least certain phone calls with certain words or phrases can be flagged to at least warrant "review"... We have the technology to make this happen.. Just wondering why we aren't using technology as it could be used... That's all... I think it could work.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #5 October 9, 2004 They are using many programs that filter through billions of phone calls world wide. The problem lies in when a call is flagged due to a buzz word it needs to be monitored by a human to determine if it is a legitiment threat or just babble. When I was in the Navy the number of calls flagged globally by the NSA was around 3 million. The vast majority of those were goose chases, however, it still takes man power to review these. You encounter even more trouble when those flagged conversations are spoken in a foreign language. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 October 9, 2004 Project Echelon - End result that the NSA monitors greater then 75% of all information transmitted on the internet. Its estimated that even 128 bit encryption is cracked with in 45 seconds with the sheer power and programs the NSA has. Even using the 256 bit SlipJack method its estimated to take less then 2 minutes to crack with the NSA. The don't release things for civilian useage unless they can get around it. Project Carnivore - FBI monitors greater then 90% of domestic emails and more then 60% of international emails. The only ones safe are those on a LAN. It does'nt care who's email it reads... it just looks for key words an any email. Greatest violation of privacy on the internet there is. If anyone has processing to throw at it, its the NSA.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #7 October 9, 2004 I'm not referring to the internet. I'm talking about phone conversations. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #8 October 9, 2004 Same here... And I don't really give a hoot about internet privacy where email is concerned.. The only people that should be concerned about email are the ones breaking the law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #9 October 9, 2004 Yeah, but the NSA has the same technology for voice, Microwave, Radio, and almost every other known data transmition method there is. Rumor was going around that the NSA was even working on technology that would be able to tell what text was on a screen by reading the variations in the background radiation coming from the monitor. I've talked to former NSA analysts that describe tape banks and solid state media hooked up to huge banks of processors just for voice. They record every Satelite call made, every cellular, every land line call... I imagine even Voice over IP is simple for them to analyse.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 October 9, 2004 Good.. would'nt mind if all the details of your divorce that you thought you were emailing to just one person turned up in court huh? Privacy is a huge deal to me, weither its in your house, over email, or even over IM's.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #11 October 9, 2004 QuoteGood.. would'nt mind if all the details of your divorce that you thought you were emailing to just one person turned up in court huh? It is all public recored anyways.. ALL OF IT.. You have much to learn about the courts and the truths to current NON right to privacy.,.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #12 October 9, 2004 QuoteRumor was going around that the NSA was even working on technology that would be able to tell what text was on a screen by reading the variations in the background radiation coming from the monitor. This isn't the same thing you're talking about but they also have a technology that allows the operator to see exactly what you're typing on your computer as long as he is within about 200 feet regardless of terrain, walls, etc... Believe it's called Tempest. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 October 9, 2004 Yep, Tempest is a little bitch. You could be sitting in your house and the NSA can be parked half way down the block reading what you are typing even if you are not on the internet. I really like how they tapped the main fiber lines running from Europe to America. Doing pass through on fiber with out a drop out or lag is super impressive. We are talking nearly light speed communication ability. They also had tapped the line running into Russia by putting something on the outside of it that was able to sense the light going through the bundle and sniff the traffic that way back in the 70's I think. The NSA has the highest employment of PHd mathematicians on the planet, if anyone knows a way to get info out of a data stream (thats all Voice is, it data in another form), its them.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #14 October 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe FBI has 22,000 hours of tape that hasn't been analyzed yet? Not nearly enough interpreters. Too bad they fire the gay ones. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #15 October 9, 2004 QuoteProject Carnivore - FBI monitors greater then 90% of domestic emails and more then 60% of international emails. The only ones safe are those on a LAN. It does'nt care who's email it reads... it just looks for key words an any email. Greatest violation of privacy on the internet there is. Didn't they rename Carnivore to something less...menacing-sounding? They realized that people don't like the idea of a government entity "devouring" their freedom, I guess. Kind of like how "Handgun Control, Inc."changed its name to "The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence" when it realized that the public don't like organizations that seek to "control." From an NRA site: "In 2001, Handgun Control, Inc. changed its name to Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The organization originated (1974) as the National Council to Control Handguns (NCCH), a group which lobbied for government restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms through support for restrictions on the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer, and civilian possession of handguns. The organization voiced a desire for an eventual handgun ban through gradual steps, but changed its name and espoused goals due to results of a survey. In 1991, then HCI amended its Articles of Incorporation to reflect its support of restrictions on rifles and shotguns as well." -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 October 9, 2004 Yeah.. Carnivore is now called Project DCS1000 Same purpore... different name for the budget. What do you think of the project?