rickjump1 0 #1 September 10, 2004 Who makes the best AK 47's to buy. With an opportunity like this, I just may get one.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 September 10, 2004 Why? They're not a great weapon...well, they were decent, but better weapons are available in the assault rifle catagory.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #3 September 10, 2004 AK-47s are not part of the so-called "assault weapons" ban. They were part of an import ban enacted about 5 years earlier. Any AK variant on the market has been remanufactured with at least 10 US parts (Century Arms), but no US company is making them from the ground up, to my knowledge. There is a comany that is manufacturing HK-91s on US soil on Portuguese tooling licensed by HK. The name escapes me, but they also plan on building HK-94s and 93s. IIRC, the price-point is at or around $1k for the 91s. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 7 #4 September 10, 2004 ***Why? They're not a great weapon...well, they were decent, but better weapons are available in the assault rifle catagory. ***For what they are designed for they are a damn fine weapon. Far better than the M-16. I would still prefer a HK or FN-FAL though----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #5 September 10, 2004 If you MUST have an assault rifle, get a Good assault rifle. a BRITISH assault rifle. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crzjp20 0 #6 September 10, 2004 they are not great but they are defenatly reliable.-------------------------------------------------- Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #7 September 10, 2004 QuoteWhy? They're not a great weapon...well, they were decent, but better weapons are available in the assault rifle catagory. I have been on the receiving end of both the AK47 and the RPD light machine gun and always thought about owning the AK47. Just a thought. To some of us, the AK47 was very decent. It sure would shoot a lot without problems.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #8 September 10, 2004 At least it looks like it has a decent cartridge. I'd be very interested in the terminal ballistics of that cartridge. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #9 September 10, 2004 QuoteIf you MUST have an assault rifle, get a Good assault rifle. a BRITISH assault rifle. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm Mike. Nice.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #10 September 10, 2004 Having been on the recieving end as well, at about 30 ft., I am just happy they are about as accurate as a slingshot. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #11 September 10, 2004 "I would still prefer a HK or FN-FAL though" Hmmm... The FN, like the M-14 was endowed with a great deal more power than accuracy. Having put rather a lot of rounds through an FN (OK, an SLR), I can safely say that it's a good weapon if your target is standing behind a house. It's an even better weapon if your target IS a house! The British Army had the right idea when they adopted the (license-built) FN - they removed the full-auto option. That made the weapon effectively uncontrollable. The US Army had a similar idea about the controllability of their own full power assault rifle (M-14), they withdrew it from service and replaced it with the M-16 and it's "designed to wound" ammunition. From a purely "tool for the job" point of view I believe that the AKM /AKMS was the best commonly available assault rifle, and probably still is. It's simple, reliable, low maintenance. The original Russian ones were actually of decent quality and accuracy. It fires a killing round out to 200m with a lot more accuracy than most of the folk who're using it. Incidentally, it's still in production in Russia as the AK103. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #12 September 10, 2004 I bought a WASR-10 (Romanian AK-47) this summer, I love it! Don't know why you guys say it's inaccurate, I can hit a milk jug at 100 yards with mine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #13 September 10, 2004 "I'd be very interested in the terminal ballistics of that cartridge" I think there's a comparison table at the bottom of the link. Lower muzzle velocity than 5.56, but things levelled out by about 300m by which time the 5.56 is seriously slowing down. Bullet weight was over 2x that of 5.56 and bullet energy was more than double 5.56 at range. The .280 (7mm) roundly outperformed the 7.62x39 (Russian) round and was in turn roundly outperformed by the 7.62 NATO round... But you can have too much of a good thing. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 September 10, 2004 Quote I have been on the receiving end of both the AK47 and the RPD light machine gun and always thought about owning the AK47. Just a thought. To some of us, the AK47 was very decent. It sure would shoot a lot without problems. dead reckoning vertical Good answer, much better then I could have answered that's for damend sure. Me? I'm a big fan of HK's rifles, that and the M-14.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #15 September 10, 2004 QuoteMe? I'm a big fan of HK's rifles, that and the M-14. Anybody who does not like HK's rifles... does not like rifles. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #16 September 10, 2004 QuoteQuoteMe? I'm a big fan of HK's rifles, that and the M-14. Anybody who does not like HK's rifles... does not like rifles. I like H&K. Let's face it, anyone who could rework the L-85 and improve it to the point where it's merely crap and useless must be superb gunsmiths! I just don't think that full power cartridges and assault rifles mix. Like I said earlier, the SLR (FN-FAL) was a good rifle if your target was hiding behind a house or a brick wall... It was a great rifle if your target was a house! http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Assault_rifle#EM-2 "In the immediate post-war era the British Army, like many other forces, started research into their own versions of the StG44. The army had planned to replace their .303" rimmed cartridge before WWI but were forced to keep it due to time and money constraints for another 30 years. With these constraints removed they developed a new .280" (7mm) intermediate-power round, and set about developing a new rifle to fire it. At the same time Fabrique Nationale expressed considerable interest in the round, and started development of their own rifles based on it. The Canadian army also expressed interest in the new round, both to maintain commonality with the British, as well as to modernize their forces. The Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield started working on two generally similar designs known as the Experimental Model 1 and 2. Both were bullpup style weapons