sundevil777 102 #51 October 3, 2004 So, even if you reject the analogy, do you have a problem with the other possibilities or not? Who would be hurt? Did you have a problem with Woody Allen and his adopted daughter. Many/most people did, but at least she was adopted. Just calling something a fallacy does not make it so. If one should not reject same-sex marriage because there is no harm, then what about my comparisons. I don't see anyone willing to accept these.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jayruss 0 #52 October 4, 2004 QuoteQuoteHomosexuals do not reproduce, they recruit. OK, so what's your recruitor's name? I have brochures I have brochures __________________________________________________ "Beware how you take away hope from another human being." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jayruss 0 #53 October 4, 2004 Quote >>"When you've had an open dialogue with someone who is gay"<< Have done that, predominantly, all were victims of child abuse. (recruited) Humm, the limited number of skydivers I talked to last night in the bar had alcoholic beverages in their hands . . . therefore all skydivers must be alcoholics. __________________________________________________ "Beware how you take away hope from another human being." -Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #54 October 4, 2004 Regarding Same Sex marriage: Speaking as a probably-soon-to-be engaged hetero guy: WHO REALLY (Other than Religious Fundies who are terrified someone, out there, might be having a good time)GIVES A FLYING F**K IF THEY DO MARRY OR NOT??? Seriously people...don't you have jobs and families that ought to take precedence over your self-appointed moral crusade to save the world?? Here's a good test: 1. Does it pick your pocket? 2. Does it force you to do physically do something you don't already do? 3. Does it harm (other than your "Fragile sensabilites") you or your family in any way? If no to all of the above, STFU. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #55 October 4, 2004 QuoteWHO REALLY (Other than Religious Fundies who are terrified someone, out there, might be having a good time)GIVES A FLYING F**K IF THEY DO MARRY OR NOT??? Given that so many states have passed same-sex marriage bans, not just religious fundies (a little intolerant are we?) care about it. Maybe my comparisons make people too uncomfortable to address them directly.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badenhop 0 #56 October 4, 2004 Moral corruption affects us all, but perhaps the secular society has you brainwashed into thinking that "anything goes" is really ok. If "anything goes" IS really ok, then why does it bother you so much that it bothers me? What I mean to say is: if you are right, why then do you care what I think? Do you want me to STFU because fundamentally you know I'm correct.================================== I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton http://www.AveryBadenhop.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #57 October 4, 2004 QuoteMoral corruption affects us all, but perhaps the secular society has you brainwashed into thinking that "anything goes" is really ok. If "anything goes" IS really ok, then why does it bother you so much that it bothers me? What I mean to say is: if you are right, why then do you care what I think? Do you want me to STFU because fundamentally you know I'm correct. No, it's not that I think you're correct. It is a sense of profound irritation at the holier-than-thou attitudes put out by Fundies. Not everyone will fall into your narrow definition of how the world ought to be. Why can't you leave these people the hell alone? "Moral Corruption?" You self-assured arrogant eliteist... Corrupt compared to a spartan life filled with unsatisfied curiosities, self-deprivation, and pain? Uh, yeah Live your life the way you want to. You have no right to tell others how to live theirs, unless it harms someone else physically. Emotional bruises don't mean a damn thing. If people like you ran the world, this would be one uptight, boring place... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #58 October 4, 2004 QuoteIt is a sense of profound irritation at the holier-than-thou attitudes put out by Fundies. ... You self-assured arrogant eliteist Yes, you certainly are irritated, and intolerant. Remember it was Clinton that signed the Defense of Marriage Act. Was he a 'Fundie'? So how do you feel about the possible relationships I have suggested that don't intrude on other's?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #59 October 4, 2004 Quotethen why does it bother you so much that it bothers me? I'll answer for myself. Your personal opinions don't matter for a bucket of warm spit. But your type breeds prolifically and there are lots like you. The sheer volume of the noise that comes out your kind is deafening. We'd like you all to quiet down a bit so the rest of us can get on with the matter of living our otherwise enjoyable lives on this planet. You can have your quiet, disparaging opinions all day long but we'd appreciate it if you and those like you would stop directing the police and courts to oppress those of use who enjoy different pleasures than you do. It's really getting very old and tiresome. By the way, I still wonder about the questions I posed directly to you above. But I know that it's uncomfortable for you to address anything slightly out of your proscriptive habits of thought. But we're patient. Far more patient than your kind. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badenhop 0 #60 October 4, 2004 Actually, my opinions do matter, and the fact that you keep addressing them is a testament to that fact. Of course you want me to be quiet. Do you claim to know what "kind" I am, or what patience I have. I responded to your questions, maybe you didn't like the answers.