The Charleston Gazette, THE DRAFT

[Jib 0]

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It's supposed to be a stop gap for people who live longer than they expected and planned for. It's not supposed to replace planning for you retirement.

Unfortunately, with advances in science, most people cash in on the insurance and the company can't handle it.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[PhillyKev 0]

Agreed. The age when SS kicks in should be raised. Lots of other changes need to be made as well. Bush promised to make these changes and hasn't done squat.

[wmw999 2,589]

I was listening to the Jim Lehrer News Hour last week, and heard a really good debate on Social Security between advisers of the two camps.

I've already demonstrated my ignorance on the overall structure. I'm not at all convinced that privatization is the way. However, Sen. Graham's assertion that a plan that doesn't address the long-term solvency without simply putting it off is wrong does bear some consideration.

I recommend reading it through -- it was an extremely polite and to-the-point debate. And, frankly, I thought that Sen. Graham came off better, because he was sticking closer to points rather than campaigning. I understand why (no Democrat would be able to get a plan even close to being judged right now -- heck, they can't even get into briefings on some issues), but it still spoke well for Sen. Graham.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rickjump1 0]

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SS is not a savings account. It was intended as an old age pension, and as a way for people who no longer were able to work to continue to live at least a meager life. I can open a savings account if I want one.

You know, it took me a while to understand why my stepfather made such a big production out of his social security. Then I remembered that he had gone through the depression as a kid, fought in WWII, and worked hard all his life. I think he figured he earned it even though he did not necessarily need it, and by damn he was going to take it. He and my mother are both dead now, and I kinda get a similar feeling. Hope something is left.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 2,150]

From GWB's acceptance speech, RNC, August 2000:


"Social Security has been called the third rail of American politics, the one you're not supposed to touch because it might shock you. But if you don't touch it, you cannot fix it.

"And I intend to fix it.

"To the seniors in this country, you earned your benefits, you made your plans, and President George W. Bush will keep the promise of Social Security, no changes, no reductions, no way.

"Our opponents will say otherwise. This is their last parting ploy, and don't believe a word of it.

"Now is the time -- now is the time for Republicans and Democrats to end the politics of fear and save Social Security together.

"For younger workers, we will give you the option, your choice, to put part of your payroll taxes into sound, responsible investments.

"This will mean a higher return on your money in over 30 or 40 years, a nest egg to help your retirement or to pass on to your children.

"When this money is in your name, in your account, it's just not a program, it's your property.

"Now is the time to give American workers security and independence that no politician can ever take away.

"Now is the time to give American workers security and independence that no politician can ever take away.


What has he done?

Sweet F**K ALL

Yet another lie from Bush.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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When Democratic vice presidential nominee John Edwards spoke in Parkersburg last week, he vowed: “There will be no draft when John Kerry is president.” His declaration drew a standing ovation from the crowd.

So Edwards says it. And everyone believes it.

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Meanwhile, President Bush, campaigning in Missouri, promised that there will be no draft. He said improving military pay, housing and medical care will attract enough recruits to supply the needed fighting forces.

But the Prez himself says it, and no one listens?

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However, Bush plans a sneaky “backdoor draft,” Democrats Kerry and Edwards allege. Speaking Friday in Albuquerque, Kerry said Bush secretly intends a major Guard and Reserve mobilization just after the Nov. 2 election. Kerry charged:

Thats not a Draft of any type...If you are in the Reserve of the NG...YOU SIGNED UP. It really pisses me off when people who signed up to defend the US take paychecks for years and then if they get called up bitch about it...Hey, YOU SIGNED UP!!!!.. That is NOT a draft.

BTW the two draft bills in Congress were both started by DEMOCRATS.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tunaplanet 0]

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BTW the two draft bills in Congress were both started by DEMOCRATS.

Correct. I posted that same fact a few days ago and no one responded. You can see why. Liberals love to ignore factual information that shows their arguments to be null and void.

Forty-two

[Ron 10]

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Correct. I posted that same fact a few days ago and no one responded. You can see why. Liberals love to ignore factual information that shows their arguments to be null and void.

They can't be confused with facts Tuna.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

Or maybe we just like to ignore Tuna's trolling.

The Draft is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue. Take a look at H.R. 3598, The Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001, introduced by Republicans Smith of Michigan and Weldon of Pennsylvania on December 28, 2001 and later referred to the House Committee on Armed Services and the Subcommittee on Military Personnel. Rep Roscoe Bartlett (R) is a co-sponsor.

The difference that you'll find between the democratic and republican bills to reinstitute the draft is that the republicans introduced it with provision that include deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including high school, hardship, disability, and health. The loopholes used by the rich to avoid the draft. Whereas the democrat sponsored bills specifically do NOT include those provisions as their stated motivation was to make sure that the children of congress were also in jeopardy before they vote for war.

Then take a look at H.CON.RES.368, introduced on March 20, 2002 by Rep. Ron Paul (R) and co-sponsored by Rep John Conyers, Jr. (D), Rep John J. Duncan, J (R), Jr. , Rep Cynthia McKinney (D), Rep George Miller (D), Rep Patsy Mink (D), and Rep Pete Fornay Stark (D). This bill is co-sponsored by both parties and is against a draft.

The only definining line of Republican vs. Democrat in the draft issue is in the presidential arena where Kerry stated he would not sign a draft bill. Bush has made no such claim.

[Ron 10]

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The difference that you'll find between the democratic and republican bills to reinstitute the draft is that the republicans introduced it with provision that include deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including high school, hardship, disability, and health

How is high school, hardship, disability, and health a problem?

You would rather we draft kids before they finish HS?

Single Moms?

Guys in wheelchairs?

Thats pretty sad really.

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Then take a look at H.CON.RES.368, introduced on March 20, 2002 by Rep. Ron Paul (R) and co-sponsored by Rep John Conyers, Jr. (D), Rep John J. Duncan, J (R), Jr. , Rep Cynthia McKinney (D), Rep George Miller (D), Rep Patsy Mink (D), and Rep Pete Fornay Stark (D). This bill is co-sponsored by both parties and is against a draft.

Well I am glad to see that both sides can agree sometimes...But the issue is WHO WANTS A DRAFT, not who does not want a draft.

And both bills that WANT a draft are DEMOCRATS.

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The only definining line of Republican vs. Democrat in the draft issue is in the presidential arena where Kerry stated he would not sign a draft bill. Bush has made no such claim.

Kerry said he would not sign it...But that means nothing with Kerry...Remember there could be "Complexities" that make him flip flop later.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

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And both bills that WANT a draft are DEMOCRATS.

You say both bills that want a draft are from democrats. But there are MORE THAN TWO bills. There is also the REPUBLICAN drafted bill.

[Ron 10]

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You say both bills that want a draft are from democrats. But there are MORE THAN TWO bills. There is also the REPUBLICAN drafted bill.

From your post the Republican bill is against he draft.

But either way even if there is a Republican bill thats

Reps 1
Dems 2

So your statment about the Reps wanting the draft is still BS.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

All I said was that it's not a partisan issue. It's an individual candidate issue. There are a number of democrats that support a draft and many more who don't. There are a number of republicans that support a draft and many more that don't.

YOUR statement that it's the Democrats that want a draft is what is BS.

Edit - And read my post again. I noted TWO republican bills. The first, is co-sponsored entirely by republicans and is calling for a draft. The second was drafted by a republican but co-sponsored by both republicans AND democrats AGAINST the draft.

One more time. It is not a partisan issue.

[Ron 10]

You are the one that made it partisan.

YOUR stament about Kerry saying there will not be a draft, but ignoring Bush saying the same thing.

Besides we all know that there could be "Complexities" that make Kerry "Re-evaluate" and then Flip-flop.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

Whatever...nice back pedal. You and Tuna were both trolling saying that "BOTH bills supporting the draft are sponsored by democrats". You were either unaware of the truth, or deliberately misleading. Sorry I took the time to open your eyes just so you could quickly slam them shut again.

My statement about Kerry and Bush is not partisan. It is about the two individual candidates and what they have stated. I never tried to claim or imply that one or the other represent their party's platform on the draft.

[Ron 10]

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You and Tuna were both trolling saying that "BOTH bills supporting the draft are sponsored by democrats".

Both of the MAJOR ones ARE.

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My statement about Kerry and Bush is not partisan. It is about the two individual candidates and what they have stated. I never tried to claim or imply that one or the other represent their party's platform on the draft.

WOW you should be lawyer...All those words just to cover your ass.

You CLEARLY wrote that Kerry would not support a draft but Bush has not said that....

And Bush said EXACTLY that..

Sorry to confuse with facts PK.

You may go about on your ignoring the facts way again.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[PhillyKev 0]

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And Bush said EXACTLY that..

He did? When?

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Both of the MAJOR ones ARE.

Why are you defining them as major compared to the republican sponsored bill?

[billvon 3,120]

Cut it out Ron, PK. Discuss the issues, don't discuss how ignorant, lawyerlike etc each other is.

[kallend 2,150]

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Cut it out Ron, PK. Discuss the issues, don't discuss how ignorant, lawyerlike etc each other is.

Is it now official that saying someone is "like a lawyer" is a personal attack?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[gemini 0]

I have heard a few people say "That's just like a lawyer!" so maybe it is becoming an insult. Wouldn't really call it an attack unless it was something like "Jim, you're worse than a lawyer!"

Blue skies,

Jim

[billvon 3,120]

>Is it now official that saying someone is "like a lawyer" is a personal attack?

Depends on how it's used. There is no list of banned words that you can or can't use. When the conversation devolves to "you're just like a laywer, always covering your ass" it's getting to be a personal attack. As a simple test, consider if you would say any given taunt to another skydiver at the DZ. If you wouldn't (or even if you would but then would duck) it might be a good idea not to post it here.

[Guest]

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There will be no draft. It's a scare tactic Kerry is using because he is desperate for votes.

The hysterical thing is the democrats are the ones in congress who are wanting one...not the republicans.

Funny thing is, it was a Democrat (Ernest Hollings, D-SC who introduced draft legislation.

mh

[tunaplanet 0]

Charles Rangel and Ernest Hollings are the ones proposing it via bills HR 163 and S 89. And yes, they're both liberals.

Pssst....I covered this in my first post on this thread

Forty-two

[PhillyKev 0]

Funny thing is, you guys keep ignoring the fact that H.R. 3598, The Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001 was introduced by Republicans Smith of Michigan and Weldon of Pennsylvania on December 28, 2001 and later referred to the House Committee on Armed Services and the Subcommittee on Military Personnel. Rep Roscoe Bartlett (R) is a co-sponsor.

So, saying that democrats want it and not republicans is wrong.

Also there is H.CON.RES.368, introduced on March 20, 2002 by Rep. Ron Paul (R) and co-sponsored by Rep John Conyers, Jr. (D), Rep John J. Duncan, J (R), Jr. , Rep Cynthia McKinney (D), Rep George Miller (D), Rep Patsy Mink (D), and Rep Pete Fornay Stark (D). This bill is co-sponsored by both parties and is against a draft.

One more time for those who missed this a couple posts up. The draft is not a partisan issue. It is an individual candidate issue. There are republicans and democrats both supporting and opposing a draft.

[free_man 0]

http://www.draftedintoslavery.com/[url]

“…because I hope you know this, I think you do…all governments are lying cocksuckers.”
Bill Hicks, Relentless