Halliburton and Iraq

[PhillyKev 0]

So, I'm curious. Since so many were defending the no bid contract being gifted to Halliburton claiming that no other companies were suited to the task, how do you explain that the pentagon is now going to bid the contract out? They've found gross accounting errors and inability to show proof of work that they billed for, so it's NOW going to be opened for competetive bidding. Who do you suppose they expect to bid on it, if as many of you claimed, there are no other companies in existence that can cook meals, do laundry and build porta potties than Halliburton?

[JohnRich 4]

What an original topic idea! No one has ever thought to start such a thread before. Congratulations on coming up with something new.

[meltdown 0]

I'm sure they will only bid it out to other evil, capitalistic, oppressive companies run by white males that have bought their way into the good graces of the Bush/Cheney cabal. Between all of 'em surely they can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, wash a shirt and stick a bucket in the ground.

[TomAiello 26]

Come on, John. _Every_ thread in this forum is somewhere between 50 and 100% re-hash of the same old discussion.

If you can post repeated discussions about gun control, in endless variations, Kev can post his own endless variations as well.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[PhillyKev 0]

Well let's see, it's not about guns, so wasn't really expecting your input.

But considering this announcement was made YESTERDAY, it seems like it might be a little new.

So how about answering the question? What company could possible do the job if Halliburton was the only one qualified? Seems to me there are only a couple answers to that question:

- There are no other companies, so the pentagon is wasting everyone's time and even more money by going through the bidding process.

or

- There are other companies that could do the job, and the fact that the bidding process was bypassed to hand the contract to Halliburton seems a bit suspicious.

[turtlespeed 226]

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- There are no other companies, so the pentagon is wasting everyone's time and even more money by going through the bidding process.

Some company will step up to the plate and put in some competitive bids.
No, I don't have any names that will bid.

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- There are other companies that could do the job, and the fact that the bidding process was bypassed to hand the contract to Halliburton seems a bit suspicious.

I am sure that when, hypothetically, your gas lines leak, you have time to go get three bids on the repair, but only after you sit down with a panel of advisors and discuss for months the specifications and regulations pertaining to the bidding process. That does NOT include the time it takes to prepare the language of the bidding documents, contractual obligations, leagalities of liquidated damages, etc. etc.

Even with larger contracts, if it needs to be done NOW, it gets done by a company that I know, have dealt with, and know can do the job. Is there a premium for that service - you betcha, and after all the other paperwork is done - it is then bid time.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[akarunway 1]

- There are no other companies, so the pentagon is wasting everyone's time and even more money by going through the bidding process.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,There are plenty companys. That is my nook in the woods. We will see what happens I can't go into detail any further. Sorry

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Even with larger contracts, if it needs to be done NOW, it gets done by a company that I know, have dealt with, and know can do the job. Is there a premium for that service - you betcha, and after all the other paperwork is done - it is then bid time.

So you're saying that for it to be done right in the first place, we would have needed more time but the rush to invade Iraq made that impossible? You're not trying to blame Bush, are you?

[TheAnvil 0]

The copy of the J & A should be available if you are interested. Call your congressman's office and ask them to send you a copy. I would wager that time criticality and experience are the reasons given in the original J & A, but can't say for sure as I haven't read it.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[mnischalke 0]

Question: What politician in Washington doesn't own a piece of Halliburton?

Even Michael Moore's favorite candidate in 2000, Ralph Nader, owns Halliburton stock.

Does it really surprise you that Halliburton got the contract in the first place?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[tunaplanet 0]

If Haliburton did something illegal then we'll see the appropriate charges filed against them. Until then all of this is liberal conspiracy.

Forty-two

[turtlespeed 226]

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Even with larger contracts, if it needs to be done NOW, it gets done by a company that I know, have dealt with, and know can do the job. Is there a premium for that service - you betcha, and after all the other paperwork is done - it is then bid time.

So you're saying that for it to be done right in the first place, we would have needed more time but the rush to invade Iraq made that impossible? You're not trying to blame Bush, are you?

No - what I am saying is that in EVERY major undertaking, there are ALWAYS things that are overlooked. If you must blame someone or something - blame Mother Nature or blame humanity.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[AggieDave 6]

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There are no other companies, so the pentagon is wasting everyone's time and even more money by going through the bidding process.

Here's my take.

At the beginning there was no other company capable of providing all of those services quickly except Halliburton.

Now that there has been time, other companies have seen the potential gold mine and started ramping up to provide support to the contractor fighting types. Now those companies have the ability to do the things that Halliburton has been doing.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

Halliburton was to be rebuilding the Iraq infrastructure, not supporting the "contractor fighting types". Their expertise in oil pipelines surely is important and I did'nt see issuing them contracts for the emergency things to stop enviromental harm, but anything beyond that should have been bidded out.

Building an oil pumping station requires a lot of expertiese, but there are numerous companies that do that same work every where else in the world.

Side note on those "contractor fighting types" most of them are getting contracts upwards of 100k to do the same job that the military is doing. I'd rather see a pay raise for our armed services then hiring merc's.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

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Halliburton was to be rebuilding the Iraq infrastructure, not supporting the "contractor fighting types".

That's not what I was saying...maybe I typed it weird, I wrote it in a hurry.

What I was saying is that other companies may have gotten the experience they needed and built up what they need enough by supporting the contractors.

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Side note on those "contractor fighting types" most of them are getting contracts upwards of 100k to do the same job that the military is doing. I'd rather see a pay raise for our armed services then hiring merc's.

I agree with you to a point. 100k a year is still a lot cheaper then a single MEU/SOC Marine or Army Ranger doing the same level of work with the same level of training. It comes down to the "extras" that come along with being in the military.

I would like to see a pay raise for our armed services, though...I'm sure the government could trim the fat somewhere else to afford this.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

Well, when offers of up to $220k+ a year (for 6 months work) for those that are unable to be recalled back to active duty are being offered (plus the full state department benifit package, free health care if injured, etc), it makes me pissed to know that a lot of the military is making a lot less then they should be.

Hell, where do you think a lot of those merc's got their training? Right beside the same people that are still in the service. I know of 2 former high speed people that have been approached by outside "consulting" firms just because they were former military and did'nt need any additional training.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[nacmacfeegle 0]

<-----------------Post whoring on Halliburton's time.

So I don't know of anyone else that has proven experience in supporting both the US and the UK's armed forces like this.
I also don't know any other company that can bring well control expertise alongside downstream infrastructure support. (remember the Kuwait fires anyone?)
Sure plenty of companies can do elements of this work, but none can provide a single point of contact for all these services. The only way to get round it is to form some kind of alliance or partnership of specialist outfits, and then put together a proposal to manage them. I've worked for such alliances before and the term clusterfuck springs to mind, not good if confusion over responsibilities and in-fighting results in construction project delays, terrible if it results in our military guys not being supported when they need it most.

Y'all know I don't support the war, but my beef is with the diplomats, not the guys who have to work to make up for the diplomatic failures.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[mnealtx 0]

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So, I'm curious. Since so many were defending the no bid contract being gifted to Halliburton claiming that no other companies were suited to the task, how do you explain that the pentagon is now going to bid the contract out? They've found gross accounting errors and inability to show proof of work that they billed for, so it's NOW going to be opened for competetive bidding. Who do you suppose they expect to bid on it, if as many of you claimed, there are no other companies in existence that can cook meals, do laundry and build porta potties than Halliburton?

Just admit it, guys:

A Democratic administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Bosnia/Kosovo = good

A Republican administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Iraq = bad

It's the same old line... if WE ("we" equalling the Democrats) do something it is for the good of mankind or the country - if the Republicans do the exact same thing, it's empire building or giving advantage to their cronies.... and then y'all wnoder why the Republicans don't trust you (politically) any further than we can throw you?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

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So, I'm curious. Since so many were defending the no bid contract being gifted to Halliburton claiming that no other companies were suited to the task, how do you explain that the pentagon is now going to bid the contract out? They've found gross accounting errors and inability to show proof of work that they billed for, so it's NOW going to be opened for competetive bidding. Who do you suppose they expect to bid on it, if as many of you claimed, there are no other companies in existence that can cook meals, do laundry and build porta potties than Halliburton?

Just admit it, guys:

A Democratic administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Bosnia/Kosovo = good

A Republican administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Iraq = bad

It's the same old line... if WE ("we" equalling the Democrats) do something it is for the good of mankind or the country - if the Republicans do the exact same thing, it's empire building or giving advantage to their cronies.... and then y'all wnoder why the Republicans don't trust you (politically) any further than we can throw you?

And lets also not forget that it's bad for Halliburton to be paid a rate that enables them to hire people with the talent to perform the high-risk jobs needed in Iraq, but good to vote for a Presidential Candidate who has promised to raise your taxes if elected.