================================== I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton http://www.AveryBadenhop.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #61 October 4, 2004 QuoteCorrupt compared to a spartan life filled with unsatisfied curiosities, self-deprivation, and pain? Hmmm. You don't know Avery, do you? QuoteYou self-assured arrogant eliteist... You might also want to review the forum rules on personal attacks. QuoteIf people like you ran the world, this would be one uptight, boring place... If people like Avery ran the world, I've a feeling it'd be faaaar from uptight or boring. Have a look at his web site and tell me what on there looks uptight and boring. I've spent some time jumping with Avery. Uptight he is not. And if he's boring, the rest of us are pretty much comatose (especially those guys in Atlanta ).-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #62 October 4, 2004 QuoteSo, even if you reject the analogy, do you have a problem with the other possibilities or not? Who would be hurt? Did you have a problem with Woody Allen and his adopted daughter. Many/most people did, but at least she was adopted. Just calling something a fallacy does not make it so. If one should not reject same-sex marriage because there is no harm, then what about my comparisons. I don't see anyone willing to accept these. it is a fallacy because it is the very definition of a "red herring" the others also apply to varied degrees. What make this a completely invalid argument (and the reason most ignore it when it has been raised before) is it is asking the wrong questions entirely. The real question is why should same sex marriages be illegal? Every thing else is simply a distracter. Without good, solid evidence of harm to the individual or to society at large, the government should not prohibit ANY action or agreement between consenting adults. All individuals should enjoy the same legal rights and protections as every other regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc.... All marriage does from a legal standpoint is codify the protections between consenting adults. Making same sex marriage illegal is a blatant attempt to impose ones religious morality on others, something our constitution was clearly written to prevent.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #63 October 4, 2004 QuoteHmmm. You don't know Avery, do you? If Avery's life is so great, wonderful, and fulfilled, why all the hate?Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #64 October 4, 2004 Honestly, I don't really see much hate. Avery has his own set of values and morals. I'll definitely say those values are determined by himself, his personal beliefs (including religious beliefs) and what he feels is right, rather than being derived from the mass of society. I see this as a good thing. I don't happen to agree with him on this issue, and I don't share his religious convictions, but you have to respect someone who believes as they truly believe, and aren't afraid to say so, despite the condemnation of mainstream society. When someone does this with a complex set of personal beliefs, various of which fit into widely divergent places in the spectrum, it engenders even more respect. What I'm saying is that I know enough about him to know that he's following his own conscience--and that it probably leads him to conclusions both left and right of what is socially acceptable.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #65 October 4, 2004 QuoteMoral corruption affects us all, but perhaps the secular society has you brainwashed into thinking that "anything goes" is really ok. And which moral would you be refering to? Are you THE chosen one, guardian of universal morality? Come out of the closet already... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #66 October 4, 2004 QuoteI'll definitely say those values are determined by himself, his personal beliefs (including religious beliefs) and what he feels is right, rather than being derived from the mass of society. I see this as a good thing. It would be a good thing if his "evidence" were based on fact. A small amount of research on his part would prove him wrong. When one is as adamant about a point of view as Avery is, and they don't bother to do Any research, but instead use urban myth to support oppression, that is hateful. I'm going to start a push to ban BASE jumping. Everyone knows BASE jumpers are careless, law breaking adrenaline junkies who don't care about others. They're more than willing to break the law and endanger the public safety to get their fix. Everybody knows BASE jumping is like crack. That's part of my set of values and morals. Respect me for having those beliefs and spouting them from the top of my soap box. It doesn't matter that my view isn't based on any facts. I'm not doing any research either. I don't have to. I can easily get societal support by appealing to their sense of fear, scaring the shit out of them with innunendo.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #67 October 4, 2004 QuoteIt would be a good thing if his "evidence" were based on fact. Sure. But by their nature, religious beliefs are usually based largely on faith. I can't demand that all my friends provide factual basis for things they believe on a moral level. That's why it's called faith. QuoteI'm going to start a push to ban BASE jumping. Sure. Want to talk about it? We can start a thread to discuss that, if you like.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #68 October 4, 2004 QuoteSure. But by their nature, religious beliefs are usually based largely on faith. Faith tells him all gay people were molested (recruited) as a child? Tom, you can do better than that.