F 9/11 -- Good News, Bad News

[quade 4]

Michael Moore has decided to NOT submit Fahrenheit 911 for Best Documentary at this year's Oscars.

I assume that for most of the right wingers, that's the "good news".

I'll let them read the "bad" news HERE.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ahegeman 0]

Wouldn't showing the movie on TV within 60 days of the election violate the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform act? Sounds like an "issue ad" to me.

I'm not saying that's right, I think McCain-Feingold was a free-speech travesty, but if no one else is allowed to make public statements on TV about the candidates right before the election, why should Michael Moore?

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry

[juanesky 0]

Because, maybe he found out it is not a documentary. It should be submitted as "fiction" instead.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[quade 4]

Well, I think that's certainly something the FEC would look into and the ultra-right-wingers would have a field day with, but then again I don't know -every- nuance and loophole of the bill. However, I don't -think- cable is included, so -maybe- HBO could show it. I don't know for certain.

I'm almost certain that whatever network would consider airing it would look into it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Quote

Because, maybe he found out it is not a documentary. It should be submitted as "fiction" instead.

Actually, it fits the Academy's definition of a documentary to the letter, so that is NOT a part of the issue.

Regardless of how you may feel about it being called a documentary, the Academy is a private organization and they can use whatever definition they come up with.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[juanesky 0]

Well, so there we go again, do you believe is a documentary, or isn't it disingineous to pass it as such? What is your point of view on that?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Well, so there we go again, do you believe is a documentary, or isn't it disingineous to pass it as such? What is your point of view on that?

If you call a dogs tail a
leg, how many legs does the dog have?

[quade 4]

Asked and answered a LOOONG time ago.

It fits the definition used by the entire film industry, so, yes, I pretty much -have- to call it a documentary.

If I asked you for a "stinger and a couple of C-47s" do you have any idea what I'm talking about? If you do, it's because you have applied the industry definitions to an extension cord and a couple of clothes pins.

Call it what you will. The film -is- a documentary.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Michele 1]

Quote

Call it what you will. The film -is- a documentary.

hey, Paul?

Can you link over where the Academy definition is? Surprisingly enough, I've never read the voting guidelines.

Considering my Dad's a voting member and all (and has been for many years), and has sat on the Documentary selection committee (among other committees) in the past, and his opinion is that F-911 isn't a documentary, I'm wondering where he's gone wrong.

And yes, Dad's a Dem.

Edited to add: I believe that MM realizes he's made a campaign film, one that is not a true documentary, and with the fuss over the "Farenheit" name being used and all, I think he's finally shown some common sense and decided to not submit. Of course, it may not be common sense but a simple aberration, but still.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Quote

Quote

Call it what you will. The film -is- a documentary.

hey, Paul?

Can you link over where the Academy definition is? Surprisingly enough, I've never read the voting guidelines.

Considering my Dad's a voting member and all (and has been for many years), and has sat on the Documentary selection committee (among other committees) in the past, and his opinion is that F-911 isn't a documentary, I'm wondering where he's gone wrong.

And yes, Dad's a Dem.

Ciels-
Michele

Michele, what did your dad have to say about Bowling for Columbine??

There are so many reasons that movie didn't qualify as a documentary, but I read something about how according to the Academy's own criteria, it failed because it wasn't shown at enough theaters for the right length or the right period of time or something arcane like that. And they let it into the competition despite the failure.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Michele 1]

I don't believe that Dad and I talked about BfC at any length, as we did F/911. He is less than enamoured of MM, however.

As to BfC not being out for the right length of time in the right number of theatres, I really haven't a clue. I haven't checked it out that thoroughly, and like I said, Dad and I didn't really discuss it.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[skycop 0]

Blah, blah, blah.......
Michael Moore just stirs the pot......all the way to the bank.
I ran into Michael Moore (almost literally) while I was on vacation in Mackinac Island MI in August.
He was leaning against a post on the Main Street, out of breath.
I was going to confront him on several things he claims as facts in F 9/11, but thought the better of it.
That's exactly what people like him want. By confronting him, it lends a small amout of creditability to him (in his mind). So I just shook my head and walked on by him.
He is such a whiney ass that later in the day, another person did yell an unflattering remark about his movie at him from across the street. Mr. Moore responded by getting a cop and claiming harassment.
A classic case of dishing it out, but not being able to take it.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Gravitymaster 0]

Sorry if this is a repost. I'm too tired to do a search.

http://www.fahrenhype911.com/

[juanesky 0]

Yep, just like some posters in here, trolling some posts really hateful towards the US, distorted (great majority), when confronted with facts about their stupid remarks, then cry PERSONAL ATTACK. Still naming MM fiction a documentary is an ill attempt to get your point accross, then they bitch about the SBVFT. Yep forget about MM, Move on.org and the "brown shirt" comments by Gore.....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[quade 4]

Quote

Can you link over where the Academy definition is? Surprisingly enough, I've never read the voting guidelines.

http://www.oscars.org/77academyawards/rules/rule12.html

I see NO reason why he wouldn't think it fits the definition.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Michele 1]

Thanks, Quade.