with the magazine and chamber placed behind the trigger and grips, leading to a shorter overall design (by about 20%), used 20 round magazines with "stripper" reloads, included simple conical optical sights for fast shooting, and had carrying handles built into the top. They could fire semi-automatic or fully automatic bursts, and the .280 round was accurate to about 800 yards. The two differed primarily in details, but the EM-2 was eventually selected as the better design (though some say mostly due to it looking less space age), and entered limited service in 1951 as Rifle, Automatic, Caliber .280, Number 9 Mark 1. It was at this point that the US put forth its own designs for NATO standardization, using the .308" (7.62mm) round in their M-14 rifle. Matters came to a head in 1951 in a shoot-off, with the US claiming the British round was underpowered, and the British claiming the US round was too powerful to be used in a full-auto mode. A series of lengthy debates followed, which were finally settled in an unlikely fashion when Canada stated they would use the British .280 round, but only if the US did as well. It was clear this would never happen. Winston Churchill felt a NATO standard was more important than any qualities of the gun itself. The EM-2 could not be easily adapted to the .308 round, so instead the British were forced to adopt a licensed version of the FN FAL from Fabrique Nationale, itself an adaptation of their own .280 rifle design re-chambered for the .308. It soon became clear to the US that the British had been correct all along, and the M-14 proved incapable of being fired in fully-automatic mode due to recoil. This meant the US had spent a lot of money changing from one semi-auto system, the Garand, to another, the M-14. Other forces found themselves with the same problem, leaving NATO with semi-auto weapons facing the true assault rifles, notably the famed AK-47, being built by the Soviets and deployed world-wide. Into the story comes Eugene Stoner and the CONARC project to develop a new light-weight weapon for US use. His design combined the EM-2's carrying handle, ejector port cover and hinged design, added a gas-operated firing mechanism from a Swedish rifle, and used an inline stock for better control in automatic (as opposed to most designs where the stock is bent down from the barrel to raise the sights up to eye level -- in the M-16 and EM-2 the sights were mounted on the carrying handle instead). The result was the AR-15 firing a .223" (5.56mm) round, which handily beat the other designs tested by CONARC. After special forces used it in Viet Nam and worked out some early deficiencies, the new M-16 rifle became the standard US weapon." ANd the rest, as they say, is history... No. Wait a minute... That stuff was history! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #17 September 10, 2004 QuoteIf you MUST have an assault rifle, get a Good assault rifle. a BRITISH assault rifle. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as59-e.htm Mike. You realise the rifle you linked to was never put into service? That's the EM2 designed in the 50's as a replacement to our Rifle No.4 (used to own one - now those are nice). It never got adopted because we wanted to go super small with the ammo (.28) and NATO wanted to keep the 7.62mm. So we went with the L1A1 (FN FAL). We later resurrected the idea with the L85A1 which is almost identical but made with modern components and in the NATO 5.56mm Were you trying to link to the SA80? (L85A1) or did you mean the EM2? The EM2 was waaaay ahead of it's time and would have been a great weapon at that point in history. I think today though we ought to be looking at something a bit higher calibre. (yes - H&K are nice... mmm I'd love a little MP5A5 ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #18 September 10, 2004 Doh... NOW I read your last post [slaps forehead] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #19 September 10, 2004 AK47s are one of the most inaccurate assault rifles in the world. They're garbage. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #20 September 10, 2004 They're perfect for the role they were designed to fill. Possibly the greatest example of a product that excelled in meeting its design requirements. But yeah, by other standards they suck... but then those standards weren’t their primary design brief. In this sense "Garbage" is a very subjective word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #21 September 10, 2004 "Who makes the best AK 47's to buy. With an opportunity like this, I just may get one." There should be plenty to choose from, for every 60 people on the planet there is an AK 47 already produced.......-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #22 September 10, 2004 http://www.vulcanarmament.com/index.html These folks make, AK, Galil, and HK (94 series) variants domestically... JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #23 September 10, 2004 Quote"Who makes the best AK 47's to buy. With an opportunity like this, I just may get one." There should be plenty to choose from, for every 60 people on the planet there is an AK 47 already produced....... Here you go NacMac... http://www.ak-103.com/rifles.html Yours for a mere £500... Errr... Plus shipping!! Availability of the Ak is very limited - so far they've barely made enough to arm the UK population, but the sand-kickers and Texans keep jumping in front of us!! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #24 September 10, 2004 Your link is nothing to do with the AK47. The AK47 in it's many variants (and by that I only mean 47's and their variants; not later models such as the 74 or 101-105 - which you linked to) is the most numerous weapon ever produced. Estimates of total number of units produced vary from 55 million to 100 million - easily enough to arm every man, woman, child and pensioner in the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #25 September 10, 2004 QuoteAK47s are one of the most inaccurate assault rifles in the world. They're garbage. If this discussion is to be of merit lets compare apples to apples here. Comparing a AK 47 to a M-14 is an apples to oranges comparrison. I have fired and have had people fire AK 47s at me and I can say that yes, some of them are garbage, but that doesn't make all of them garbage. This weapon was designed with a specific purpose, I won't give a history class, and it fills it very well even to this day. It was designed to be easy to use, maintain and carry and still inflict severe wounds at assault ranges. It is one of the most widely used and copied designs in the world.Garbage? I don't think so. You have to know the right tool to use for the job at hand for it to work effectively."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
