Keith 0 #201 October 8, 2004 QuoteAssuming that homosexuality is in fact a natural, however abnormal, occurrence, we should not promote it as a norm like heterosexuality because we’ve learned over thousands of years of civilization that it is not a best course of action with reference to the survivability of a species. Huh? Show me where a species has gone extinct because of homosexuality?Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #202 October 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteAssuming that homosexuality is in fact a natural, however abnormal, occurrence, we should not promote it as a norm like heterosexuality because we’ve learned over thousands of years of civilization that it is not a best course of action with reference to the survivability of a species. Huh? Show me where a species has gone extinct because of homosexuality? While you're at it, feel free to include the numerous examples of species that have become extince due to OVER population. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #203 October 8, 2004 >Round peg must go in round hole. >Square peg will not go in round hole. >Round peg will not go in square hole. >I think God (or nature, if you prefer) was trying to tell us something. What, that oral sex should be illegal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #204 October 8, 2004 QuoteLet me know if I'm mistaken. I can take it. People keep trying to tell you you're mistaken but you won't listen SheeshKeith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #205 October 8, 2004 The long term problem is that coninually pushing aberations in human behavior as normal distorts the world for children. Children have enough dificulties grwoing up and going through adolesecene without having a bunch of bizarre pseudo-families shoved in their face. Two mommies? Two daddies? Gee, I wonder which mate I get along bettter with? Is this a question that young boys and girls should have to ask? Do you really believe that showing children these things will not scrrew them up? If so you are only kidding yourself. Its criminal that our schools teach chilldren about homosexuality at all. Now lets teach them that anybody can do anything with anyone. I believe that the general consensus is live and let live. I don't care what two people do amongst themselves, but trying to shove it in the face of dencent socity isn't playing out so well. Frankly I think that society has given an inch, and the gay community has taken a mile. First it was look at us "flaming gay in pink feathers" , see how we live and you must accept us this way. Then it was, well, were just like you, sort of. Now its "were just another happy family" lets us pretend were married and act like a quaint suburban couple. Gay couples are not the same, and are not equal, and nature has absolutely seen to that. Does that mean they should not be allowed to live the way they want to? No, do as you plase SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM OTHERS, or society in general. In the case of gay "marriage" it absolutely damages society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #206 October 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteAssuming that homosexuality is in fact a natural, however abnormal, occurrence, we should not promote it as a norm like heterosexuality because we’ve learned over thousands of years of civilization that it is not a best course of action with reference to the survivability of a species. Huh? Show me where a species has gone extinct because of homosexuality? I want to be very clear especially with you since you’ve expressed your sexual preference. I do not dislike or hate people based on that. I may not agree with the behavior but that doesn’t affect how I feel about you as a person. I don’t want to come across as a homophobe because I’m not. Just don’t want hard feelings to come from my posts that you might have gotten from previous ones. Now, in reference to your post, that’s not what I said. As a matter of fact, I said in one of my prior posts that it wouldn’t affect the survival of a species. I also said that same sex marriage wouldn’t affect my marriage in the slightest. The point I was trying to make is that, if there’s going to be a standard for “marriage”, it aught to be “primarily” based on what works at the most basic level in regards to reproduction. That is, if the whole religious argument isn’t going to be used with God being placed at the head of the marriage. Not everyone holds to that and that’s not what I’m arguing here. I was also referring to a breakdown of the fundamental marriage institution. Not the species. Marriage is the most basic organization for a healthy society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #207 October 8, 2004 Quote>Round peg must go in round hole. >Square peg will not go in round hole. >Round peg will not go in square hole. >I think God (or nature, if you prefer) was trying to tell us something. What, that oral sex should be illegal? That's not what I'm saying at all. I think you understand what I'm trying to say. You're just stabbing at it (no pun intended ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #208 October 8, 2004 QuoteIts criminal that our schools teach chilldren about homosexuality at all. Now lets teach them that anybody can do anything with anyone. No kidding. And how about when they teach about retardation. Why should that be shoved in their faces. Next thing you know, they'll treat retards like they are human beings, too. [/sarcasm] Man, that's some of the most biggoted shit out there. Gays are people that exist. Ignoring that fact leads to one result. Misunderstanding. People fear what they don't understand and hate what they fear. I'll bet $20 you weren't taught about gays in school. That's why you have this bias against them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #209 October 8, 2004 QuoteMarriage is the most basic organization for a healthy society. And we come full circle back to the crux of the argument. Please give one single example of how gays being married will have any effect whatsoever on heterosexual marriage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhirledWeb 0 #210 October 8, 2004 QuoteIn the case of gay "marriage" it absolutely damages society. Can you give some examples of how it has damaged society? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Don't be afraid of death, be afraid of the unlived life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #211 October 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteIts criminal that our schools teach chilldren about homosexuality at all. Now lets teach them that anybody can do anything with anyone. No kidding. And how about when they teach about retardation. Why should that be shoved in their faces. Next thing you know, they'll treat retards like they are human beings, too. [/sarcasm] Man, that's some of the most biggoted shit out there. Gays are people that exist. Ignoring that fact leads to one result. Misunderstanding. People fear what they don't understand and hate what they fear. I'll bet $20 you weren't taught about gays in school. That's why you have this bias against them. I have no problem with teaching what homosexuality is given that it's taught to persons old enough and developed enough to understand and who capable of handling emotional issues of that level. However, I have a problem if it's taught as being normal and healthy just like heterosexuality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #212 October 8, 2004 QuoteDo you really believe that showing children these things will not scrrew them up? You have the option to prevent your kids from going to homosexual households if you wish Quotetrying to shove it in the face of dencent socity isn't playing out so well. I don't think anyone is trying to shove anything into someone else's face. I actually think that lots of people are being nosey and "peeking" into other people's private life, then blame these same people for acting as they wish in private! Quote"flaming gay in pink feathers" I have seen these a couple of times only during specific events, which WERE advertised accordingly. The fact that you chose to be there should only be blamed on yourself. QuoteGay couples are not the same, and are not equal Not equal to what? Whom? QuoteDoes that mean they should not be allowed to live the way they want to? No, do as you plase SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM OTHERS, or society in general. I thought you just said they should NOT be allowed to live the way they want to (ie get married). And how do they harm anyone? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #213 October 8, 2004 QuoteHowever, I have a problem if it's taught as being normal and healthy just like heterosexuality. Because you would prefer children are raised to view people as unhealthy and abnormal? Or is it that you''re afriad more people will be gay as a result of thinking that there's nothing wrong with it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #214 October 8, 2004 Quote I do not dislike or hate people based on that. No worries. I haven't perceived that from you. QuoteNow, in reference to your post, that’s not what I said. As a matter of fact, I said in one of my prior posts that it wouldn’t affect the survival of a species. Have you been smoking crack with Vinny? I quoted you as saying "Assuming that homosexuality is in fact a natural, however abnormal, occurrence, we should not promote it as a norm like heterosexuality because we’ve learned over thousands of years of civilization that it is not a best course of action with reference to the survivability of a species" because I copied and pasted it from your post. Now maybe you meant sustainability, but my question would be essentially the same. Show me where a species has declined because of homosexuality.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #215 October 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteMarriage is the most basic organization for a healthy society. And we come full circle back to the crux of the argument. Please give one single example of how gays being married will have any effect whatsoever on heterosexual marriage. Because the standard or definition for what marriage is in the first place and at its basis will have been lost. If you have a contract and the wording is later changed, it is not the same contract. If the wording in that contract is open ended and allows whatever union you prefer (gay, multiple, sister, dog, tree), then where's the standard? Where's the substance? It's not worth nearly what it was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #216 October 8, 2004 >I think you understand what I'm trying to say. I understand your underlying point, but I don't buy it. We no longer define women as stay-at-home baby incubators, nor do we condemn sterile people as we once did. We have advanced as a culture, and we now realize that people are defined by who they are, not by what gametes they can produce or what genitals they have (or which genital fits in which hole.) To do so is to take a huge step back in our development as a people. We went through this before with interracial marriages. "God meant for the races to stay separate; that's why he put them on different continents," read one decision by a US court on the matter. Now we have changed that to "God meant for gays not to marry; that's why penises fit in vaginas better than in mouths." In the end, I believe they will both be shown to be false conclusions - and we will be better off as a society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #217 October 8, 2004 BTW, props to you for remaining (somewhat) rational and cool headed while the majority of people on this thread (at this point) obviously do not agree with your views. One of the cleanest, and most interesting debate on SC I have read in a long time. Now, back to business: YOU'RE WRONG! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #218 October 8, 2004 QuoteIn the end . . . Was that pun intentional Bill Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #219 October 8, 2004 QuoteBecause you would prefer children are raised to view people as unhealthy and abnormal? Or is it that you''re afriad more people will be gay as a result of thinking that there's nothing wrong with it? 1. My still physically, mentally, emotionally developing child needs to be of an age where he/she can handle a concept such as this. 2. I would want my child to recognize it for what it is. It is in fact not normal and, therefore, abnormal. It is also not healthy in regards to family, marriage, and children. I would not want them to view someone of that preference as a lesser person any more than I'd want them to look at a person with a disease or debilitation of any kind in a demeaning way. I do think that there is the possibility of an environmental component in homosexuality and children are very influential. That is why I stated that I'd want them to be of an age where they could handle that kind of emotionally charged topic before it's forced upon them. That’s not to say that I think, if they’re “exposed”, they’ll all turn into homosexuals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #220 October 8, 2004 QuoteBTW, props to you for remaining (somewhat) rational and cool headed while the majority of people on this thread (at this point) obviously do not agree with your views. One of the cleanest, and most interesting debate on SC I have read in a long time. Now, back to business: YOU'RE WRONG! Thanks...but ain't it fun! I accept that everybody here doesn't agree with me. I'll defend my island till the end, though, damnit!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #221 October 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteLet me know if I'm mistaken. I can take it. People keep trying to tell you you're mistaken but you won't listen Sheesh I disagree but nothing personal..brother. Don't confuse my dislike of a lifestyle for dislike of a person. I realize this is a heated topic. Most here are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #222 October 8, 2004 Acutally I have to agree with Frenchy. This has been a most civil thread. Maybe you should try calling me a name or something edited to add: If you need help with something to call me let me know. I can help you out with some dooseys Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #223 October 8, 2004 QuoteBecause the standard or definition for what marriage is in the first place and at its basis will have been lost. If you have a contract and the wording is later changed, it is not the same contract. If the wording in that contract is open ended and allows whatever union you prefer (gay, multiple, sister, dog, tree), then where's the standard? Where's the substance? It's not worth nearly what it was. Sorry, but that's faulty logic. If I have a rental agreement with my landlord that allows pets. And you have a rental agreement with your landlord that prohibits pets. How does that effect my contract? They're both rental leases. Yours is different than mine, but what does that have to do with me? How has your current, existing marriage be changed in any way, shape, or form since gay marriages have taken place. What is going to be different for a couple that gets married in the future if gays also happen to be married? You say it will change the wording, or the definition. But I asked you, what effect whatsoever will it have? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #224 October 8, 2004 QuoteChildren have enough dificulties grwoing up and going through adolesecene without having a bunch of bizarre pseudo-families shoved in their face. Two mommies? Two daddies? Gee, I wonder which mate I get along bettter with? Is this a question that young boys and girls should have to ask? Other people have talked to some of the other points. But, you know, this applies to divorce and remarriage more than it applies to same-sex couples. Because there are a LOT more kids with two mommies or two daddies because the original matched set split up and got married again, than there will ever be from gay couples. And it's damaging to children to see marriages treated with disrespect by their parents. It might not be as damaging as a really bad marriage, but it's not the best option either. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #225 October 8, 2004 QuoteAcutally I have to agree with Frenchy. This has been a most civil thread. Maybe you should try calling me a name or something YOU SUCK! (no pun intended! ) Damnit! ...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