Quote

I see NO reason why he wouldn't think it fits the definition.

Well, how about this part?

"An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released non-fiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction.

2. A film that is primarily a promotional film, a purely technical instructional film or an essentially unfiltered record of a performance will not be considered eligible for consideration for the Documentary awards."
(Emphasis added and is mine).

See, perhaps MM realized he did nothing more with this film but bash Bush, which is in actuality a promotional film for "Anyone but Bush." I'd be willing to bet that that is what Dad hung his proverbial hat on when we were talking about it.

Furthermore, as MM has stated that this was a campaign film (I know he said it, but can't locate the exact quote) during at least one interview, I'd say he shot himself in the foot there, as well.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Zenister 0]

you know i'm not sure you can really qualify "any one but Bush" as a promotional ideal.... i what way did MM put forth any one OTHER than bush?? presentation of negatives views is not the same as promoting the other side..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[quade 4]

F 911 definately fits the definition of paragraph 1.

F 911 definately does not fit exclusion of paragraph 2. Not in my opinion anyway.

The part you emphasized would relate to say a travel log of how much fun it is to visit Walt Disney World produced by Disney as a sales tool. Something I bet Michael Eisner would LOVE to put in theaters BTW, but I'm guessing would sell as many tickets as "That's Pat".

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Michele 1]

See, what's gotten me is the hiring of Chris LaHane, one of the primary strategists for Clinton/Gore. It's things like that which lead people to understand the campaign aspect of this. If someone is going to gripe about SBVFT having financial backing from people who participated in campaigns in the past, I think this is a valid comparison.

Do I think it's a documentary? No, no more so than "Blair Witch Project" is. Do I think it's a campaign thing? I dunno - I haven't seen it. Do I think it crosses the line in an election year and do I think that it is supportive of the democratic party? Absolutely, with no doubt.

Why didn't I bother to go see it? Because I'd rather read the 9/11 Commission report, and get my information that way.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Michele 1]

Quote

F 911 definately fits the definition of paragraph 1.

F 911 definately does not fit exclusion of paragraph 2. Not in my opinion anyway.

I'm not sure it does fit the definition of para 1, now that you mention it. I mean, the last few words say something to the effect of "emphasis on fact, not on fiction," and by all accounts he didn't stay true to that.

As for 2, I understand your comparison. But if the democratic party were to put out a film on 9/11, do you honestly think it would be much different?

I don't know that I can honestly agree with you on this, Quade...not just pedantic rhetoric, but a fundamental disagreement honestly arrived at.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[billvon 3,120]

>Well, so there we go again, do you believe is a documentary, or isn't
> it disingineous to pass it as such? What is your point of view on that?

It is a documentary, albeit one you disagree with. Documentaries often make points.

[juanesky 0]

And so does fiction. If the guy is to use false newspaper headlines, that immediately takes it off the "documentary" category.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[billvon 3,120]

>I mean, the last few words say something to the effect of "emphasis
>on fact, not on fiction," and by all accounts he didn't stay true to that.

I saw it; he did. He put a tremendous amount of his own opinion in it, but it was based on a real person and a real event. You may draw different conclusions than he did, and question his interpretations (and even how he presented those interpretations) but unless you claim it wasn't about Bush you'd be hard-pressed to claim that it was fictional - despite the huge advantages the GOP garners by making such a claim.

[billvon 3,120]

>If the guy is to use false newspaper headlines, that immediately
>takes it off the "documentary" category.

So a movie about Bush would not be a documentary if it covered him saying "We found them. We found the weapons" because that statement is false?

It's a documentary with a spin you don't like. It is no more fiction that the rebuttal documentary is, which seems to be supported by many right-wingers here. You can't have it both ways.

[juanesky 0]

Listen Bill, I am not questioning MM's subject. I am questioning that a documentary should be presenting all the facts, not like f911 did, and one major issue with the newspaper headlines I may add.

That is like saying that for few months after 9/11 most arabic middle eastern newspaper started circulating rumors as news. Not really what is intended with a documentary. Although I do agree that a political documentary will have bias, but usually it includes the good tha bad and the ugly...just refer to any histroy channel actual documentary and bio's.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon