Ollie's Column Today

[TheAnvil 0]

Excellent article by Ollie North.

Bring it on, John
Oliver North

August 27, 2004 | Print | Send

"Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry

Dear John,

As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.

I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals as they deserved.

This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either, John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't finished."

Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.

But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having, John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.

When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.

On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed."

And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners."

Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you, John:

Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.

Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973.

Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.

John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.

One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?

Beers to all,

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[kallend 2,146]

Very credible source you have there.

Remind me again how Ollie avoided a prison term for lying to Congress.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

Wasn't it you that said something about if there was no proof . . . ? - He was not Convicted -

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

He was not Convicted -

North was convicted May 4, 1989 of three charges: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents.

[TheAnvil 0]

If he's so full of it surely you should be able to refute something from the column I've posted. I'll look forward to your doing so.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Quote

He was not Convicted -

North was convicted May 4, 1989 of three charges: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents.

I didn't see purgery in there, you aren't fabricating again are you?

My response was to Kallend - He statedthat Ollie lied to Congress. Kallend in another thread stated that it wasn't proven - and using Kallend words - I rebutted his comment.

Surely even you could see that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

If he's so full of it surely you should be able to refute something from the column I've posted. I'll look forward to your doing so.

Why should I refute anything said by someone convicted of obstruction of Congress? He simply has impeached his own credibility.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

No, no, no. It's not that he can refute anything said, he just doesn't like what has been said, so he uses misdirection to change the subject. Kinda like Kerry.



I'll still skydive with you John!

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

I didn't see purgery in there, you aren't fabricating again are you?

Surely even you could see that aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents amounts to lying.

Lie n. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

No, no, no. It's not that he can refute anything said, he just doesn't like what has been said, so he uses misdirection to change the subject. Kinda like Kerry.



I'll still skydive with you John!

It is not necessary to respond to every bogus charge made by a GOP stoolie to divert attention from such things as the deficit, the rise in poverty, the increase in uninsured Americans, and a war entered into under false pretenses.

North is a convicted* liar. His opinions are of no value.

Convicted as in *actually convicted by a court*

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

Purgery was not a charge.
He - according to Kallends definition of proof - cannot be branded a lier, he was not proven to be a lier in court.

Obstruction could be as simple as refusing to answer.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PhillyKev 0]

And destruction of documents could be as simple as taking out the trash.

Christ, you'll even defend Oliver North, amazing!

Oh, and he wasn't convicted of obstruction for refusing to answer questions. It was for forging documents to hide the source of proceeds he received from Iran/Contra. But I guess that's not lying either.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Purgery was not a charge.
He - according to Kallends definition of proof - cannot be branded a lier, he was not proven to be a lier in court.

Obstruction could be as simple as refusing to answer.

When asked by Congress whether he lied to Congress he replied, "Yes I did."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Guest]

I like it. It sums up my feelings about Kerry quite well.

And as usual, other people posting on this thread, unable to refute North's words, instead attack him personally.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Quote

Purgery was not a charge.
He - according to Kallends definition of proof - cannot be branded a lier, he was not proven to be a lier in court.

Obstruction could be as simple as refusing to answer.

When asked by Congress whether he lied to Congress he replied, "Yes I did."

AND according to Kallend - that brings no merit.

Kerry said he commited war crimes - admitted it to that very same group of delegates - some were exactly the same some have changed.

Why is it that Kerry saying that he did has less merit than Ollie saying that he did?

In order for the credibility to be given to one the other has to be recognized as well.

That is just common sense.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Purgery was not a charge.
He - according to Kallends definition of proof - cannot be branded a lier, he was not proven to be a lier in court.

Obstruction could be as simple as refusing to answer.

When asked by Congress whether he lied to Congress he replied, "Yes I did."

AND according to Kallend - that brings no merit.

Kerry said he commited war crimes - admitted it to that very same group of delegates - some were exactly the same some have changed.

Why is it that Kerry saying that he did has less merit than Ollie saying that he did?

In order for the credibility to be given to one the other has to be recognized as well.

That is just common sense.

Was he charged? Was he convicted? Was Kerry?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

Since you declined to answer the last battery of numbered questions that I posed to you - again - I'll ask you these:

1) Do you deny that Kerry said that he commited war crimes?

