ltdiver 3 #26 September 26, 2004 QuoteMaybe we should call them "Not Quite Legals" or some such? James Our lovely congressman of CA, Joe Baca, has already coined a term to hide the true identity of illegal aliens. He calls them 'Undocumented Workers'. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #27 September 26, 2004 Pardon me. I misread your post.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #28 September 26, 2004 I don't think they are... but you don't see too many of the unskilled-unemployed standing in line to get them... they would rather stand in line for the handout at the wellfare office. Edit to add... Legal aliens are willing to take on this kind of work... you just don't see a lot of citizens... many of these jobs pay well above minimum wage JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #29 September 26, 2004 QuoteI don't think they are... but you don't see too many of the unskilled-unemployed standing in line to get them... they would rather stand in line for the handout at the wellfare office. J You're right. And it bugs the hell outta me to see this. In California we put through new regulation that allows just one year (perhaps it's 2) for welfare, then they HAVE to go through job (re)training and get a job. CA will help them do this and if they refuse....they LOSE their benefits. There was ALOT of rebellion when this new law went into effect a few years ago (I have a good friend who works for Riverside County and is the head of this job retraining program). However, it's in place and they have to deal with it. I should check in and see how well it's going now.... ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #30 September 26, 2004 QuoteI don't think they are... but you don't see too many of the unskilled-unemployed standing in line to get them... they would rather stand in line for the handout at the wellfare office. Edit to add... Legal aliens are willing to take on this kind of work... you just don't see a lot of citizens... many of these jobs pay well above minimum wage J It's all about supply and demand. As long as there is a supply of "undocumented workers" and employers are willing to hire them, the wages will be low. If the supply of undocumented workers dries up the wages will have to rise until the jobs become attractive to Americans. As menial as these jobs may be, they have to be done. The supply of illegals will never dry up as long as employers receive nothing more than a slap on the wrist for employing them. Serious punishment for employers will not happen under a Republican administration.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #31 September 26, 2004 QuoteIt's all about supply and demand. As long as there is a supply of "undocumented workers" and employers are willing to hire them, the wages will be low. De-facto lack of minimum wage requirement. Just as an aside though, many of the landscaping and construction jobs obtained by illegals pay well above current US minimum wages. QuoteIf the supply of undocumented workers dries up the wages will have to rise until the jobs become attractive to Americans. As menial as these jobs may be, they have to be done. Or we could just reduce or eliminate minimum wage altogether and let the market dictate pay. How about making people on state dole take the jobs? I bet there would be a supply of domestic workers willing to do the work, but employers won't hire them since they're slightly more risky as far as reporting wages and minimum wage laws are concerned. QuoteThe supply of illegals will never dry up as long as employers receive nothing more than a slap on the wrist for employing them. Serious punishment for employers will not happen under a Republican administration. I agree, and it won't happen under a democrat... or anyone who wants to win state with large immigrant populations. In general, it just seems that the republicans want to ignore the issue and the democrats want to give illegals social services and the right to vote. I disagree with both policies.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #32 September 26, 2004 >Just as an aside though, many of the landscaping and construction jobs obtained by illegals pay well above current US minimum wages. Yep, and I worked landscaping for a year with a green card holder, we made well above minimum wage. We worked ourselfs hard every day for 10-12 hour days, but I frequently had friends ask me why was I working myslef so hard because I would get paid the same if I planted 20 trees or 15 trees that day. There is a cultural difference in that most American's seem to want to do as little as possible and get paid as much as they can for it. Legal and illegal immigrents tend to have a much better work ethic and want to work hard as to get a raise where as in my experience the American's expected one just for time put in, not effort put in. I don't have a solution for the issue... but I am open to all different ideas since this is going to be a growing issue.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #33 September 26, 2004 Neither candidate has an acceptable solution. There is a demand for cheap labor in the US and the undocumented workers fill that demand. However, I also think that illegal immigrants working in the US whilst there are US citizens unable to find work is a travesty of justice. Some put forth the meretricious argument that illegal immigrants will do work that American citizens won't do. It's supposedly beneath them. To these folks I say 'deja moo - I've heard that sort of bull before'. When push comes to shove and you have to feed yourself and your family, you are going to take whatever sort of job that you can get. A friend of mine has the following idea with regards to illegals: have an encampment (a secure one) at the border. All illegals caught will be put to work building a forty feet wide, forty feet deep trench along the border. Once it's complete - many many years from now - all the workers get to watch us landmine it. Then we ship'em back to Mexico. I think that a quite nifty idea, but one that would never survive political scrutiny. No good immediate solution to the problem. Random thoughts from me. Hurricanes suck ass. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #34 September 27, 2004 QuoteI agree, and it won't happen under a democrat... or anyone who wants to win state with large immigrant populations. In general, it just seems that the republicans want to ignore the issue and the democrats want to give illegals social services and the right to vote. I disagree with both policies. Trent It's interesting to listen to the legal immigrant population here. They are angry about the illegals who are coming over the border and taking their jobs. They hate that they themselves went through all the paperwork and time to receive legal status, and now there are illegals circumventing the system and flooding the work place. It was very interesting to watch the large "Mexican" population on the street corners of Perris on my way to the DZ on a weekend morning. They were waiting to be chosen by passers by to work that day. When the border patrol started doing sweeps a few months ago, those street corners were -vacant-! They had all run away, scared of being deported. Now, if they were legal, that wouldn't have happened. Interesting.... ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
