Who's lying? Powell or Bush?

[PhillyKev 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040926/pl_nm/iraq_usa_dc

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Secretary of State Colin Powell on Sunday said anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world had increased and the insurgency in Iraq was worsening.

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His comments were less optimistic than those of President Bush, who as recently as last Thursday insisted Iraq was moving slowly toward better days.

So is it worsening or getting better? Powell says one thing, Bush says the other. IMO, Powell is much more credible. But I guess Bush is afraid to tell the truth because then he would be "flip-flopping". Much better to be consistent and say the same thing over and over again even if it's a lie.

[PhillyKev 0]

Oh gee....here's some more optimistic news from Bush that apparently no one else supports.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=8&u=/nm/20040926/pl_nm/iraq_usa_assertions_dc

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He [Bush] said nearly 100,000 "fully trained and equipped" Iraqi soldiers, police officers and other security personnel are already at work, and that would rise to 125,000 by the end of this year.

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They [Pentagon reports] estimated that 22,700 Iraqi personnel have received enough basic training to make them "minimally effective at their tasks," in contrast to the 100,000 figure cited by Bush.

[turtlespeed 226]

Did you forget to post this part, or did it not fit your point of view?

"But I think that that will be overcome in due course because what the Muslim world will see as well as the rest of the world. . . ." ~Colin Powell

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

It didn't fit the direct contradiction in their statements. Powell said things are worsening but THINKS things will be better in the future. Bush said things are getting better.

Are they getting better or getting worse? One of those two statements in wrong.

[PhillyKev 0]

Gee...another lie from Bush.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=4&u=/nm/20040925/pl_nm/campaign_bush_dc

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The Republican president said more than $9 billion would be spent on contracts in the next several months to rebuild Iraqi schools, refurbish hospitals, repair bridges and upgrade the electrical grid and communication system.

LIE

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Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage told lawmakers on Friday he hoped to speed up the pace of spending to between $300 million and $400 million a month.

Hmmm.....might not be a lie. If Bush honestly believes that 2 years is the same as "the next several months"

[PhillyKev 0]

From the same link as above.

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Bush on Saturday also touted efforts to train Iraqi security forces. He said nearly 100,000 "fully trained and equipped" Iraqi soldiers, police officers and other security personnel were already working and that the Iraqi government was on track to build a force of over 200,000 security personnel by the end of 2005.

Bush lies and says there are 100,000 trained troops. And will be 200,000 by the end of 2005.

Here's the truth.

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Documents prepared by Defense Department officials and given to lawmakers showed fewer than 100,000 would be trained by year's end. They also showed that of the nearly 90,000 now in the police force, only 8,169 had the full eight-week academy training. It will be July 2006 before the administration's new goal of 135,000 fully trained police is met.

[TheAnvil 0]

You really need to stop seeing things through partisan filters and read what the men said. You're reading what you want into it out of hatred for the current administration.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Ummm...he said one thing, and other people said the opposite. Not sure how I filtered that.

[Rebecca 0]

I read in Newsweek that the Iraqi police force they're trying to mount is riddled with insurgents coming in as moles to undermine from within - and they're succeeding. I'll look at it again when I go home for lunch to see exactly what it said.

Sad. Seems like it's going to get worse before it gets better.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[turtlespeed 226]

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Seems like it's going to get worse before it gets better.

That's war.

But the world will be a better place because of it.
*shrug*
Sad that there are so many that can't see that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

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Sad. Seems like it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I don't doubt that. The pentagon doesn't doubt that, Powell doesn't doubt that. The only person who seems to doubt that is Bush. He keeps telling us how great things are going and how successful it's been under his leadership.

And people believe him, that's what's scary. Then they accuse me of being partisan and filtering things. Yeah, I filter out what Bush says because everyone else disputes what comes out of his lying mouth.

[PhillyKev 0]

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That's war.

Agreed. But why does Bush keep saying that everythign is under control and there will be free elections in a couple months. He's lying to the world and trying to pretend that there ISN'T a war still going on.

Sad that there are so many that can't see that.

[Jimbo 0]

Why does one have to be a lie? It seems to me that both statements are true. Anti-american sentiment in the muslem world has likely increased - though I think that Anti-western would be a more appropriate description. As far as Iraq is concerned, things are improving there - you'll just never hear about it on your local 11 o'clock news.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Rebecca 0]

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He's lying to the world and trying to pretend that there ISN'T a war still going on.

Maybe he's lying to himself. Quite possibly he's convinced that's the truth, or at least a reasonable facsimilie thereof.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[turtlespeed 226]

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That's war.

Agreed. But why does Bush keep saying that everythign is under control and there will be free elections in a couple months. He's lying to the world and trying to pretend that there ISN'T a war still going on.

Sad that there are so many that can't see that.

No - he is being optomistic. It's called leadership. If he wanted everyone to be depressed, tell them bad things are happening. If you want people to have higher morale, you tell them about the good things that are happening. Look at what he said, "things are improving" he was not specific, in fact the scool systems and infrastructure ARE improving. What is bad about saying that? Does everything in your world have to be doom and gloom? Or is that only when your party doesn't get to run it?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[pajarito 0]

Sounds like many around here want the "quick fix", "instant gratification", and "what can you do for me right now" without the work required for a real solution with long term success and victory. Who wouldn't? That is usually just fantasy, however. Real things are rarely that simple. It takes time and progress is being made.

[Rebecca 0]

Try this:

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If you want people to have higher morale approve of you in the polls and vote for you, you tell them about the good things that are happening they want to hear.

Just another way of looking at it, which has been applicable to all presidents up for re-elect, not just this one or this party.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[Ron 10]

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Oh gee....here's some more optimistic news from Bush that apparently no one else supports.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/...aq_usa_assertions_dc


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He [Bush] said nearly 100,000 "fully trained and equipped" Iraqi soldiers, police officers and other security personnel are already at work, and that would rise to 125,000 by the end of this year.

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They [Pentagon reports] estimated that 22,700 Iraqi personnel have received enough basic training to make them "minimally effective at their tasks," in contrast to the 100,000 figure cited by Bush.

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Different levels of effective. Different views on what is considered effective...

Many answers to that one.

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Secretary of State Colin Powell on Sunday said anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world had increased and the insurgency in Iraq was worsening.

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His comments were less optimistic than those of President Bush, who as recently as last Thursday insisted Iraq was moving slowly toward better days.

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No difference there Muslims can hate us even if they are not in Iraq.

Things are getting better in Iraq. They have elections comming up, freedom of speech. Yes violence has risen, and expect it to rise more before Jan.

Again, not different.

Nice try though....You would think with you supporting the flip/flop king you would be better at see a flip/flop.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[TheAnvil 0]

Nope. Read it again.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

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Sounds like many around here want the "quick fix", "instant gratification", and "what can you do for me right now" without the work required for a real solution with long term success and victory.

Not at all. I just want honestly. Bush seems to be pandering to the type of person you're tallking about by lying about the current state of affairs.

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Real things are rarely that simple. It takes time and progress is being made.

How can you say progress is being made when we abandoned the Sunni triangle to insurgent forces and Zaqarwi's flag is flying over Samarra?

Sounds like a step backward if you ask me.

[pajarito 0]

It's not very "honest" of you to say that Bush is "lying" when he talks of the achievements in the war. Our troops are accomplishing much. It's also not very "honest" of you to say that we've "abandoned" the Sunni triangle.

[billvon 3,131]

>But why does Bush keep saying that everythign is under control and
>there will be free elections in a couple months.

Because there will be an election HERE in a few weeks. It is to his advantage to portray the war as an unqualified success.

[billvon 3,131]

> It's not very "honest" of you to say that Bush is "lying" when he
>talks of the achievements in the war.

I think you might want to aim your comments at our secretary of state - he is the one saying things that directly contradict Bush's statements.

[PhillyKev 0]

Ahhh...now I get it. You believe his lies despite everyone else disputing his statements.

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Things are getting better in Iraq. They have elections comming up

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell has said the insurgency is worsening in Iraq, threatening plans to hold elections in January next year. On Tuesday, Washington's strongest ally in the Middle East, King Abdullah of Jordan, went further.

The monarch said it was too dangerous to hold elections in Iraq and said if the U.S.-backed interim Iraqi government pushed ahead with them, extremists could well be the biggest winners.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3695634.stm

Last week, US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said he thinks the elections will happen in most of Iraq.

Time Magazine reports that the Bush administration had had a plan to use the Central Intelligence Agency to funnel money to candidates it favored in the forthcoming Iraqi elections. The rationale given was that Iran was bankrolling its own candidates.

This plan was apparently derailed in part by the intervention of Democratic Minority Leader in the House, Nancy Pelosi, who remonstrated with National Security Adviser Condaleeza Rice about it.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041004-702122,00.html

[pajarito 0]

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Because there will be an election HERE in a few weeks. It is to his advantage to portray the war as an unqualified success.

I don't believe he portrays it as an unqualified success. He is very clear and realistic that there is a long road ahead and that we are fighting a dangerous and determined enemy. He just also makes it very clear that we are also very formitable and determined and that we will ultimately succeed. Unlike Kerry who has already accepted defeat in his mind. It is understandable, with his background, why he would take this stance.