Stuff You Didn't Know...

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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He was eligible to rotate out after three wounds - this is fair, and it's the same thing everybody got over there (and it doesn't matter where it came from, btw - almost any injury received in a war zone can qualify, even if it isn't the result of hostile action).

For example, when in the Gulf War (1990-1991), a group of careless troops tasked with disposing of unexpended ordnance inadvertently blew themselves up, they received posthumous Purple Hearts

I don't know if I find this a vindication of Kerry getting Purple Hearts for what some have said were questionable and very minor injuries, or an indictment of the ridiculously low standards for giving out such medals. If you can FUCK UP, COST the military your manpower and all the money that was spent training you, and probably damage other equipment, and then get a medal for it, I think something's wrong. If a person fucks up and LIVES, in the military, don't they scrutinize the appropriateness of his actions and possibly impose sanctions on him? But fuck up so bad that you DIE, and you get a sympathy medal? Does that seem right to you?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[sundevil777 102]

Since it is probably impossible to know which of the guys disposing of the ordinance made a mistake, I think it is OK.

Even if they did know, or if only one person was involved, the medal is really for the family, so I still think it is OK.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[TomAiello 26]

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I don't know if I find this a vindication of Kerry getting Purple Hearts for what some have said were questionable and very minor injuries, or an indictment of the ridiculously low standards for giving out such medals.

Until I get wounded in a war zone, I'm reserving judgment on anyone who has done such a thing.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[kallend 2,148]

Disposing of ordnance is very hazardous. I wouldn't want the job. I don't think your comment was called for. I think it was in rather bad taste.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,116]

>If you can FUCK UP, COST the military your manpower and all the
>money that was spent training you, and probably damage other
> equipment, and then get a medal for it, I think something's wrong.

A lot of people fuck up and die in the military. In some situations, even a minor screwup can kill you. They are generally considered heroes, and with good reason (I think.) They were willing to risk their lives for what they believed in, even if they didn't perform at 100%.

I wouldn't slam dead vets for making the mistake that killed them, but that's just me. People put down vets for all sorts of reasons I suppose, as has been demonstrated all too often here.

[goofyjumper 0]

In reply

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He signed up up for the Naval reserves, not the Navy.

His first "tour" of Vietnam lasted less four months in a deep water vessel. Hardly a "tour of Nam."
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At least he did a tour! Bush was in the National Guard, that is just like the reserves. Just because you join the reserves, doesn't make any less than a soldier,or Sailor in this case. He was called into a war which makes him active duty!

Plus, and I have said it before, Bush was UA during the war. I know that posting facts can be hectic, so I will help you out. Just in case you have not gotten to the facts about Bush yet!

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[goofyjumper 0]

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>If you can FUCK UP, COST the military your manpower and all the
>money that was spent training you, and probably damage other
> equipment, and then get a medal for it, I think something's wrong.

A lot of people fuck up and die in the military. In some situations, even a minor screwup can kill you. They are generally considered heroes, and with good reason (I think.) They were willing to risk their lives for what they believed in, even if they didn't perform at 100%.

I wouldn't slam dead vets for making the mistake that killed them, but that's just me. People put down vets for all sorts of reasons I suppose, as has been demonstrated all too often here.

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I couldn't agree with you more.

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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>If you can FUCK UP, COST the military your manpower and all the
>money that was spent training you, and probably damage other
> equipment, and then get a medal for it, I think something's wrong.

A lot of people fuck up and die in the military. In some situations, even a minor screwup can kill you. They are generally considered heroes, and with good reason (I think.) They were willing to risk their lives for what they believed in, even if they didn't perform at 100%.

I wouldn't slam dead vets for making the mistake that killed them, but that's just me. People put down vets for all sorts of reasons I suppose, as has been demonstrated all too often here.

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I couldn't agree with you more.

I understand the points made by you and others; I agree in part, about not being disrespectful to veterans... The main thrust of my point, though, was not to disrespect vets who do screw up and get themselves killed -- it's that I don't think they necessarily should be lauded with medals for it. Does everyone who gets killed in military service get a medal? I'm not clear on that. If so, then fine, I guess. If not, then there's nothing wrong with being selective in their distribution, or even "choosy."

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Guest]

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Disposing of ordnance is very hazardous. I wouldn't want the job. I don't think your comment was called for. I think it was in rather bad taste.

Shit. Read the book. The other members of the unit petitioned the CO to have the posthumous awards denied because they were so furious at the victims for being such total dumbasses (they were tossing unexploded mortar rounds into the back of a truck).

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Disposing of ordnance is very hazardous. I wouldn't want the job. I don't think your comment was called for. I think it was in rather bad taste.

Shit. Read the book. The other members of the unit petitioned the CO to have the posthumous awards denied because they were so furious at the victims for being such total dumbasses (they were tossing unexploded mortar rounds into the back of a truck).

mh

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See what I mean? You give morons like that medals, you cheapen EVERYONE'S medals. That's a hell of a lot more disrespectful to veterans than deciding to give medals only to worthy veterans is. And this, allegedly, is what was expressed by their fellow veterans!

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Guest]

As I've mentioned before, Bush went through UPT, same as everybody else, meaning that he was at significant risk on every flight, just like everybody else.

I find no fault with Bush for his service record, and I don't fault Kerry for his - please see my remarks in which I speculated upon Kerry's likely reasoning for early separation.

I fault Kerry for the LIES he knowingly told in his "Winter Soldier" testimony, portraying his fellow GIs as WAR CRIMINALS, and for relying on "eyewitness accounts" of so-called "atrocities" from people who HAD NEVER BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

There are some truly clueless people on this forum and elsewhere who just want to pour perfume on shit.

However, there are millions of us out here who are vets and family members of vets who haven't forgotten what the anti-war protestors did to GIs returning from Vietnam.

Here's a great quote about "Stolen Valor" on Amazon.com:
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"I saw a post on here earlier that actually inspired me to write tonight, as the author said that this book was poorly written, and he points to Kerry's "medals" as proof. Well, I have news for that person. What Kerry did with his medals (and you know what -- medals or "ribbons" makes NO DIFFERENCE) is detestable. He tried to have it both ways. When he threw his "ribbons" over the fence during that protest it was symbolic of him giving up what he believed had been earned in an immoral and unethical war (his personal medals). He would've been fine to stop there. But, he did that and then years later proudly displays his medals! Which is it -- is he true to his convictions that the war was wrong and he wants no recognition for particpating in an unjust war, as he believed, or is he now proud of his service in Vietam because today Vietnam is no longer regarded as a negative blight?

I think he's an opportunist who will do and say what he needs when it's convienient for him to do so. The ironic thing about it is that if he never displayed his medals (in his office) and didn't cite his "heroics" in Vietnam, this wouldn't have been an issue -- he would look good for keeping faith with his original beliefs."
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Kerry's birds are finally coming home to roost. He is a maggot who fed on the dead bodies of his fellow GIs for the sake of his political career.

I sincerely hope he chokes on them.

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"Cry 'havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial."

-- Julius Caesar, Act 3 Scene I

mh

Edit to add: Interesting poll on that "Winter Soldier" site as well.

Libs don't have a hammer-lock on the media anymore, and they can't f*in' stand it.

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

They died in a war zone while in uniform and engaged in action against a hostile force.

Yes, they were dummies, but they still got the awards. The CO denied the request.

Edit to add: if they had died in a motor vehicle accident or some other operational mishap, they would not have gotten the awards, but since they were (accidentally) blown up by hostile ordnance (Iraqi mortar rounds) that would otherwise not have been there, they were eligible for posthumous PHs. True story, not anectdote. Read the book.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[rushmc 23]

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Your daily rage against Kerry says more about you than him. I truly feel sorry for your loved ones that have to put up with your misplaced anger. Do you not realize you have become a joke?

Phil

As far as I am concerned your posting shows who is the joke

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Ron 10]

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Dude, we all know you don't like democrats or anyone left of Ronald Regan. Can you please give it a rest?

Why? cause he posts the truth that you are afraid to read?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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People put down vets for all sorts of reasons I suppose, as has been demonstrated all too often here.

Oh, and in front of Congress if you think it will help your political career.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Kennedy 0]

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At least he did a tour! Bush was in the National Guard, that is just like the reserves. Just because you join the reserves, doesn't make any less than a soldier,or Sailor in this case. He was called into a war which makes him active duty!

How can you say "at least he didi a tour," implying that Bush did not, and then say the reseves and the National Guard are the same, when Bush was in the Air NG?

I'm not saying Joining the Reserves is less worthy of respect, I'm just pointing out a lie Kerry likes to tell: that he joined the Navy after school and requested active duty.

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Plus, and I have said it before, Bush was UA during the war. I know that posting facts can be hectic, so I will help you out. Just in case you have not gotten to the facts about Bush yet!

I'm either not familiar with or don't remember UA. What's it mean?

My posting wasn't hectic. It said what I meant. You said you'd help, but I see no facts listed or references noted.

Also, this thread was not meant to be a comparison of Bush and Kerry. It was simply meant to clarify some issues about Kerry (and point out some lies he likes to tell).

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[turtlespeed 226]

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Oh, thank goodness i've been enlightened with this information! Now I can change my mind and go vote for Bush instead!

translation: who cares? lol!
angela.

You would if the tables were reversed and the opposite party had these discrepancies.
Since they do not - you think they are worthless facts. *shrug*

What argument would you make if it were turned?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,148]

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Dude, we all know you don't like democrats or anyone left of Ronald Regan. Can you please give it a rest?

Why? cause he posts the truth that you are afraid to read?

It's fascinating how more and more of these "truths" are being shown, after investigation, to be distortions, outright lies, or out-of-context quotes by Bush front groups.

Just like the tactics they used to attack McCain in 2000 and Max Cleland in 2002.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Dude, we all know you don't like democrats or anyone left of Ronald Regan. Can you please give it a rest?

Why? cause he posts the truth that you are afraid to read?

It's fascinating how more and more of these "truths" are being shown, after investigation, to be distortions, outright lies, or out-of-context quotes by Bush front groups.

The just have a lot of catching up to do to match the Kerry frontgroups. You know, the ones paid for by Hungarian Billionaires who want to use their money to run the United States.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"