2) Do you deny that he admitted that he himself being a war criminal?

3) If so, do you deny these events, even though you can see and hear it for yourself?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[TheAnvil 0]

Concur. With regards to Vietnam it is Mr. sKerry's post-service actions of the era that make him out to be such a royal loooooser. His actions since attaining public office just add to that.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[kallend 2,146]

msnbc.msn.com/id/5843033/site/newsweek/

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5772260/site/newsweek/

You are certainly trying to distract attention from Bush's dismal record as president, and you have to go back 30 years and smear war veterans with an article by a convicted liar to do it. Not only is that shameful, it won't work.

Record surplus turned into record deficit.
Poverty up
Bankruptcies at record levels (one filing every 19 seconds)
Ininsured Americans up
Pre-emptive war under false pretenses
Mismanagement of said war
Campaign promises unfulfilled
Violation of Geneva Conventions at Guantanamo
Loss of support of traditional allies
Flip flop on gay marriages
Flip flop on nation building

GWB is a disastrous President.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,146]

Here's something on the subject by someone that has NOT been convicted of lying to Congress, Joshua Muravchik of the American Enterprise Institute:

"After his discharge, Kerry became the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Once, he presented to Congress the accounts by his VVAW comrades of having "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires . . . to human genitals . . . razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan . . . poisoned foodstocks." Later it was shown that many of the stories on which Kerry based this testimony were false, some told by impostors who had stolen the identities of real GIs, but Kerry himself was not implicated in the fraud. And his own over-the-top generalization that such "crimes [were] committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" could be charged up to youthfulness and the fevers of the times."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

If he's so full of it surely you should be able to refute something from the column I've posted. I'll look forward to your doing so.

Why should I refute anything said by someone convicted of obstruction of Congress? He simply has impeached his own credibility.

Wow, thanks

Dam, I don't mean to hijack the thread

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Here's something on the subject by someone that has NOT been convicted of lying to Congress, Joshua Muravchik of the American Enterprise Institute:

"After his discharge, Kerry became the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Once, he presented to Congress the accounts by his VVAW comrades of having "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires . . . to human genitals . . . razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan . . . poisoned foodstocks." Later it was shown that many of the stories on which Kerry based this testimony were false, some told by impostors who had stolen the identities of real GIs, but Kerry himself was not implicated in the fraud. And his own over-the-top generalization that such "crimes [were] committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" could be charged up to youthfulness and the fevers of the times."

OK, then he lied

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[burbleflyer 0]

Quote

Here's something on the subject by someone that has NOT been convicted of lying to Congress, Joshua Muravchik of the American Enterprise Institute:

"After his discharge, Kerry became the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Once, he presented to Congress the accounts by his VVAW comrades of having "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires . . . to human genitals . . . razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan . . . poisoned foodstocks." Later it was shown that many of the stories on which Kerry based this testimony were false, some told by impostors who had stolen the identities of real GIs, but Kerry himself was not implicated in the fraud. And his own over-the-top generalization that such "crimes [were] committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" could be charged up to youthfulness and the fevers of the times."

I cant believe you posted that and not expected someone to laugh at it.

I dont have health insurance. If your such a great liberal, why dont you volunteer to pay for mine?
I honestly will accept.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

Here's something on the subject by someone that has NOT been convicted of lying to Congress, Joshua Muravchik of the American Enterprise Institute:

"After his discharge, Kerry became the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Once, he presented to Congress the accounts by his VVAW comrades of having "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires . . . to human genitals . . . razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan . . . poisoned foodstocks." Later it was shown that many of the stories on which Kerry based this testimony were false, some told by impostors who had stolen the identities of real GIs, but Kerry himself was not implicated in the fraud. And his own over-the-top generalization that such "crimes [were] committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" could be charged up to youthfulness and the fevers of the times."

I cant believe you posted that and not expected someone to laugh at it.

I dont have health insurance. If your such a great liberal, why dont you volunteer to pay for mine?
I honestly will accept.

It's all hearsay. Not one of the people on this board has personal, actual knowledge of what happened.

My source is just as (in fact, more) reliable than Ollie North.

So go laugh at yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Why is it that Kerry saying that he did has less merit than Ollie saying that he did?

DUH, Turtle... Ollie is one of those EVIL REPUBLICANS...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706