Gravitymaster 0 #26 October 6, 2004 QuoteWe turned a stable dictatorial society, where a draconian order was imposed by a ruthless tyrant, into a chaotic society where hundreds die every month, and where we will remain for years watching Iraqis and US soldiers die. This is an improvement? Think the Iraqis who lost their brothers and sisters will thank us for this? Sounds like you think Iraqi would be better off if Saddam was still in power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #27 October 7, 2004 >Sounds like you think Iraqi would be better off if Saddam was still in power. I honestly don't know. I doubt he would have killed 11,000 people in two years. Maybe he would have. But saying that we are a little better than Saddam is truly a sad justification for a war. "Hey, we torture and kill a few less people than Saddam would have! Now throw those flowers at us before we incinerate you." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #28 October 7, 2004 Quote>Sounds like you think Iraqi would be better off if Saddam was still in power. I honestly don't know. I doubt he would have killed 11,000 people in two years. Maybe he would have. But saying that we are a little better than Saddam is truly a sad justification for a war. "Hey, we torture and kill a few less people than Saddam would have! Now throw those flowers at us before we incinerate you." Take a little longer view. Who would kill more people over a 10 year period? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #29 October 7, 2004 >Take a little longer view. Who would kill more people over a 10 year period? Over the long haul, more people will die in Iraq over the next 10 years than if Hussein had stayed in power. We said that Iraq would settle down once we "handed over sovereignty" - that didn't happen. We said Iraq would be able to police itself real soon now - that didn't happen. Now we're saying things will settle down after the elections - that's not gonna happen either. I wouldn't be suprised if we see a civil war within 10 years, one that will kill more people than our initial invasion did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #30 October 7, 2004 QuoteSaddam did not have chemical and biological stockpiles when the war began Again... With their smuggling capabilities and track record of doing so THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE THIS... You know what I am saying... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #31 October 7, 2004 Quoteyou cannot smuggle something you do not have... You can't prove that they didn't have WMD's... No one can... What we can prove is that he used them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #32 October 7, 2004 Quotesaved tens of thousands of Kurds, and are giving the Iraqi people a shot at self determination Powder keg warning. Kurds are Kurds, not Iraqis (what ever that means). I can't imagine the Kurds being ruled by the Suuni or Shii, nor can I imagine the former recognizing the latter as legitimate rulers and/or co-citizens. And then there is the Turkish Kurd issue... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #33 October 7, 2004 >Again... With their smuggling capabilities and track record of doing >so THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE THIS... Well, you can't prove you didn't kill a dozen puppies last year, but I wouldn't go around claiming you did just because you can't prove you didn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #34 October 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteyou cannot smuggle something you do not have... You can't prove that they didn't have WMD's... No one can... What we can prove is that he used them... No we (you and I) cannot. However,the people who have actually been on the ground there (Blix, Kay, Duelfer, Bouradi)) say he hadn't any WMDs or active programs.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #35 October 7, 2004 QuoteSaddam had no WMD programs. You can't prove that... QuoteWe turned a stable dictatorial society, where a draconian order was imposed by a ruthless tyrant, into a chaotic society where hundreds die every month, and where we will remain for years watching Iraqis and US soldiers die. Let me tell you a little story... I bought a little albino catfish 2 years ago... It was about 2 inches long when I bought it... I have a 75 gallon fish tank... In 2 years that fish grew to 1/3 the length of the tank... As a small catfish it was happy and vibrant... The bigger it got the slower it moved... The tail fin sagged... It just sat there in it's misserable existance............. 2 days ago I removed that big ole catfish "he didn't put up much of a fuss" and brought him to my favorite fishing hole a mile away... A HUGE lake.... Upon letting that catfish go... Watching him take off, swimming faster and faster down tha dock, as it was FREE... For the first time.... I would imagine that that old catfish appreciates that FREEDOM more than the dangers it now faces in that lake being a non-camo, white catfish and wouldn't trade that moment of freedom for the world.... For a moment I got a glimpse of what it was like to have a part in setting something free... I imagined what it must have been like for the Afghan's and the Iraqi's under the regimes they were under... That must have felt like being couped up in a small fish tank... They now have freedom.. As imperfect as it may be IT IS FREEDOM.. Not a damned one of them isn't better off because of it.. I believe that... I'm proud to be a citizen of the country that freed those 2 countries... It may suck over there... It may really suck... But it's better than it was and it can only get better.. I'm proud of our troops. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #36 October 7, 2004 QuoteOk Rhino.......why is it if we are so fucking smart and the most powerful country in the world, then why is it that there has been no evidence of WMD? since 1991? Also, we have got N. Korea of there goimg "hi we have WMDnd we want to use them on them" and our fearless leader wants to make peace with them........explain it to me because I DON'T FUCKING GET IT! That is like someone threatening to hit you in the face and then tellig you that; but you decide t blame some other person and go and punch him in the face. Don't get me wrong Saddam is crazy! But so is Kim so and so from N.Korea. and many many other leaders of many other countries! Sadham has been decieving inspectors since 1991... He made a living at it... So did his sons... THIS IS OBVIOUS... Common sense applies. I don't remember Bush saying let's make piece with NK.. I believe Kerry is the one that wan't bilatteral talks... Bush is using China as leverage.. This is a good move.