Guns vs. Doctors

[Tonto 1]

[joke]
A. The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000
B. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000
C. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171 per year

Now consider this:
A. The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
B. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is
1,500.
C. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188 per year

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun
owners.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do!"
FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but almost everyone has at least one doctor.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets completely out of hand.
NOTE: Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics
on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical
attention.[/joke]

It's the year of the Pig.

[mr2mk1g 10]

If 9 women work together they can have a baby in 1 month.

[Erroll 80]

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If 9 women work together they can have a baby in 1 month.

And then the baby gets killed by the doctor.

[kallend 2,146]

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A. The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000
B. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000
C. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171 per year

Now consider this:
A. The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
B. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is
1,500.
C. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188 per year

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun
owners.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do!"
FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but almost everyone has at least one doctor.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets completely out of hand.
NOTE: Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics
on lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical
attention.

Not all doctors are physicians. You need to clarify your analysis.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peregrinerose 0]

Don't put too much credence into the 'accidental death by doctor' thing. How many of those deaths are caused by side effects of surgery or medication and the doc gets blamed for it? Patients are stupid, they don't listen to docs when we tell them about potential side effects, they don't read the information that comes with the drugs they take, they sign off on the pharmacy education waiver without actually paying attention to what they are doing, and then they get upset when something happens (adverse reaction, etc).

Yes, docs do screw up too, but we also get blamed for things like that. It isn't right, but it happens. People take meds/surgery too lightly. They don't realize they are the boss, it is their body, it is their right to know every possible outcome and refuse treatment or request a differnt one accordingly.

How about guns and docs? There was a recent case in CT where an optometrist made an appt with another optometrist, showed up for the appt (under a fake name), got in the exam room, shot the OD twice in the head (scalp and superficial wounds), then killed himself. How's that for a double whammy on your stats?

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Lindsey 0]

How about a ratio of lives saved:lives lost due to doctors and guns respectively.....

Peace~
Lindsey

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[wmw999 2,587]

Tonto, I think you needed to put that [joke] tag into bold red
Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[PhillyKev 0]

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Don't put too much credence into the 'accidental death by doctor' thing. How many of those deaths are caused by side effects of surgery or medication and the doc gets blamed for it?

How many of those side effects from surgery are because of sponges and tools being left inside patients or incorrect medication being given to patients? Sure, there are good doctors, but there are also a whole lot of bad ones.

[peregrinerose 0]

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How many of those side effects from surgery are because of sponges and tools being left inside patients or incorrect medication being given to patients? Sure, there are good doctors, but there are also a whole lot of bad ones.

There are absolutely mistakes made, which I did say in that post. But with the stats, there is no way to differentiate the two. Just because the doc settles or loses a lawsuit doesn't mean he necessarily is guilty of actual malpractice.

I had a patient who lost his daughter is surgery because the anesthesiolost added an extra zero to the amount of anesthesia to be given accidentally. The little girl got 10 times as much as she was supposed to, and never woke up.

Does this mean he's a bad doc? How many typos have you made? The problem is that with docs, innocent mistakes can kill. There are no easy answers on these questions. Just trying to give another viewpoint that people don't often consider.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[PhillyKev 0]

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I had a patient who lost his daughter is surgery because the anesthesiolost added an extra zero to the amount of anesthesia to be given accidentally. The little girl got 10 times as much as she was supposed to, and never woke up.

Does this mean he's a bad doc? How many typos have you made?

Yes, he's a bad doc, and should go to prison for that. I've made plenty of typos, but never when the result could cost someone their life. I'll bet if he was typing up his own chart, or his own kid's he would have double checked his typing. Complacency in a dr kills peopls and IS the definition of a bad doctor.

[crozby 0]

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I had a patient who lost his daughter is surgery because the anesthesiolost added an extra zero to the amount of anesthesia to be given accidentally. The little girl got 10 times as much as she was supposed to, and never woke up.

Does this mean he's a bad doc? How many typos have you made?

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Yes, he's a bad doc, and should go to prison for that. I've made plenty of typos, but never when the result could cost someone their life. I'll bet if he was typing up his own chart, or his own kid's he would have double checked his typing. Complacency in a dr kills peopls and IS the definition of a bad doctor

No, he's not a bad doc. Humans make mistakes, it's part of being human. Hospitals should recognise this fact and have systems in place that prevent inevitable mistakes like this from causing death.

A doctor making a typo should not result in somebodys death.

[rehmwa 2]

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Not all doctors are physicians. You need to clarify your analysis.

And not all PhDs have anything worthwhile to say.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[PhillyKev 0]

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No, he's not a bad doc. Humans make mistakes, it's part of being human.

And being good at your job means recognizing where mistakes could be made and taking measures to prevent that. Like proof reading somethnig you type that could kill someone.

[kallend 2,146]

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Not all doctors are physicians. You need to clarify your analysis.

And not all PhDs have anything worthwhile to say.

I bet you prefer the alloys used in airplane wings to have been developed by PhDs in metallurgy rather than high school drop outs.

I bet you prefer the pharmaceuticals you take to have been developed by PhDs in biochemistry or pharmacology rather than by high school drop outs.

I bet you prefer your tax money to be spent on nuclear weapons designed by PhDs in physics and engineering rather than by high school drop outs.

I could go on with a long list.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Tonto 1]

Done!

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[wmw999 2,587]

Must be great to be a moderator, and be able to go back and edit after the 6 hours are up
Boy howdy, you could even change it so that I came out endorsing Pat Robertson for US President, couldn't you (Wendy runs away screaming)

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

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bet you prefer the pharmaceuticals you take to have been developed by PhDs in biochemistry or pharmacology rather than by high school drop outs.

I bet you prefer your tax money to be spent on nuclear weapons designed by PhDs in physics and engineering rather than by high school drop outs.

I could go on with a long list.

Contentious today, Doc? I was teasing as you were being angry and prolific in your writing today.

But to that example - the pharmo, nuke, and metals PhDs are doing great jobs I hope. Doesn't mean they know crap about candy making, psychology, politics, or race car driving. I could go on with a long list.

And what do you have against drop outs. It's not their fault, it's the governements fault and those damn rich kids that are in your classes. How dare they go to college.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Jib 0]

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Not all doctors are physicians. You need to clarify your analysis.

And not all PhDs have anything worthwhile to say.

I bet you prefer the alloys used in airplane wings to have been developed by PhDs in metallurgy rather than high school drop outs.

***

I could go on with a long list.

He said anything to say not anything to do.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[kallend 2,146]

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Not all doctors are physicians. You need to clarify your analysis.

And not all PhDs have anything worthwhile to say.

I bet you prefer the alloys used in airplane wings to have been developed by PhDs in metallurgy rather than high school drop outs.

***

I could go on with a long list.

He said anything to say not anything to do.

Difficult to be part of a design team without opening your mouth.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peregrinerose 0]

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And being good at your job means recognizing where mistakes could be made and taking measures to prevent that. Like proof reading somethnig you type that could kill someone.

I check every rx I write at least twice after putting it in the computer plus again when it prints out. Know what? About once every 2-3 years I fuck up and someone's glasses are made because I typo'd and missed my own typo. Now that won't kill anyone and patients tend to think it is funny when the doc comes out and is honest and tells them exactly why they can't see out of one lens, apologizes, and promptly remakes it for them.

I'm not perfect, I'll never be perfect. I'm not saying that in a case like this there should be absolutely no repercussions, I have no idea what is/isn't appropriate. But one mistake in a lifetime does not make a shitty doctor, it makes a human (and this does happen to be a very well respected doc at one of the premier facilities in the country). Jail time for this? Seems not right. There is no 'right' answer to this and I'm not looking for one. Only trying to bring to light the other side of the story, one that is blown off by the general public.

Do you honestly think that doc's go on living guilt free lives when something like this happens???? Imagine what the doc, who vowed to 'do no harm' has to live with. He killed a child. Personally, I'd be suicidal in the same situation. I have a hard time with it when I lose patients to things beyond my control (even in eye care we lose patients due to pathologies that we diagnose, diabetes, stroke, etc).

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Lindsey 0]

I think that it is obviously a physician's responsibility to be contientious, and I think that sometimes that's where the problem lies. If I mistake, it is my fault and nobody else's....not "the system's," not the late or long hours, or anything else. It is a physician's responsibility to think and rethink, check and recheck, what he/she is doing. However, calling any physician who makes a mistake a "bad doctor" is ridiculous. You will not find a single good doctor if that's your standard.

It's easy to place blame. It would really be nice if more patients would take some responsibility for their own health. If a person smokes like a chimney and gets lung cancer, is it the physician's fault if he/she didn't find it as soon as the patient would have liked? Is that person's death the fault of the physician??? Maybe when the patient came in for the 5th time that year with another bout of bronchitis the physician did NOT order another chest x-ray that would have detected a mass. Whose fault is that? Those things get blamed on doctors all the time. How about the diabetic who won't exercize and lose wieght. When there is some complication that *maybe* the physician could have prevented with a little better foresight.....is that the physician's fault? These are the kinds of things that doctors are blamed for. People who will pay $40 for a manicure or to get their hair done often can't come up with a $20 co-pay for the physician who manages their hypertension and diabetes.

I believe, perhaps naively, that most physicians do have their patients' best interest in mind. I think that sometimes, in the rush, some physicians may not be as detail oriented as they should be. All people will make mistakes, despite every effort not to. To try to pin every unfortunate outcome on a physician, though, is really, really reaching.

Peace~
lindsey

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[PhillyKev 0]

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However, calling any physician who makes a mistake a "bad doctor" is ridiculous.

True, but, I'm not. I'm calling any doctor who makes a mistake that can be easily checked and as a result KILLS someone a bad doctor.

[JohnRich 4]

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How about a ratio of lives saved:lives lost due to doctors and guns respectively...

Oh, now we should judge something by the relative amount of good versus evil that it produces. That's odd, the anti-gun folks never use that philosophy when advocating gun bans - all they see is evil.

GUNS SAVE LIVES!

Every year, Americans use guns 800,000 to 2.4 million times to protect themselves and their families - as many as 75 lives saved by a gun for every life lost to a gun, as many as 5 lives protected per minute. About 1% of America's 240 million guns are used for protection annually.

[complexity 0]

there is a difference between medical errors caused by physicians/medical providers and medical malpractice committed by physicians/medical providers.

According to the Institute of Medicine, there are 98,000 americans who die each year in hospitals due to preventable medical errors. THis is way too high -- especially in a country like ours that spends so much on health care and technology. Many of htese are preventable errors and are not intentional -- and they could be prevented by more reporting and transparency of these mistakes/ system problems/move to better Health IT.

Malpractice awards are intended to be for intentional and egregious types of actions by doctors/medical providers -- they should be punished/face damages. Problem is the system is totally messed up so good doctors often get blamed for things beyond their control.

However as mentioned by others, mistakes do happen -- and we need to fix the system, rather than just look for folks to blame.

[Tonto 1]

Fuck people! It was a JOKE!

Does everything in SK HAVE to be so serious?

t

It's the year of the Pig.