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #17 October 9, 2004 QuoteYeah.. Carnivore is now called Project DCS1000 Same purpore... different name for the budget. What do you think of the project? I imagine I don't know much about it besides a synopsis, but I tend to dislike stuff like that. I prefer to live with risk rather than sacrifice privacy to those who promise to keep me safe but who generally fail every time despite what we give up to them. This type of thing essentially means that we live under constant suspicion, and nothing we do is actually in confidence and privacy. That is anathema to me, and should be to anyone who claims to love freedom. -Jeffrey-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #18 October 10, 2004 QuoteProject Echelon - End result that the NSA monitors greater then 75% of all information transmitted on the internet. Its estimated that even 128 bit encryption is cracked with in 45 seconds with the sheer power and programs the NSA has. Even using the 256 bit SlipJack method its estimated to take less then 2 minutes to crack with the NSA. The don't release things for civilian useage unless they can get around it. Project Carnivore - FBI monitors greater then 90% of domestic emails and more then 60% of international emails. The only ones safe are those on a LAN. It does'nt care who's email it reads... it just looks for key words an any email. Greatest violation of privacy on the internet there is. If anyone has processing to throw at it, its the NSA. I would like to see where you read the NSA can crack 128 / 256k bit encription in a matter of minutes, it's really just not possible. Also do you realize how impossible it would be to monitor that much email traffic, or even any traffic on the internet? Do you understand ANYTHING about how information is routed over the internet? I would really like to see where this info comes from, I dont see how it's possible. Nate FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #19 October 10, 2004 QuoteI would like to see where you read the NSA can crack 128 / 256k bit encription in a matter of minutes, it's really just not possible. Also do you realize how impossible it would be to monitor that much email traffic, or even any traffic on the internet? Do you understand ANYTHING about how information is routed over the internet? I would really like to see where this info comes from, I dont see how it's possible. Considering what Erk (Phree) does for a living, I think he kinda' understands. As for the NSA cracking 128/256 in those amounts of times, trust me, they've got some serious big-iron sitting in their computer rooms. They don't have anything listed on the Top 500, but if oil companies and the National Oceanographic institute have iron running in the top 40, you can bet the NSA has some nice toys sitting around. Never say it isn't possible...Hell, 512-bit RSA was broken in one week back in 99 with a Cray that wasn't that impressive considering what's available today. Linky Technology has gotten considerably faster since then.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #20 October 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteI would like to see where you read the NSA can crack 128 / 256k bit encription in a matter of minutes, it's really just not possible. Also do you realize how impossible it would be to monitor that much email traffic, or even any traffic on the internet? Do you understand ANYTHING about how information is routed over the internet? I would really like to see where this info comes from, I dont see how it's possible. Considering what Erk (Phree) does for a living, I think he kinda' understands. As for the NSA cracking 128/256 in those amounts of times, trust me, they've got some serious big-iron sitting in their computer rooms. They don't have anything listed on the Top 500, but if oil companies and the National Oceanographic institute have iron running in the top 40, you can bet the NSA has some nice toys sitting around. Never say it isn't possible...Hell, 512-bit RSA was broken in one week back in 99 with a Cray that wasn't that impressive considering what's available today. Linky Technology has gotten considerably faster since then. Ok, nothing is "safe",.. however, I stand by my monitoring the internet not really being possible.. If they have a target that they want to monitor, yes, that is much easier.. If the NSA wanted to monitor my specific traffic it wouldnt be hard, and I suppose they could take some extra time to decript what I do, but 75% of internet traffic? No way... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #21 October 10, 2004 Quotebut 75% of internet traffic? No way... You're right. It's closer to 90%. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #22 October 10, 2004 QuoteNo way... Who created the internet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 October 10, 2004 Yeah, trust me I know about network and email monitoring. My senior thesis was on encryption and I created a 4 bit cypher Tap into the Tier 1 back bone providers lines and get huge amounts of the internet covered. Add agents on the Tier2, Tier3 and local ISP lines and you have the rest covered. Pretty much anything that's over a T1 is rumored to be monitored. Official numbers are not availble, but budget figures from the NSA show huge amounts of money going to IBM and Compaq for super computers for years. I've read they are to have 3 in the top 50 super computers if they were declassified. Even throwing SETI type computing cycles at it would not help since they have faster stuff inhouse. Brute force is such an ugly way of getting into encrption and it takes way too much time if you already have the keys to start with or if you can work through a back door in the code. Don't think it can happen? Here is a NSA hole in Windows. And the NSA is probally the largest Key thief in the world. Just copying the MIT database for example will get you PGP keys for millions of people and businesses. And here is how companies can create exportable strong encryption: For anyone (but the NSA) to crack our international encryption keys they must crack a 64 bit key, the same as with a US encryption key. In the international version we take 24 of the 64 bit encryption key and encrypt the 24 bits with the NSA's public key and send it, encrypted strongly, along with the encrypted message. This means the NSA can decrypt with their key and have 24 of the 64 bit key. They still have to break the remaining 40 bits. 40 bit key encryption has been the max for exportable encryption and that is what all other US exportable encryption providers allow. The NSA already has part of the key so its really easy to crack. The last Triple DES challenge (128 bit) lasted less then 24 hours on a distributed network that was only a small fraction of the SETI network.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #24 October 11, 2004 Some problems lend themselves to this distributed approach, others don't (for compute vs bandwidth reasons, sheer practicality or security reasons). Here is the place to look if you really want to contribute: http://www.grid.org/home.htm You'll have to settle for Anthrax & Smallpox number crunching though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crozby 0 #25 October 11, 2004 QuoteIts estimated that even 128 bit encryption is cracked with in 45 seconds with the sheer power and programs the NSA has. Even using the 256 bit SlipJack method its estimated to take less then 2 minutes to crack with the NSA. Where do you get your info from. Because this is the kind of crack times that are believed for AES: QuoteWhat is the chance that someone could use the "DES Cracker"-like hardware to crack an AES key? In the late 1990s, specialized "DES Cracker" machines were built that could recover a DES key after a few hours. In other words, by trying possible key values, the hardware could determine which key was used to encrypt a message. Assuming that one could build a machine that could recover a DES key in a second (i.e., try 255 keys per second), then it would take that machine approximately 149 thousand-billion (149 trillion) years to crack a 128-bit AES key. To put that into perspective, the universe is believed to be less than 20 billion years old. http://csrc.nist.gov/CryptoToolkit/aes/aesfact.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
