More mudslinging

[billvon 3,113]

>And yes, I'm a liberal. When people call all liberals liars, stupid, dupes,
>or anything else, they're talking about me.

Me too. I am a registered independent, but I'm about as liberal as they come (using the dictionary definition of liberal.) Heck, I have a greywater pump in my shower, I generate more power than I use, and I install guerilla solar power systems. I don't care what religion, race or sexual orientation my friends are and I don't think any one religion has a monopoly on truth. Doesn't mean I vote for democrats, though. There are poor candidates on both sides of the political spectrum. For every Strom Thurmond there's a Ted Kennedy.

[kallend 2,147]

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So Kerry admitting he committed war crimes doesn't bother you?

Wow.

Take your evidence to the nearest US Attorney and ask him to indict Kerry on War Crimes charges (there's no statute of limitations and you think you have a confession).

Be sure to tell us what his response is.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

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You appear to have a hard time with the concept of "proof".

Either we have proof that Kerry is a war criminal, or we have proof that Kerry is a liar. Which do you prefer?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[wmw999 2,587]

Obviously you didn't read what I said in here. It's just a couple of posts up.

If you did read it, then you should understand. But I'll explain.

At 25 (or whatever), he did what he thought was the best action in wartime. He used the knowledge that he had at the time, and applied his judgement, and took action in a realtime situation.

In retrospect, he thought he did the wrong thing, and considered it (5 or so years later) to be a war crime. I don't know what he would consider it to be now, nearly 40 years later. Those are both opinions.

In another post, a couple earlier, I said

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there are things in my life that I've done and, in looking back, realized that weren't as I thought at the time. Maybe my performance was even less than perfect.
...
Sometimes that was due to my own lack of preparation, sometimes it was due to others' trying to color my actions, and sometimes it was due to the fact that not everything that seemed important at the time of the really was, and not everything that was important seemed to be.

So his later thoughts that actions he took with what he thought was the best information he had at the time were war crimes? Nope, it doesn't speak ill of him. If he thought that the more he blew away the better because that's what you do in war? That would bother me a whole lot more.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tunaplanet 0]

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Either we have proof that Kerry is a war criminal, or we have proof that Kerry is a liar. Which do you prefer?

Another fence question. I bet you $1 he doesn't answer it directly.

Forty-two

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

You appear to have a hard time with the concept of "proof".

Either we have proof that Kerry is a war criminal, or we have proof that Kerry is a liar. Which do you prefer?

-
Jim

Is this like the deficit/unemployment/WMDs/Poverty/uninsured Americans... being proof that Bush is either incompetent or a liar? You'd just claim "bad intel".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,587]

In your world there is no such thing as opinion, is there?

Does that mean if you, tunaplanet, said that liberals were stupid it really meant that they were stupid? No context or nothing -- just a black-and-white answer.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tunaplanet 0]

Question to Kallend - Either we have proof that Kerry is a war criminal, or we have proof that Kerry is a liar. Which do you prefer?


Answer by Kallend - Is this like the deficit/unemployment/WMDs/Poverty/uninsured Americans... being proof that Bush is either incompetent or a liar? You'd just claim "bad intel".



See what I mean? You ask a liberal a specific question about a specific topic and they respond not only without answering the question but by flipping the spotlight around on another issue altogether.

Forty-two

[kallend 2,147]

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Question to Kallend - Either we have proof that Kerry is a war criminal, or we have proof that Kerry is a liar. Which do you prefer?


Answer by Kallend - Is this like the deficit/unemployment/WMDs/Poverty/uninsured Americans... being proof that Bush is either incompetent or a liar? You'd just claim "bad intel".



See what I mean? You ask a liberal a specific question about a specific topic and they respond not only without answering the question but by flipping the spotlight around on another issue altogether.

Do your civic duty.

Take your "evidence" to your local US Attorney and get an indictment.

If you're not prepared to do this, you can't really think it very important.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[juanesky 0]

One thing is past performance, another is actually commiting murders, rapes, etc, that is not a lapse of misjudgements. That is criminal.

So it is OK for him to have commited those things, even though he was an officer, and swore an oath, got trained, ROE guidelinse and UCMJ in place. Now what part is that? Killing civilians at close range with 50 cal.. If I did that I would be ashamed.

