Vallerina 2 #51 August 25, 2004 QuoteIt's called reading, and coming to a conclusion based off of history, not the latest political ad..You should try it. Are they using Nagasaki in ads????? Maybe I should watch tv! I'm curious as to how they're doing that! And, they even teach middle schoolers that dropping the second bomb was a mistake. Even our public school systems know better!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #52 August 25, 2004 QuoteAnd, they even teach middle schoolers that dropping the second bomb was a mistake. Even our public school systems know better! Well show me any proof. Until then thanks for playing! Well the public schools are said to be pretty bad. Maybe you should look at the subject NOW instead of relying on something you might have heard in 7th grade?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #53 August 25, 2004 Ron, can you explain why the Nagasaki bomb was right? Because while I can understand the reasoning behind the Hiroshima one, the Nagasaki one always seemed to me to be kind of a "fuck you we'll do it to show you we can and to prove that we're the biggest baddest motherfuckers out there." Which is fine if that's what you want to be. Is that really what we should aspire to? But from what I've read, the overall cost of not doing it would very likely have been far less in terms of human life than the overall cost of doing it. Even if you consider 1000 Japanese to be the equivalent of one American soldier, it probably doesn't come out even. And it's all hindsight anyway. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #54 August 25, 2004 QuoteMaybe you should look at the subject NOW instead of relying on something you might have heard in 7th grade? Well, okay, I also heard it in high school and in college... (Wow...talk about thread drift! Quade, did you think that this would turn into a discussion of WWII? ) Only July 13, Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo wired his ambassador in Moscow: "Unconditional surrender is the only obstacle to peace..." Martin Sherwin, after an exhaustive study of the relevant historical documents, concludes: "having brokent he Japanese code before the ware, America Intelligence was able to - and did - relay this message to the President, but it had no effect whatever on efforts to bring the war to a conclusion." Americans would only accept an unconditional surrender and would not allow the Emperor, a holy figure, to remain in place. I'm so glad I have this book! Otherwise, I would have to argue based completely off of my college courses, and I would have nothing to "back it" with. And, let's just be logical here......if someone dropped a brand new bomb which no one else had yet figured out how to make and it killed 100,000 people, and you knew they had another, similar one waiting, would you really say, "No! We're still going to fight!!!"There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #55 August 25, 2004 QuoteRon, can you explain why the Nagasaki bomb was right? Because while I can understand the reasoning behind the Hiroshima one, the Nagasaki one always seemed to me to be kind of a "fuck you we'll do it to show you we can and to prove that we're the biggest baddest motherfuckers out there." Sure, the Japanese Congress could not surrender with out a 100% unanimous vote. They had a few war hawks QuoteAccording to Marshall: "We bad to assume that a force of 2.5 million Japanese would fight to the death as they did on all those islands we [already] attacked. . . . We felt this despite what [Army Air Force] generals with cigars in their mouths [an obvious reference to Curtis LeMay] had to say about bombing the Japanese into submission. We killed 100,000 Japanese in one raid in one night, but it didn't mean a thing insofar as actually beating the Japanese." QuoteU.S. Army prepared to attack thousands of eaves manned by "determined and fanatical [soldiers] whom we would have to exterminate, almost man by man." To reduce casualties, Marshall was then in the process of arming his infantry with a host of old and new weapons-body armor, a "super flamethrower," and poison gas, But, according to one Army study, it "was the single weapon [the atomic bomb] hitherto unused which assuredly can decrease the cost in American lives and should materially shorten the war."25 QuoteThoroughly familiar with America's tendency to avoid long-distance operations, the imperial army was "absolutely sure" the United States would make a shorter hop. Hence, Japan stripped Honshu of assets to build up Kyushu, where. 900,000 soldiers (ten times as many as fought on Okinawa) were ready to "inflict severe losses on the enemy when he invades Japan." Unlike the Germans in Northwest Europe, who were deceived about Normandy in June 1944, the Japanese correctly predicted the exact landing locations and the approximate date of the attack shortly before the United States decided what to do itself. QuoteJapanese officials immediately recognized that Potsdam was far more lenient than generally expected and softer than the terms imposed on Germany -- which was never offered any terms at all. The Japanese peace faction tried to persuade the emperor that, ipso facto, the document meant the abandonment of unconditional surrender. The military faction considered the document proof that America's will to fight had eroded and demanded its unequivocal rejection to solidify morale inside Japanese Army ranks. ("For the enemy [the Allies] to say something like that means circumstances have arisen that force them also to end the war.") Whatever way it was interpreted, the proclamation failed its function according to the JCS--that is, "to induce Japan's surrender and thus avoid the heavy casualties implied in a fight to the finish." QuoteOn 10 August, after America dropped the only other atomic bomb in its arsenal-but warned of "a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth" - the emperor overruled the Imperial Japanese Army. The Japanese Army still had 2.35 million men under arms inside Japan, not having suffered the massive devastation that had been inflicted on the Japanese Air Force and Navy. In fact, the Japanese sneered at their erstwhile Axis ally for surrendering when only some 2.5 million Russians had fought their way through Berlin. The Germans lacked the "Bushido" tradition, commented the Japanese press. Now, the imperial armed forces pleaded for the chance to "find life in death ... .. If we are prepared to sacrifice 20,000,000 Japanese lives in a special attack [kamikaze] effort, victory shall be ours!" It was only the second weapon that made the Emperor override the congress and ask for surrender. Quote The emperor could now annul the unwritten constitution and capitulate without challenging the valor of the Japanese Army. One member of the peace faction would confidentially tell an American interrogator that the atomic bomb "was a good excuse" for surrender. More typical citizens would still tell American reporters that the United States "would [never] have dared attempt a seaborne invasion." On 15 August, Hirohito made his first and last radio broadcast to his nation: ''The war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage. [Military defeat, per se, was never mentioned.] Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb taking the toll of many innocent lives, Should we continue to fight, it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization."59 Lest the "whole nation be reduced to ashes" by the hundred atomic bombs America was thought to have, the imperial government accepted the Potsdam Declaration, "with the understanding that [it] does not comprise any demand which prejudices the prerogatives of His Majesty as a Sovereign Ruler." Actually, the Allied terms only offered "sovereignty" for the Japanese nation, not the dynasty per se. The rulers of the island were insisting (as one Japanese diplomat confirmed) that there would be no change in the political institutions of imperial Japan, even if no Japanese empire was left standing to rule. These men were accepting, twenty months too late, the sole demand of the Cairo Conference for the liquidation of all overseas possessions. By now this was "conditional surrender," according to NBC radio news It was the fear of being destoyed by the thought that we had "hundreds" of those weapons that made it so the Japanese finnaly saw that the risk to the government and history of Japan was less than being blown turned to ash. Until the second attack they could not choose."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #56 August 25, 2004 Quote And, let's just be logical here......if someone dropped a brand new bomb which no one else had yet figured out how to make and it killed 100,000 people, and you knew they had another, similar one waiting, would you really say, "No! We're still going to fight!!!" They did exactly that: QuoteOn 10 August, after America dropped the only other atomic bomb in its arsenal-but warned of "a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth" - the emperor overruled the Imperial Japanese Army. The Japanese Army still had 2.35 million men under arms inside Japan, not having suffered the massive devastation that had been inflicted on the Japanese Air Force and Navy. In fact, the Japanese sneered at their erstwhile Axis ally for surrendering when only some 2.5 million Russians had fought their way through Berlin. The Germans lacked the "Bushido" tradition, commented the Japanese press. Now, the imperial armed forces pleaded for the chance to "find life in death ... .. If we are prepared to sacrifice 20,000,000 Japanese lives in a special attack [kamikaze] effort, victory shall be ours!" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #57 August 25, 2004 QuoteA cluster bomb is... Feel free to quote your sources, or are they so ridiculous that you won't even post them?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #58 August 25, 2004 >How many people did he have to kill to reach the BillVon's critical kill limit? I don't know; I'm neither a cop nor a judge. How many people would we have to kill before you would denounce the US? >Still 5,000 people in a mass grave? Thats still a lot of Mom's, Dad's, > Sisters, Brothers, and Children. I mean you cry about the ppor here in > America, and the down trodden all over the world, but these 5,000 people >were killed. And so we killed 10,000. We raped children and tortured women. When someone commits a crime it does not give you license to do worse things. >SH was a major asshole, he has always been a major asshole, and he > needed to go. If it was in our political interests, we would be allies with him. In fact, we WERE allies with him when he was an asshole (as you yourself said, he's always been an asshole.) We sold him WMD's. So any claim that "we tolerate no killers!" is hypocritical in the extreme. We welcome them with open arms and gifts if they are willing to kill the right people for us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #59 August 25, 2004 >1. That Major asshole has started one war already. >2. That Major asshole has used WMD's. >3. That Major asshole sponsors terroism. So far you've described both the US and Saddam. >4. That Major asshole is a destabilizing force in a volatile region. Israel is a much stronger destabilizing force. >5. That Major asshole kills an tourtures his own people. We kill and torture innocent Iraqis. >6. That Major asshole is trying too build a WMD program. We DID build one. And we're the only one, ever, to use nukes on innocent people. >7. That Major asshole would destroy America if given half a chance. Want me to show you that picture again of Saddam shaking hands with Rumsfeld? He was our bestest friend when we weren't trying to kill him. If you are going to defend the war, about the only tenable way to do it now is to say "Hey, we had bad intel, we were wrong - but it seemed like the right thing to do at the time." Trying to recast the case for war two years after the fact is revisionism at its best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #60 August 25, 2004 Quote1. We've started 2 wars over the past 4 years Let's get our facts straight here... who started the war in Afganistan? Do you recall 9/11/01? As for Iraq, perhapse a mere technicallity, but SH was not allowing unfettered access to UN inspection teams, and was engaging in deceptive activities with regard to what programs he had, or did not have... This was a requirement of the '91 ceasefire... yes, ceasefire, not peace treaty... so, technically, this actions was put in motion by the invasion of Kuwait... Quote2. We've used WMD (cluster bombs) Cluster munitions are area weapons, not WMDs... WMDs are generally accepted to be Nukes, Chemical Weapons, Biologic Weapons, or ballistic missiles with greater than a certain range. Quote5. We've killed and tortured his own people Yes, we've killed his people, its part of war... Yes we've torture his people, in an isolated incident. His actions were against the people he governed, and his actions were systematic, and routine. Quote6. We're building WMD programs We are actually reducing our programs and stockpiles JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #61 August 25, 2004 Quote>3. That Major asshole sponsors terroism. So far you've described both the US and Saddam. Which groups are currently sponoring? Quote>5. That Major asshole kills an tourtures his own people. We kill and torture innocent Iraqis. Your're right, we have... the difference being that, in gerneral, we make an effort to avoid it... Quote>6. That Major asshole is trying too build a WMD program. We DID build one. And we're the only one, ever, to use nukes on innocent people. I'm sure you recall learing about the events of 12/7/41... Japan delacred war on us... As a nation they were not innocent... that was the nature of warfare at the time. SH used them on his OWN people, as well as Iran. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #62 August 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's called reading, and coming to a conclusion based off of history, not the latest political ad..You should try it. Are they using Nagasaki in ads????? Maybe I should watch tv! I'm curious as to how they're doing that! And, they even teach middle schoolers that dropping the second bomb was a mistake. Even our public school systems know better! They taught us the same thing in my College Prep High School that was ranked in the tops as far as academics (they spent money on academics instead of a football team) in the country. Guess they were wrong as well. I had three PhD's teaching me in my junior year - one in history, the same history class that said it wasn't a wise move._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #63 August 25, 2004 Quote>1. That Major asshole has started one war already. >2. That Major asshole has used WMD's. >3. That Major asshole sponsors terroism. So far you've described both the US and Saddam. 1. Yes. However we had support from MOST of the Congress (I think ONE person abstained). 2. Yep, 59 years ago we dropped two Nukes. Estimates claim that 500,000 lives were saved by using those weapons to end a WAR started by Japans attack on Pearl Harbor. Vs. SH using gas to kill innocent civilians to "Test what would happen". 3. Yep. We even sponsored OBL. But that was the Government vs ONE man. You have shown that the US has doone bad things...But SH did them all HIMSELF. Quote>4. That Major asshole is a destabilizing force in a volatile region. Israel is a much stronger destabilizing force. I agree. Quote>5. That Major asshole kills an tourtures his own people. We kill and torture innocent Iraqis. WE? You and I Bill? I don't remember doing that. Or a few assholes that are Americans? There is a difference. Quote>6. That Major asshole is trying too build a WMD program. We DID build one. And we're the only one, ever, to use nukes on innocent people Yep, 59 years ago this mth we dropped two nukes on Japan. However, it was during a WAR and used to end that war and it saved lives. Of interest is that both Germany and Japan were working on such weapons as well. Quote>7. That Major asshole would destroy America if given half a chance. Want me to show you that picture again of Saddam shaking hands with Rumsfeld? He was our bestest friend when we weren't trying to kill him. Well we used to be bitter enemies with Russia as well. Things change. QuoteIf you are going to defend the war, about the only tenable way to do it now is to say "Hey, we had bad intel, we were wrong - but it seemed like the right thing to do at the time." Trying to recast the case for war two years after the fact is revisionism at its best. I am saying that we had some bad intel...But it also removed an asshole from power."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #64 August 25, 2004 QuoteThey taught us the same thing in my College Prep High School that was ranked in the tops as far as academics (they spent money on academics instead of a football team) in the country. Guess they were wrong as well. I had three PhD's teaching me in my junior year - one in history, the same history class that said it wasn't a wise move. Did your great school teach you that Oswald was the lone gunman?