TheAnvil 0 #26 September 29, 2004 Au contraire Monsieur Billvon, if you are referring to the remarks by Messrs. Powell and Bush in the article PhillyKev posted. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #27 September 29, 2004 QuoteI think you might want to aim your comments at our secretary of state - he is the one saying things that directly contradict Bush's statements. Context is just a real pain in the ass sometimes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #28 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteThat's war. Agreed. But why does Bush keep saying that everythign is under control and there will be free elections in a couple months. He's lying to the world and trying to pretend that there ISN'T a war still going on. Sad that there are so many that can't see that. No - he is being optomistic. It's called leadership. If he wanted everyone to be depressed, tell them bad things are happening. If you want people to have higher morale, you tell them about the good things that are happening. Look at what he said, "things are improving" he was not specific, in fact the scool systems and infrastructure ARE improving. What is bad about saying that? Does everything in your world have to be doom and gloom? Or is that only when your party doesn't get to run it? So Bush doesn't think the American people can take the truth, so he lies to them.. OK, glad you finally admit it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #29 September 29, 2004 QuoteSo Bush doesn't think the American people can take the truth, so he lies to them.. OK, glad you finally admit it. Tell me you really didn't just go there. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #30 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThat's war. Agreed. But why does Bush keep saying that everythign is under control and there will be free elections in a couple months. He's lying to the world and trying to pretend that there ISN'T a war still going on. Sad that there are so many that can't see that. No - he is being optomistic. It's called leadership. If he wanted everyone to be depressed, tell them bad things are happening. If you want people to have higher morale, you tell them about the good things that are happening. Look at what he said, "things are improving" he was not specific, in fact the scool systems and infrastructure ARE improving. What is bad about saying that? Does everything in your world have to be doom and gloom? Or is that only when your party doesn't get to run it? So Bush doesn't think the American people can take the truth, so he lies to them.. OK, glad you finally admit it. That statement, in court, would be objected to and the objection sustained, for supposition. There is no basis or congruity between what you are assuming I meant and what I wrote. Try again.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #31 September 29, 2004 QuoteSo Bush doesn't think the American people can take the truth, so he lies to them.. OK, glad you finally admit it. Lie: A falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth; an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive. It’s not a lie to emphasize success rather than failure. He doesn’t hide the fact that there has been great sacrifice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #32 September 29, 2004 QuoteAhhh...now I get it. You believe his lies despite everyone else disputing his statements. No, its called "frame of reference". Bush was a fighter pilot and only a louie at that. Powell was an Infantryman and a General. Bush is a politician, Powell is not. Quote“The strength of the group is the strength of the leader—I am the first believer Leaders must have the quiet confidence, the certainty, of professional preparation and personal conviction that the task can and will be done. If so, it will.” ––Vince Lombardi Leaders must be confident. Quote“The pre–eminent quality that all great commanders have owned in common is a positiveness of manner and of viewpoint, the power to concentrate on means to a given end, to the exclusion of exaggerated fears of the obstacles that lie athwart the course. Military service is no place for those who hang back and view through a glass darkly. The man who falls into the vice of thinking negatively must perforce in time become fearful of all action; he lacks the power of decision, because it has been destroyed by his habit of thought, and even when circumstances compel him to say yes, he remains uncommitted in spirit.” ––BG S. L. A. Marshall Leaders must be positive."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #33 September 29, 2004 >I don't believe he portrays it as an unqualified success. He has actually used the term "catastrophic success" to describe the war. He poo-poos CIA intelligence (intelligence from his new, improved CIA) that the war is headed for serious problems. He touts the new security of Iraq every chance he gets, and attacks Kerry for saying that we face serious challenges in Iraq. In short, he is doing everything he can to portray it as a glorious success for the US, one he orchestrated. It is his last remaining card to play, and he will play it as best he can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #34 September 29, 2004 Major Powell did not look so good when he was leading the unsuccessful attempt to cover up the My Lai massacre.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #35 September 29, 2004 QuoteMajor Powell did not look so good when he was leading the unsuccessful attempt to cover up the My Lai massacre. Nice red herring.... But LT Kerry didn't look so good when he sold his fellow soldiers up the river to get on TV and advance his political career. Quote“The untruthful soldier trifles with the lives of his countrymen and the honor and safety of his country.” ––GEN Douglas MacArthur "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #36 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo Bush doesn't think the American people can take the truth, so he lies to them.. OK, glad you finally admit it. Lie: A falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth; an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive. It’s not a lie to emphasize success rather than failure. He doesn’t hide the fact that there has been great sacrifice. Bush said there are 100,000 trained and equipped Iraqi national security personnel. That was an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive. There are not. There are less than 10,000 according to the Pentagon. How can that possible be construed as anything but a lie? Bush said that $9 billion will be spent on Iraqi rebuilding in the next several months. Armitage said that we will be increasing spending to $300-$400 million per month. Bush uttered a falshood for the purpose of deception. How can that be construed as anything but a lie? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #37 September 29, 2004 Quote Bush said that $9 billion will be spent on Iraqi rebuilding in the next several months. Armitage said that we will be increasing spending to $300-$400 million per month. Bush uttered a falshood for the purpose of deception. How can that be construed as anything but a lie? I'm nopt sure about the first argument you put forth as far as the 100k police - But the second one - Jeeze - 300 to 400 per month - Was rome built in a day? It will take years to rebuild Iraq - 300 mil x 30months = 9 billion. Where is the lie again?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #38 September 29, 2004 QuoteBut the second one - Jeeze - 300 to 400 per month - Was rome built in a day? It will take years to rebuild Iraq - 300 mil x 30months = 9 billion. Where is the lie again? I guess if you believe that "the next several months" is the same as "30 months" it's not a lie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #39 September 29, 2004 That is pretty much it.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #40 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe Republican president said more than $9 billion would be spent on contracts in the next several months... QuoteDeputy Secretary of State ... hoped to speed up the pace of spending to between $300 million and $400 million a month. The first says we're going to be entering into contracts over the next several months totaling $9B. The other says we're spending $300M+ per month, presumably on those contracts. Last time I checked, you didn't pay construction contractors up front. Nice try Kev. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #41 September 29, 2004 QuoteThat is pretty much it. During the debate on Bush's Medicare bill he released one set of cost estimates to Congress, while another more accurate (higher) set had been prepared by the White House but was withheld from Congress until after the vote. Tell me now that was not a deliberate deception. In his 2000 acceptance speech at the RNC Bush made "fixing" Social Security one of his highest priorities. 4 years later he has done absolutely ZIP, NADA, ZILCH. Deliberate deception to get the votes of Seniors. In his 2002 (note that this is after 9/11) State of the Union address he promised a deficit that would be small and short term. He then enacted policies that decreased revenue and increased government spending, thus giving us a record and long-term deficit. Deliberate deception.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #42 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuote Seems like it's going to get worse before it gets better. That's war. But wait, I thought it was mission accomplished and the war was over? Last I checked, we have lost control of about 4 major cities in Iraq. Seems to me that has the war machine in reverse. That's ok, if we keep throwing American troops at them to catch bullets I'm sure it will get better._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #43 September 29, 2004 Powell has most generally told the truth. That's why we don't see much of him.http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #44 September 29, 2004 Quote>I don't believe he portrays it as an unqualified success. He has actually used the term "catastrophic success" to describe the war. He poo-poos CIA intelligence (intelligence from his new, improved CIA) that the war is headed for serious problems. He touts the new security of Iraq every chance he gets, and attacks Kerry for saying that we face serious challenges in Iraq. In short, he is doing everything he can to portray it as a glorious success for the US, one he orchestrated. It is his last remaining card to play, and he will play it as best he can. It doesn't matter what is really happening Bill. Just like it didn't matter that we didn't have real proof to go to war. What matters is GW keeps going on the air and selling apple pie and the American dream and how we will bring it to the rest of the world and keep us safe. His nationalistic and patriotic rhetoric is all it takes for most people to believe him it seems. Despite the real proof other wise, even from the new CIA that GW set up._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #45 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteSo Bush doesn't think the American people can take the truth, so he lies to them.. OK, glad you finally admit it. Lie: A falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth; an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive. It’s not a lie to emphasize success rather than failure. He doesn’t hide the fact that there has been great sacrifice. No but he's hiding the chances of how much sacrafice lies ahead and that's called being a bullshit artist.... Or snake oil salesman. My life's motto is to ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth - no matter how much it hurts. If Bush thinks he's winning support by painting a rosy picture rather than giving us what it really is and what does lie ahead then he's an even bigger stump than Kerry. Jump -----------------Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #46 September 29, 2004 QuoteNo but he's hiding the chances of how much sacrafice lies ahead and that's called being a bullshit artist.... Huh... (hiding the chances of how much sacrifice lies ahead...) What are you talking about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #47 September 29, 2004 QuoteQuoteNo but he's hiding the chances of how much sacrafice lies ahead and that's called being a bullshit artist.... Huh... (hiding the chances of how much sacrifice lies ahead...) What are you talking about? Lemme rephrase (I admit after re reading that I looks like I went to the bush school of writing). This whole thread started with a statement by Bush - QuotePresident Bush, who as recently as last Thursday insisted Iraq was moving slowly toward better days. Ever hear anything negative about Iraq from Bush? Ever hear anything from Bush about how many more of our friends are going to make the ultimate sacrifice over there? Ever hear him talk about a time after Iraq? I've got friends over there and what I hear from them is nothing close to what I would think if I just took Bush at his word. He's not giving us the entire outlook. Some say it's being a good leader - I disagree. A good leader tells you exactly what the situation is, what the prognosis is and what we need to do to rectify the situation. All I hear from Bush is QuotePresident Bush, who as recently as last Thursday insisted Iraq was moving slowly toward better days. Right now I think that is a very large load of bullshit. We're screwing the pooch hard here and letting the real criminal run free. The one directly responsible for killing our citizens and attacking our homeland. ----------------Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #48 September 29, 2004 LOL. You can tell Kerry is falling fast in the polls by the way PK is Googling every minute detail he can find on Bush. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #49 September 29, 2004 QuoteEver hear anything negative about Iraq from Bush? Yes. He is very clear that the job is difficult and that we have a long way to go. QuoteEver hear anything from Bush about how many more of our friends are going to make the ultimate sacrifice over there? He expresses sympathy. Do you think freedom is free? QuoteEver hear him talk about a time after Iraq? Yes. He speaks of when it might be a free democratic example in the midst of Islamic theocracies that sponsor terror QuoteI've got friends over there and what I hear from them is nothing close to what I would think if I just took Bush at his word. I was deployed on an Army Spec Ops A-team in Afghanistan in 2002. I’ve also got friends in the Army as well as some working contract in both Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere). They tell me of hardships as well as progress. QuoteHe's not giving us the entire outlook. I think he is. You’re just picking out what you want or don’t want to hear to support your liberal stance. QuoteA good leader tells you exactly what the situation is, what the prognosis is and what we need to do to rectify the situation. I agree. QuoteAll I hear from Bush is QuotePresident Bush, who as recently as last Thursday insisted Iraq was moving slowly toward better days. I agree with that “overall” assessment. QuoteRight now I think that is a very large load of bullshit. We're screwing the pooch hard here and letting the real criminal run free. The one directly responsible for killing our citizens and attacking our homeland. He’s not free. He’s on the run and will be until we catch him or he is killed. Saddam won’t be sending him any more money any time soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #50 September 29, 2004 QuoteLOL. You can tell Kerry is falling fast in the polls by the way PK is Googling every minute detail he can find on Bush. Yea, I hear that CBS now uses what PK does to gage their polls. Kev! you are the baramoter of the people now! woohoo_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