[PhillyKev 0]

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A Democratic administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Bosnia/Kosovo = good

BZZZTTTTT WRONG.

Halliburton operated in Bosnia under an existing contract that they WON in 1992 While Bush was in office and after bidding against 3 competitors. That lasted until 1997 when Clinton put the LOGCAP contract up for bid again, and Dyncorp won it. However, after a cost analysis, it was determined that the change of contractors in the Balkans would have been more expensive under the new contract since Halliburton was already heavily entrenched there. So that part of their contract was extended until 1999 when the Balkans mission went out for full scale competetive bidding, which Halliburton then won.

[TypicalFish 0]

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If Haliburton did something illegal then we'll see the appropriate charges filed against them.

Yes, because large coprorations who commit any type of malfeasance are so frequently brought to task.

That is a non-partisan remark, BTW. If it was under the Clinton administration, nothing would be done either.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[turtlespeed 226]

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And lets also not forget that it's bad for Halliburton to be paid a rate that enables them to hire people with the talent to perform the high-risk jobs needed in Iraq, but good to vote for a Presidential Candidate who has promised to raise your taxes if elected.

LOL

Can you imagine the outcry of anger if, in answer to their own wish, there was a bidding process? It is simple, if there was a bidding process and Hali won, it would have been fixed. If there were bidding and Haliu didn't win - but the contractor failed miseralbly, the admin should have known better. It is a no win situation. the "Left" will search the ends of the earth to find a discrepancy in every faction of every action of every issue of every individual process that does not agree with their agenda.

It doesn't matter if the choice was given to the Democratic party in and of it's self - if something went wrong, Bush would be blamed.

Partisanship aside:

Anyone with ANY experiance running major projects dealing with overseas supply, construction, manufacturing and project management would understand why Hali was retained. It is the holier than thou shade tree "executives" that are incorrectly assessing the situation and grasping for something that would make the current admin look bad. Smoke screen lobbying - because, simply put, undertakings like this are experianced by only a very elite few of the general public - in ANY country.

I can see how they might look at it as if Hali was hand picked, they were, and for good reason, though, it had little to do with politics and Mostly to do with who can do the job, do it right, and do it now.

There are, contrary to what the media allows to circulate, checks and balances in place. There are whole review commitees that go over the spending that Hali is invoicing for. That is why, now, there are opportunities for a change. Someone in the Hali org. has been over billing, or perhaps it just seems that way to the comittees. Whatever the case, other options need to be explored now.

Hali has done the job it was originally tasked to do. Now it is time to get a number, a fixed cost projection. We have, now, the opportunity to do that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[tunaplanet 0]

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Yes, because large coprorations who commit any type of malfeasance are so frequently brought to task.

So they haven't been found guilty in a court of law but we should consider them so because you say so? Nah. I think we'll just let the judicial system run it's course. Seems to me a better idea than taking a liberal's opinion.

Forty-two

[mnealtx 0]

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A Democratic administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Bosnia/Kosovo = good

BZZZTTTTT WRONG.

Halliburton operated in Bosnia under an existing contract that they WON in 1992 While Bush was in office and after bidding against 3 competitors. That lasted until 1997 when Clinton put the LOGCAP contract up for bid again, and Dyncorp won it. However, after a cost analysis, it was determined that the change of contractors in the Balkans would have been more expensive under the new contract since Halliburton was already heavily entrenched there. So that part of their contract was extended until 1999 when the Balkans mission went out for full scale competetive bidding, which Halliburton then won.

Snipped from here : "But the Clinton Defense Department, rather than switch from Halliburton to Dyncorp, elected to award a separate, sole-source contract to Halliburton/Brown & Root to continue its work in the Balkans. According to a later GAO study, the Army made the choice because 1) Brown & Root had already acquired extensive knowledge of how to work in the area; 2) the company "had demonstrated the ability to support the operation"; and 3) changing contractors would have been costly. The Army's sole-source Bosnia contract with Brown & Root lasted until 1999. At that time, the Clinton Defense Department conducted full-scale competitive bidding for a new contract. The winner was . . . Halliburton/Brown & Root. The company continued its work in Bosnia uninterrupted."

So, again I say:

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"A Democratic administration gives Halliburton/KBR a no-bid contract in Bosnia/Kosovo....

BTW, I have spent 5 of the last 7 years working in either Bosnia or Kosovo... I know whereof I speak...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706