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #65 August 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteThey taught us the same thing in my College Prep High School that was ranked in the tops as far as academics (they spent money on academics instead of a football team) in the country. Guess they were wrong as well. I had three PhD's teaching me in my junior year - one in history, the same history class that said it wasn't a wise move. Did your great school teach you that Oswald was the lone gunman? The black helicopters posted outside my school at all times prevented that topic from being discussed. And what in the hell does that have to do with the price of bread? Focus and make you point because you are all over the map._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #66 August 25, 2004 >Which groups are currently sponoring? Do you mean which are _we_ currently sponsoring? None; we're doing all our fighting directly lately. It is pretty safe to say that Al Qaeda would not be much of an issue if we didn't sponsor their parent organization (the Mujahideen) and Hussein wouldn't have been as much of an issue if we hadn't helped him out with aid and weapons. >Japan delacred war on us... As a nation they were not innocent... So if an Iraqi terrorist blows up, say, the Sears Tower, the Iraqi resistance could claim that no innocents were killed, since we declared war on Iraq? Most people make a distinction between innocent people in a building and military targets. Even our military usually understands the difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #67 August 25, 2004 QuoteThe black helicopters posted outside my school at all times prevented that topic from being discussed. Way to dodge the question! QuoteAnd what in the hell does that have to do with the price of bread? Focus and make you point because you are all over the map. My school DID say that Oswald was the lone gunman. The evidence does not seem that way anymore, and the last texbook I saw said there *might* have been a second gunman. Mine didn't say anything about a possible second gunman. Imagine what FACTS we will have in 30 more years? Sometimes the REAL information does not come out till many years later, and school books don't always have it correct. BTW Bread is about 1.29 here."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #68 August 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe black helicopters posted outside my school at all times prevented that topic from being discussed. Way to dodge the question! QuoteAnd what in the hell does that have to do with the price of bread? Focus and make you point because you are all over the map. My school DID say that Oswald was the lone gunman. The evidence does not seem that way anymore, and the last texbook I saw said there *might* have been a second gunman. Mine didn't say anything about a possible second gunman. Imagine what FACTS we will have in 30 more years? Sometimes the REAL information does not come out till many years later. Well, I don't necessarily hold McGraw Hill books as a credible source of information, but if you want to thats fine. My instructor did let us know the controversy behind the assassination and how some facts were coming out, etc. Thats the great thing about having good teachers that have a passion for their field. Yes, it is amazing how the real truth about things come out over time. Still, I don't see how this has anything to do with Kerry, Nagasaki or what color the sky is. Anyone that has spent more than 10 minutes in this forum knows that you will, for the most part, defend all actions of the US Military. You may have good intentions and you may actually believe what you are saying, but you are just like all the other military puppets out there that refuse to question or doubt the chain of command. I have seen this from within my own family and watched it change them._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #69 August 25, 2004 QuoteMy school DID say that Oswald was the lone gunman. Luckily, some of us went to good public schools (yes, mine is one of the few.)There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #70 August 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteA cluster bomb is... Feel free to quote your sources, or are they so ridiculous that you won't even post them? Wow Kennedy, you are such a funny guy! A simple search on Google Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #71 August 25, 2004 QuoteWell, I don't necessarily hold McGraw Hill books as a credible source of information, but if you want to thats fine. My instructor did let us know the controversy behind the assasination and how some facts were coming out, etc. Thats the great thing about having good teachers that have a passion for their field. Well good for you, but that does not mean they were correct about everything. The simple facts are that the Japanese were not willing to surrender. If you had ANY clue about the code of Bushido you would know that it is better to die in battle or commit suicide than surrender. QuoteStill, I don't see how this has anything to do with Kerry, Nagasaki or what color the sky is. Kerry well this was a post about him, but it turned into uninformed people voiceing opinions about the US's use of a second weapon in Japan to end WWII. As for the sky...It's grey here in FL. QuoteAnyone that has spent more than 10 minutes in this forum knows that you will, for the most part, defend all actions of the US Military. And anyone that has been on these forums for 10 min knows that you will not agree with me. Your reasons for that are yours. QuoteYou may have good intentions and you may actually believe what you are saying, but you are just like all the other military puppets out there that refuse to question or doubt the chain of command. And you are just like the non-military group that thinks that just because we can follow orders means we can't think. However all military people were at one time civilians (and some are civilians again). While you will never know anything about the military other than your "perceptions". QuoteI have seen this from within my own family and watched it change it them. 9 out of 10 times I would say it makes them better people....But you will of course not agree."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #72 August 25, 2004 Quote "No! We're still going to fight!!!" you really need to understand the Japanese warrior mindset (taught even to women and children at an early age) to understand, yes, it means exactly that. It is very difficult (and costly in terms of lives on all sides) to invade a country who's core belief is that it is better to die with honor than live in shame. When it came to defending their home, every man woman and child would have fought, and their women were highly trained. US WW II era soldiers would have had a very difficult time dealing with that kind of resistance, and the Japanese military had stockpiled weapons and explosives for just such an event. Thousands of suicide submarines (human guided torpedoes) lined the docks..the death toll on both sides would have been staggering, and much of it would have been simple (but unavoidable) slaughter…Have you actually looked at the numbers for the small island invasions that have been performed in the past?? sure, some history books may call it a ‘mistake’, we probably could have ‘laid siege’ and waited them out…..at what cost? It is ridiculous to call the second bomb a ‘mistake’ from anything other than a humanitarian view. Militarily it was a stunning success.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #73 August 25, 2004 Quote The simple facts are that the Japanese were not willing to surrender. If you had ANY clue about the code of Bushido you would know that it is better to die in battle or commit suicide than surrender. Pretty funny. You blast bad public schools, then when someone posts they went to a great school you make fun of that as well. I'm sure if my teachers point of view agreed with yours you would have used it as a point to stand on. Pretty comical, this forum is fun! No wonder people post in here. I'm probably a bit more studied than you know, but I do not feel the need to prove this to you. Unlike others I keep myself well read and informed for my own good, not to argue gratuitously in a public forum, or fight to have the last word. Thats what the speech team was for in High School - it was fun back then. QuoteAnd you are just like the non-military group that thinks that just because we can follow orders means we can't think. However all military people were at one time civilians (and some are civilians again). While you will never know anything about the military other than your "perceptions". Growing up on the south side, blue collar world of Chicago I couldn't throw a rock without hitting someone in the area that wasn't in the military at one time. I've heard countless stories on how it ruined most peoples lives. I continue to see it on a weekly basis at my job where former military people are coming to me complaining about never getting the education promised to them by the recruiter and how they have been screwed out of the post-enlistment benefits. I would say I average at least 5 a week. My views on war, military, politics, will never match up with yours._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #74 August 25, 2004 Uh huh. So which of those well respected site were you quoting? I'd laugh if I didn't think you were trying to insult me. Let's post the "about us" section from your first quote, and let everyon judge for themselves. QuoteAbout the War & Peace Foundation Originally founded in 1982 as an anti-nuclear organization, The War and Peace Foundation is an international NGO committed to political and social change. Through lectures, community organizing, book projects, and the circulation of audio and video materials, the foundation is committed to the promotion of world peace through the development of a well-informed public. The War & Peace Foundation seeks to: * Hasten an end to militarism, war, and the causes of war; * Establish and maintain world law through the strengthening of a democratic United Nations; * Press nations to comply with repeated United Nations and World Court calls for nuclear disarmament; * Move quickly towards complete disarmament and global verification; * Hasten the development of a sustainable world- just, free, and secure; * Further develop the instruments of communication to help achieve these ends. Yeah, one world, anti-nuke people tend to be real experts on miltary terms and distinctions. Besides, from the above stated goals, shouldn't they be cheering for anyone fighting against Saddam? edit: I'm not saying these are wonderful weapons, only that they are not WMDs. They are little different from land mines. (protesters hate them becuase they become like landmies if they don't function properly, or because they dispense land mines)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #75 August 25, 2004 Quoteyou really need to understand the Japanese warrior mindset No, I just need to understand the American bubble mindset of "Let's blow stuff up! It only matters if US civilians die! Who cares about other civilians?" QuoteIt is ridiculous to call the second bomb a ‘mistake’ from anything other than a humanitarian view. Militarily it was a stunning success. Yes, and that's what really matters...military successes. I'm really surprised to see people actually think that second bomb was necessary.....There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