Now admitting to all these crimes, under oath, knowing he did wrong as in "criminal" and 30+ yrs later he runs on this very same record that qualifies him as president? That is indeed not much brilliance from him or the ones defending his actions.



And you get all upset if a refer to your terrorists friends as th....now that is irony.....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[tunaplanet 0]

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Do your civic duty.

Take your "evidence" to your local US Attorney and get an indictment.

If you're not prepared to do this, you can't really think it very important.

So what you're trying to say is you won't answer the question. Roger that.

Forty-two

[billvon 3,113]

>So what you're trying to say is you won't answer the question.

Will you answer Wendy's?

[wmw999 2,587]

So is it your contention, too, that many civilians killed in Iraq are also the result of war crimes? Because I'll just bet the same things are happening there sometimes.

You take a lot of young men, add testosterone, bravado, and fear, and you're going to get some things that many aren't proud of in the long run. And some things that people are proud of.

I've seen references to some of the videos of people being shot and bombed in Iraq, and questions about how you know if they're really still combatants. Obviously if you already know the answer there is no questioning. But not everyone is blessed with omniscience.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[juanesky 0]

It is funny that even though in legal proceedings Kerry did confess to crimes, now he is all innocent. I would not be surprised if he got inmunity...from that ordeal

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[tunaplanet 0]

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Will you answer Wendy's?

I actually rarely read her posts. Once in a blue moon I will.

Nothing personel. There's a few posters whose posts I skip over every time.

Forty-two

[wmw999 2,587]

Why don't you read my posts? I know -- another question. Silly me.

There was one here too, where I'm answering a question of yours.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[juanesky 0]

Well Wendy once again you take my words out of context.

If I tell you I commited a crime, raped, and murdered without any regards the TH's over here, in blatant disregard to the laws, ROE's, UCMJ's and TRAINING, the least I would expect is you pointing a finger at me and screaming "murderer, Criminal". Yet since Kerry is your guy, you simply don't.

If you don't understand the process to become an officer in the US Navy, nor in the armed forces where he signed, then I think at best we both are wasting our time in here......

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[billvon 3,113]

>If I tell you I commited a crime, raped, and murdered without any regards
> the TH's over here, in blatant disregard to the laws, ROE's, UCMJ's and
> TRAINING, the least I would expect is you pointing a finger at me and
> screaming "murderer, Criminal". Yet since Kerry is your guy, you simply
> don't.

Suppose you had in detention a guy who (you believed) had information that could save the lives of your fellow soldiers. Might you use force to try to get that information?

[juanesky 0]

As I say, I would go against everything that is taught and ingrained, and even obey an illegal order.

Well, I guess I'll go back say what I did, and wait 30+ years and hope to be president......That sounds about right...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[wmw999 2,587]

No, I simply see his words in a different context from yours. I cannot see them in your context without seeing more around it.

Note, I haven't said that Bush should be charged as a war criminal over Abu Ghraib either.

Do I think Kerry is the most admirable person there is? Nope. Do I think he'll be a less damaging president to our country than GWB? Yup. That's the context right now.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[juanesky 0]

I think not. The context is that someone in the pres race, has commited war crimes, and confessed them. Now he runs for pres. It is ok to do that.

You don't mention the guards and abughraib are currently court martialed

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Frenchy68 0]

Does anyone have a link to a transcript of Kerry's testimony about Viet Nam in front of congress? Please, no link to newspaper articles, but to the actual transcript.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 3,113]

> As I say, I would go against everything that is taught and ingrained, and
>even obey an illegal order.

OK, although that seems to indicate you are more than willing to do what you condemn others for. An interesting (if fairly indefensible) position.

[christelsabine 1]

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If you don't understand the process to become an officer in the US Navy, nor in the armed forces where he signed, then I think at best we both are wasting our time in here......

What, in detail, does it need to become an officer in the US Navy.." ? Would you kindly explain to an alien? Upon your above post, I really do not like to assume.

Just re-read your posts: There is no clear explanation, or did I miss something?

Or am I wasting my time with this question, Mr. J.?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[juanesky 0]

Here it is clicky

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon