John Kerry's AK-47

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Personally, I don't like either candidate. I just don't hate Kerry as much as I hate Bush.


Angela.

Maybe you might hate him every bit as much if the media let you know just how much lying he has done. All you need is one example (relevant to this thread): the lies he has told about what the "assault weapons ban" did and did not do. He has helped perpetuate the myth that they are any more lethal or dangerous, or fire any faster, than many non-banned weapons. Indeed, he perpetuates the myth that they are more dangerous to police than hunting rifles are, and that they fire in full-auto mode, when they are not and they do not.

I cannot forgive that kind of lying.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[PhillyKev 0]

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but for damn sure I demand that anyone who advocates a policy to govern the rest of us live by it himself.

And I would fully expect him to comply with any laws. There currently aren't any that require what you are asking. He's advocating that some get passed, I don't agree with that. But if they were passed, I don't doubt that he would comply with them.

[Jimbo 0]

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He's advocating that some get passed, I don't agree with that. But if they were passed, I don't doubt that he would comply with them.

Wouldn't his stance hold more weight if he complied with his proposed law? Because right now it stinks of arrogance.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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but for damn sure I demand that anyone who advocates a policy to govern the rest of us live by it himself.

And I would fully expect him to comply with any laws. There currently aren't any that require what you are asking. He's advocating that some get passed, I don't agree with that. But if they were passed, I don't doubt that he would comply with them.

If someone was proposing alcohol prohibition but continued drinking regularly right up until his own legislation was passed and then he stopped, I'd think he was a hypocritical asshole. Why, if you believe people shouldn't be legally allowed to drink alcohol, would you yourself not stop drinking until drinking became illegal? Either you believe in the spirit of the law or you do not.

If the law is good enough to pass, the idea behind it should have to be good enough that you believe in adhering to it law- or no-law.

Kerry is not that big of a man, apparently.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[PhillyKev 0]

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Wouldn't his stance hold more weight if he complied with his proposed law?

How exactly do you comply with a proposed law? Is he supposed to create his own paperwork and hire his own ATF agents so that he can comply with hypothetical laws? Please re-read that and tell me it doesn't sound ridiculous.

Call the ATF and tell them that you want to register a gun that's not one that you are required to register and let me know how that works out.

[tunaplanet 0]

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And I would fully expect him to comply with any laws.

Guess that doesn't include war crimes.

Forty-two

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Wouldn't his stance hold more weight if he complied with his proposed law?

How exactly do you comply with a proposed law? Is he supposed to create his own paperwork and hire his own ATF agents so that he can comply with hypothetical laws? Please re-read that and tell me it doesn't sound ridiculous.

Call the ATF and tell them that you want to register a gun that's not one that you are required to register and let me know how that works out.

Kev, you cannot be this ignorant -- I am sure that you are playing devil's advocate, because theres' no way that you could be able to use a computer and not understand that we mean, "Before you go advocating that everyone else should rid themselves of these evil 'assault weapons,' rid yourself of your own first, to demonstrate your conviction."

What are you failing to grasp about that?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Wouldn't his stance hold more weight if he complied with his proposed law?

How exactly do you comply with a proposed law? Is he supposed to create his own paperwork and hire his own ATF agents so that he can comply with hypothetical laws? Please re-read that and tell me it doesn't sound ridiculous.

Call the ATF and tell them that you want to register a gun that's not one that you are required to register and let me know how that works out.

Um, Kev... Kerry wants "assault weapons" BANNED, not "registered."

Could you try to stay with us, please?

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[PhillyKev 0]

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"Before you go advocating that everyone else should rid themselves of these evil 'assault weapons,' rid yourself of your own first, to demonstrate your conviction."

What are you failing to grasp about that?

What you're failing to grasp is that he has a legitimate belief that disagrees with yours so you attack him. I think he's wrong, but he probably believes that by restricting specific weapons they would be kept out of the hands of criminals. That's what most proponents of gun control believe. They don't secretly have a desire to rid law abiding citizens of guns. They think that it is ok to impose their belief that they are unnecessary and that if they are restricted to everyone that would include criminals. They don't have a problem with law abiding citizens owning guns but think the only way to keep them from criminals is to ban them from everyone.

It's called a policy of prevention. Kerry has a gun, I'm sure he's obtained it legally. Therefore, his posession of this gun has nothing to do with the chance of a criminal obtaining one in the future. Therefore, his personal weapon is not a threat. There's no conflict for him to believe that individual gun owners can be responsible while also believing that banning future sales would reduce crime.

Again, I don't agree with him, but I don't see a conflict.

[headoverheels 333]

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And I would fully expect him to comply with any laws.

Guess that doesn't include war crimes.

Ya mean like the ones Bush is committing?

[tunaplanet 0]

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Ya mean like the ones Bush is committing?

What war crimes would that be?

Forty-two

[jdhill 0]

I guess my question is, if he were so disgusted with the war in Vietnam, why would he bring home a rifle to remember it by? Also, how did he bring it back? It is generally against military regulations to bring home weapons as souvenirs...

Just to be fair, it could be an SKS, instead of an AK... it would still be fairly hypocritical if he has either...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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What you're failing to grasp is that he has a legitimate belief that disagrees with yours so you attack him. I think he's wrong, but he probably believes that by restricting specific weapons they would be kept out of the hands of criminals. That's what most proponents of gun control believe.

So when someone holds a nonsensical belief that is naive, unrealistic, and does not even pass the most basic logical "smell test," we still have to honor that "belief" as though it is just as legitimate as anything that does make rational sense? I don't think so. Some opinions and "beliefs" just are laughable on their face, and the belief that the public is made safer by a ban that is childishly simple to circumvent and doesn't even, in fact, "ban" anything is certainly in that category.

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They don't secretly have a desire to rid law abiding citizens of guns.

You're right. They're not secret about it at all:

"The need for a ban on handguns cannot be overstated. Unlike rifles and shotguns, handguns are easily concealable. Consequently, they are the weapons of choice in most murders, accounting for the deaths of 25,000 Americans in 1991. "
-Major Owens, Rep. NY, Introduction of the Public Health and Safety Act of 1993, Extension of Remarks - September 23, 1993

(and I thought that "assault weapons" were the "weapon of choice" in murders!)

"Mr. President, what is going on in this country? Does going to school mean exposure to handguns and to death? As you know, my position is we should ban all handguns, get rid of them, no manufacture, no sale, no importation, no transportation, no possession of a handgun . There are 66 million handguns in the United States of America today, with 2 million being added every year.
-Senator John H. Chafee, Rhode Island, June 11, 1992

(He must not have put together the fact that if 66,000,000 guns are around, and 2,000,000 more are added each year with no appreciable increase in gun violence -- indeed, with continuing DECREASES -- that maybe guns are not the problem he makes them out to seem like.)

"Mr. speaker, we must take swift and strong action if we are to rescue the next generation from the rising of tide armed violence. That is why today I am introducing the Handgun Control Act of 1992. This legislation would outlaw the possession, importation, transfer or manufacture of a handgun ..."
-Rep. Stephen J. Solarz, New York, August 12, 1992

"The only way to discourage the gun culture is to remove the guns from the hands and shoulders of people who are not in the law enforcement business."
-New York Times, September 24, 1975

"There is no reason for anyone in this country, for anyone except a police officer or a military person, to buy, to own, to have, to use, a handgun. The only way to control handgun use in this country is to prohibit the guns. And the only way to do that is to change the Constitution."
-Michael Gartner, former NBC News President, USA Today, January 16, 1992
(WOW! An admission that the Second Amendment DOES mean you can't ban guns!)

"The goal is an ultimate ban on all guns, but we also have to take step at a time and go for limited access first."
- Joyner Sims, Florida State Health Dept., Deputy Commissioner, Chicago Tribune, November 7, 1993
(Wow, that one's pretty brazen, Kev.)

"As you probably know by now, Time's editors, in the April 13 issue, took a strong position in support of an outright ban on handguns for private use."
-Time Magazine, Letter to NRA, April 24, 1981

"My own view on gun control is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns, would be banned."
-Deborah Prothrow-Stith, Dean of the Harvard School of Public Health

"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."
-U.S. Sen. Joseph Biden Associated Press 11/18/93

""If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,"I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
-U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95

""The American people must be willing to give up a degree of personal privacy in exchange for safety and security."
-Louis Freeh Director of the FBI, 1993
(Weren't we warned EXPLICITLY and SPECIFICALLY against exactly this attitude?!)

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They think that it is ok to impose their belief that they are unnecessary and that if they are restricted to everyone that would include criminals. They don't have a problem with law abiding citizens owning guns but think the only way to keep them from criminals is to ban them from everyone.

And it is unfair to belittle the stupidity and irrationality of this "belief" simply because it is a "belief" and they "mean well"? There ARE countries where gun ownership is OUTRIGHT banned, and they still have guns -- owned by all the wrong people. And they still have murder by other means, too, notably hacking-to-death-by-machete.

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It's called a policy of prevention. Kerry has a gun, I'm sure he's obtained it legally. Therefore, his posession of this gun has nothing to do with the chance of a criminal obtaining one in the future. Therefore, his personal weapon is not a threat.

So then what of the argument that every gun owned by a private citizen is one that may some day enter the illegal market by being stolen? That IS an argument against gun ownership that gun-banners use.

And do you mean that if we made a ban on further gun sales, they'd leave all currently owned guns alone?

Unless you are willing to assert that all the quotes I just gathered and presented are false, or that all the quoted people were misrepresenting their true feelings on guns and gun control, I don't see how you can argue that prominent anti-gun people are not indeed out to (not-so-secretly) BAN GUNS OUTRIGHT.

-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[TomAiello 26]

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Full-auto "NFA" firearms came under regulation with the National Firearms Act of 1934. Nothing used in WWII could possibly have been grandfathered in, since WWII was begun and ended well after 1934.

A weapon manufactured before 1934 could still have been used in WWII.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Zenister 0]

indeed the BAR is a very old, very reliable weapon with a history spanning WWI,II and Korea...

its unlikely it was manufactured before 1934, but its possible....

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Full-auto "NFA" firearms came under regulation with the National Firearms Act of 1934. Nothing used in WWII could possibly have been grandfathered in, since WWII was begun and ended well after 1934.

A weapon manufactured before 1934 could still have been used in WWII.

I am not aware of whether the NFA of 1934 provides for grandfathering of previously manufactured firearms the way the 1994 "ban" did. If I got a hold of a 1932 machine gun, are you saying I might be able to own it without a class III license or paying the NFA tax to the BATF? I'm skeptical of that.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[PeteH 0]

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"My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don't own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle."

Source: Free Lance-Star

John Kerry owns an AK-47 assault rifle!

I thought at least you'd have your gun facts right.

According to his testimony, we can't say John Kerry has an AK-47.
What he does have is (most likely) Type 56, a Chinese made Kalashnikov copy.

http://www.vietnam-war.info/weapons/chicom_type56_rifle.php

[JohnRich 4]

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is there a grandfather clause for fully automatic weapons manufactered back then?

one of my friends owns a WW2 BAR that is fully automatic, but i didn't think it was illegal since it was grandfathered in whenever they made fully-auto illegal

The law requiring that machineguns and their owners be registered was passed in 1934.

There have been ocassional amnesty periods, where the BATF has allowed such machineguns to be registered, without prosecution. There is no grandfathering that I know of.

The problem, like your granddad, is that WWII vets are passing these firearms on to their heirs, who end up being arrested and prosecuted for possession of an illegal machinegun, because granddad never registered it. The alternative is to turn it in for destruction when granddad dies.

Since the passage of this law occurred prior to WWII, I question the legality of that full-auto BAR. If your friend doesn't have it, and himself, registered with the BATF, then he could be facing 10 years in prison if caught with it.

Criminal intent doesn't matter. Only the mere possession of it. That's the law, as stupid as it is.

[JohnRich 4]

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I think that the BATF should investigate. If it is a full-auto rifle, and isn't registered, then John Kerry is facing 10-years in prison for possession of that bring-back weapon.

First, where does it say it's full auto OR that he brought it back or that it's not registered? Or do you think that the BATF should investigate everyone who has a military style rifle?

Kerry served in 'Nam. Now he's bragging about owning a ChiCom souvenir AK-47 rifle. Thus, it is possible that this is a Vietnam war era AK-47, a war bring-back, and a full-auto weapon.

No, it didn't say that explicitly in the story, but it's a logical question from the known facts. Thus, the BATF has a duty to investigate to find out if the firearm in question is legally owned.

If it's an after-market semi-auto, then he has nothing to worry about.

[JohnRich 4]

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I guess my question is, if he were so disgusted with the war in Vietnam, why would he bring home a rifle to remember it by? Also, how did he bring it back? It is generally against military regulations to bring home weapons as souvenirs...

Excellent questions.

He spent his time after the war denouncing it. And now he seems to relish the memory of it, with his souvenir AK-47 rifle, his talk of his war exploits, talking about deer hunting preferring to belly-crawl through the woods sneaking up on his prey, and so on. The guy is full of bullshit macho talk from Vietnam. And yet, much of it is highly questionable.

[PhillyKev 0]

You guys must have springs in your shoes with the way you jump to conclusions.

[JohnRich 4]

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A weapon manufactured before 1934 could still have been used in WWII.

Indeed - the BAR was adopted for service in 1918.

However, civilian ownership of machineguns prior to passage of the NFA law in 1934, was not grandfathered, to my knowledge. As of 1934, anyone owning a machinegun was supposed to register it. And it's been that way every since.

[JohnRich 4]

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I thought at least you'd have your gun facts right.

According to his testimony, we can't say John Kerry has an AK-47.
What he does have is (most likely) Type 56, a Chinese made Kalashnikov copy.

Okay, so maybe it's a "copy" of an AK-47.

If you want to take the position that the only true AK's are those actually manufactured in Russia...

But copies are made in dozens of countries around the world, all of which look and operate identically. I would say that those are still AK's.

This particular nomenclature issue is merely semantics.

And it doesn't change the argument about whether or not John Kerry owns a machinegun.

[TomAiello 26]

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If you want to take the position that the only true AK's are those actually manufactured in Russia...

Then all those copies shouldn't be banned, as they aren't "real" assault weapons.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mnealtx 0]

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Those are some narrow margins and I don't see the margin of error listed. Plus it's only 3 states. You have to look at all of them.

Ah, yes...the one that shows the electoral votes as:
Aug 16: Kerry 274, Bush 264
Sep 7: Kerry 254, Bush 284

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706