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #69 October 4, 2004 Actually, I was referring to his (faith based) beliefs that homosexuality is wrong, and that marriage ought to be a "one man-one woman" arrangement. I don't believe that any kind of meaningful research on childhood abuse and sexual orientation would be even remotely possible, as it would be incredibly fraught with political controversy. I personally don't think the two things are related, but I don't think that there is really any convincing evidence one way or another on the topic.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #70 October 4, 2004 QuoteI personally don't think the two things are related, but I don't think that there is really any convincing evidence one way or another on the topic. He certainly must. He never said this beliefs dictate, or the bible says. When asked if he ever talked to gay people he said "Have done that, predominantly, all were victims of child abuse. (recruited)." Which we all know is garbage. If he truly had discussed homosexuality with Actual homosexuals, he never would have made that statement. But then what do I know I'm just a homosexual. Btw, where did Avery go? I'd rather discuss his opinions with him. Oh, that right I can't, 'cause he keeps coming up with the same ridiculous arguments. I have friends who are devout Christians. One being a skydiver that helped me out a great deal as a newbie. Although we disagree with each other, we have enough mutual respect not to spout garbage about each other's views. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Carmen because she stands up for what she believes in Without being negative and hateful. Avery could take a lesson or two from someone who is a True Christian.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #71 October 4, 2004 QuoteVictory for what? The homosexual agenda?Quote What's the agenda? Is it like some ultra top secret gay subversion headed by the international gay conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #72 October 4, 2004 QuoteThe real question is why should same sex marriages be illegal? Every thing else is simply a distracter. Without good, solid evidence of harm to the individual or to society at large, the government should not prohibit ANY action or agreement between consenting adults. All individuals should enjoy the same legal rights and protections as every other regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc.... So, at the risk of changing the 'real' question: Why should polygamy be illegal? Why should mariage between your father and brother be illegal? I will go so far as to say that even if it was not illegal, most would admit to finding it objectionable. And on and on... QuoteMaking same sex marriage illegal is a blatant attempt to impose ones religious morality on others, something our constitution was clearly written to prevent. If the authors of the constitution had intended to prevent that, they could have made it much clearer than you claim. What president from what political party was it that signed the defense of marriage act? Oh, right, it was Clinton.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #73 October 4, 2004 QuoteIf the authors of the constitution had intended to prevent that, they could have made it much clearer than you claim. Well, it's not like they made their intentions crystal clear regarding slavery, women's right to vote, etc... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #74 October 5, 2004 Quoteit's not like they made their intentions crystal clear regarding slavery, women's right to vote, etc... Sure it is. They intended for slavery to be legal, at least in some states, and for women not to have the right to vote. What's unclear about that?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tunaplanet 0 #75 October 5, 2004 QuoteSame-Sex Marriage Amendment Fails in House Of course it did. Can anyone give a logical reason as to why it should be legal? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 3 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
sundevil777 102 #72 October 4, 2004 QuoteThe real question is why should same sex marriages be illegal? Every thing else is simply a distracter. Without good, solid evidence of harm to the individual or to society at large, the government should not prohibit ANY action or agreement between consenting adults. All individuals should enjoy the same legal rights and protections as every other regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc.... So, at the risk of changing the 'real' question: Why should polygamy be illegal? Why should mariage between your father and brother be illegal? I will go so far as to say that even if it was not illegal, most would admit to finding it objectionable. And on and on... QuoteMaking same sex marriage illegal is a blatant attempt to impose ones religious morality on others, something our constitution was clearly written to prevent. If the authors of the constitution had intended to prevent that, they could have made it much clearer than you claim. What president from what political party was it that signed the defense of marriage act? Oh, right, it was Clinton.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #73 October 4, 2004 QuoteIf the authors of the constitution had intended to prevent that, they could have made it much clearer than you claim. Well, it's not like they made their intentions crystal clear regarding slavery, women's right to vote, etc... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #74 October 5, 2004 Quoteit's not like they made their intentions crystal clear regarding slavery, women's right to vote, etc... Sure it is. They intended for slavery to be legal, at least in some states, and for women not to have the right to vote. What's unclear about that?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #75 October 5, 2004 QuoteSame-Sex Marriage Amendment Fails in House Of course it did. Can anyone give a logical reason as to why it should be legal? Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