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #37 October 7, 2004 QuoteWell, you can't prove you didn't kill a dozen puppies last year, but I wouldn't go around claiming you did just because you can't prove you didn't. He HAS USED WMD's Bill.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #38 October 7, 2004 Quotesay he hadn't any WMDs or active programs That they could find... I agree... Iraq is a big damned country... That doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist. I believe "right before the war" they were simply driven out of the country. Prove me wrong... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #39 October 7, 2004 QuoteQuotesay he hadn't any WMDs or active programs That they could find... I agree... Iraq is a big damned country... That doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist. I believe "right before the war" they were simply driven out of the country. Prove me wrong... You know, I don't believe they were driven out right before the war. Prove me wrong.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #40 October 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteFor sure some people will disagree with me (and flame me), but it sure looks like this war was about $$$ and not WMD. For all the Saddam apologists out there........ If it was really about oil it would have been a lot easier to invade the Sultanate of Brunei( a lot more oil a lot smaller army) If it was about money,it would have been a lot easier to annex,invade,liberate Japan, Switzerland,Canada,etc. I guess the fact that we rid the world of a murderous despot, saved tens of thousands of Kurds, and are giving the Iraqi people a shot at self determination doesnt count for much at least to some people .... Ya but you know what the big difference is between those countries and Iraq? Those countries comply with us......Saddam didn't! I am not doubting that Saddam was crazy or psycho, but so are alot of country leaders, and those countries who have asked for our help in the past.....like South Africa just for example, have nothing to offer us. So therefore then we will say well we can't help the whole world. I remember the day we invaded Iraq.....do know where the first place they sent the troops to take over? The oil fields. But we are not there for that!----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #41 October 7, 2004 Quotefor those who insist on believing everything the Bush Administration says What about believing everything these people said? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #42 October 7, 2004 QuoteWhat about believing everything these people said? What about it??? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goofyjumper 0 #43 October 7, 2004 Quote I'm proud to be a citizen of the country that freed those 2 countries... It may suck over there... It may really suck... But it's better than it was and it can only get better.. I'm proud of our troops. Rhino Remember when we were ruled by Britain? Well of course not. They ruled us for many years. Now when the English Colonies had enough, they did something about, with really no help fom other countries. No one just came out of now where and captured the King of England......and then told us "hey we did it for your own good." My point is: through out history and humans period, when a country's people have had enough then they have had enough. The rest will be history. America was not in Iraq because we felt sorry for them, it is for many many selfish reasons and now when their lies backfired, we now say we are there because we want to free them. Humans as a whole are not that compassionate (I probably spelled that wrong). Let's get back to reality.----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,107 #44 October 7, 2004 >He HAS USED WMD's Bill.... No argument there, but when he first used them, he used them to kill people we wanted dead (the Iranians.) He was doing as we asked. The rationale for going to war two years ago was that his WMD arsenal was a threat to us. That turned out to be wrong; he had none. That's the issue here. There are a lot of people who are really into this war, and play the revolving-reasons game. It was WMD's! No, it was that Saddam was a bad guy! No, it was because he supported 9/11! No, it was because he trained Al Qaeda! For a while it was fun to watch the reason du jour get bandied about, but now all but the "Saddam was a bad guy" has been shown to be false. Which isn't much of a reason, but hey, you gotta go with what you got I suppose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #45 October 7, 2004 QuoteQuotesay he hadn't any WMDs or active programs That they could find... I agree... Iraq is a big damned country... That doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist. I believe "right before the war" they were simply driven out of the country. Prove me wrong... You are making a claim contrary to what US and UN experts who have been there are saying - the onus is on you to back it up. Prove that Blix, Kay, Duelfer, and Bouradi are wrong and you are right.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #46 October 7, 2004 Quote Quote Saddam had no WMD programs. You can't prove that... You can't prove that he did have them. The burden of proof is upon those who want to go to war... they have not discharged that burden. You can't prove that he did have WMD. This report now out gives a firm conclusion that he did not have them. Not proof, but far far away from saying he did as you are saying. Where is your proof? Try and find some in an official document written by a team who's been in the country for a long time... guess what - thats the report we're talking about now, and it says exactly the opposite of what you are claimaing. You are starting to sound like one of those nuts who wants people to prove that NASA went to the moon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #47 October 7, 2004 QuoteNo one in Iraq who has died has died for nothing. No one. Does that include the 11000 plus civilians killed? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #48 October 7, 2004 Quote He HAS USED WMD's Bill.... As has the US. Nuclear weapons - no less. The US often refers to Japan's Pre-emptive strike on Pearl Harbour as the "Day of infamy." What kind of spin do you put on your pre-emptive war/occupation against a civilian populace with no armed forces? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #49 October 7, 2004 That doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist. I believe "right before the war" they were simply driven out of the country. Prove me wrong... Okay, here's what happened to them, in summary.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722016.stm-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #50 October 7, 2004 QuoteYou know, I don't believe they were driven out right before the war. Prove me wrong. You see I don't need to... I'm not the one saying that Sadham "Who we KNOW had and USED WMD's" doesn't have any? I'm not the one pushing my big red clown nose in peoples face touting I told you so... LOL Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
tunaplanet 0 #41 October 7, 2004 Quotefor those who insist on believing everything the Bush Administration says What about believing everything these people said? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #42 October 7, 2004 QuoteWhat about believing everything these people said? What about it??? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #43 October 7, 2004 Quote I'm proud to be a citizen of the country that freed those 2 countries... It may suck over there... It may really suck... But it's better than it was and it can only get better.. I'm proud of our troops. Rhino Remember when we were ruled by Britain? Well of course not. They ruled us for many years. Now when the English Colonies had enough, they did something about, with really no help fom other countries. No one just came out of now where and captured the King of England......and then told us "hey we did it for your own good." My point is: through out history and humans period, when a country's people have had enough then they have had enough. The rest will be history. America was not in Iraq because we felt sorry for them, it is for many many selfish reasons and now when their lies backfired, we now say we are there because we want to free them. Humans as a whole are not that compassionate (I probably spelled that wrong). Let's get back to reality.----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #44 October 7, 2004 >He HAS USED WMD's Bill.... No argument there, but when he first used them, he used them to kill people we wanted dead (the Iranians.) He was doing as we asked. The rationale for going to war two years ago was that his WMD arsenal was a threat to us. That turned out to be wrong; he had none. That's the issue here. There are a lot of people who are really into this war, and play the revolving-reasons game. It was WMD's! No, it was that Saddam was a bad guy! No, it was because he supported 9/11! No, it was because he trained Al Qaeda! For a while it was fun to watch the reason du jour get bandied about, but now all but the "Saddam was a bad guy" has been shown to be false. Which isn't much of a reason, but hey, you gotta go with what you got I suppose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #45 October 7, 2004 QuoteQuotesay he hadn't any WMDs or active programs That they could find... I agree... Iraq is a big damned country... That doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist. I believe "right before the war" they were simply driven out of the country. Prove me wrong... You are making a claim contrary to what US and UN experts who have been there are saying - the onus is on you to back it up. Prove that Blix, Kay, Duelfer, and Bouradi are wrong and you are right.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #46 October 7, 2004 Quote Quote Saddam had no WMD programs. You can't prove that... You can't prove that he did have them. The burden of proof is upon those who want to go to war... they have not discharged that burden. You can't prove that he did have WMD. This report now out gives a firm conclusion that he did not have them. Not proof, but far far away from saying he did as you are saying. Where is your proof? Try and find some in an official document written by a team who's been in the country for a long time... guess what - thats the report we're talking about now, and it says exactly the opposite of what you are claimaing. You are starting to sound like one of those nuts who wants people to prove that NASA went to the moon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #47 October 7, 2004 QuoteNo one in Iraq who has died has died for nothing. No one. Does that include the 11000 plus civilians killed? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #48 October 7, 2004 Quote He HAS USED WMD's Bill.... As has the US. Nuclear weapons - no less. The US often refers to Japan's Pre-emptive strike on Pearl Harbour as the "Day of infamy." What kind of spin do you put on your pre-emptive war/occupation against a civilian populace with no armed forces? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #49 October 7, 2004 That doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist. I believe "right before the war" they were simply driven out of the country. Prove me wrong... Okay, here's what happened to them, in summary.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722016.stm-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #50 October 7, 2004 QuoteYou know, I don't believe they were driven out right before the war. Prove me wrong. You see I don't need to... I'm not the one saying that Sadham "Who we KNOW had and USED WMD's" doesn't have any? I'm not the one pushing my big red clown nose in peoples face touting I told you so... LOL Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
