quade 4 #1 August 24, 2004 I understand the grief this is causing for some Vietnam vets, but as a campain issue, it's turning out to be a flop. Take a look at this graphic from PollingReport.Com. It appears as if the -vast- majority of voters believe he earned them. That being the case, does it make any sense for the Republicans to give any further tacit approval of the negative on this. No. And it looks like they are calling for a stop to it -- at least on the surface. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L7OKG0.html Good for them. I wonder when we're going to see the end of 527s?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #2 August 24, 2004 Do you think that 20% of the independent vote is insignificant? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 August 24, 2004 I think if the Republicans are split 39/38 and the Democrats are split 78/8 then yes a 59/20 split of independants isn't that big of a deal. If you look at the total you end up with 59/21 so I just don't see the medal issue as being significant. 59 to 21 is an overwhelming split.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #4 August 24, 2004 Wishful thinking. Consider the source. Kerry is making this more of an issue by leading with it. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 August 24, 2004 Quote Wishful thinking. Consider the source. Kerry is making this more of an issue by leading with it. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Kerry says he earned them and the public believes he did by a HUGE margin therefore anyone trying to discount them is the one at risk, not Kerry.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #6 August 24, 2004 What happened to the other 20%??? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 August 24, 2004 Quote What happened to the other 20%??? I think it's safe to assume they're undecided. That's usually how polls work. Here's the full poll. http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04misc.htmquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #8 August 24, 2004 I should've elaborated. Isn't that 40% of independents who have some question about Kerry's veracity? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #9 August 24, 2004 Quote Isn't that 40% of independents who have some question about Kerry's veracity? Not the way you'd normally read a poll it isn't. Otherwise you could just as well throw all the undecideds into the "yes they believe he earned them" group.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #10 August 24, 2004 QuoteI wonder when we're going to see the end of 527s? Not until both sides decide they are hindering themselve by using them, or they are made illegal. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #11 August 24, 2004 QuoteNot until both sides decide they are hindering themselve by using them, or they are made illegal. Well, technically, the "sides" don't use 527s. It'll be interesting to see what the FEC has to say about the Swift Boat group, but according to the rules I don't think they get to do that until -after- the election. Some kinda silly system there, eh?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #12 August 24, 2004 QuoteQuote Wishful thinking. Consider the source. Kerry is making this more of an issue by leading with it. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Kerry says he earned them and the public believes he did by a HUGE margin therefore anyone trying to discount them is the one at risk, not Kerry. The point I'm trying to make is that your premise about the medals is wishful thinking. It's manufactured news (polling). It doesn't mean anything. Kerry is being damaged by leading with his Vietnam record and getting angry at the Swift Boat Vets for making an issue of it (when he is the one who is constantly bringing it up.) If you think that polling truly reflects how the final results of the election will be that is your choice. Manufactured polls are used by the media to try to form rather than reflect public opinion... it's a dirty little secret that is biting Kerry hard. When the campaign gets to his record in the senate, then he'll really be in deep doodoo. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #13 August 24, 2004 Quoteinteresting to see what the FEC has to say about the Swift Boat group I believe there is a FEC complaint against Kerry's campaign and a 527 as well... I don't recall which one... but the talking heads were discussing it today. It is both sides of the fence that have problems with these "unaffiliated" groups. And, yes, it is a silly system. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #14 August 24, 2004 Quote The point I'm trying to make is that your premise about the medals is wishful thinking. I have no premise here and no wishful thinking. Simply pointing out the poll and considering the game playing by all sides. The questions posed by the poll are valid considering the Swift Boat ads. I can see nothing "manufactured" in the poll. Had the poll asked a question to the effect of, "Would you have a positive or negative reation to news revealing GWB kicked dogs?" -- yes, that would be a "push-poll" and manufactured "news". This is not that. It's a real issue in context with what has and is going on over the ads.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,169 #15 August 24, 2004 >When the campaign gets to his record in the senate, then he'll really be in deep doodoo. Right! Because the entire GOP campaign has overlooked that which you noticed almost right away. And getting voting records is hard - it can take you upwards of 10 minutes on the net to get that info. No wonder no one has made an issue of it yet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #16 August 24, 2004 QuoteQuote I have no premise here and no wishful thinking. Simply pointing out the poll and considering the game playing by all sides. Sure you did, you said... QuoteI understand the grief this is causing for some Vietnam vets, but as a campain issue, it's turning out to be a flop. So your premise is that the medal issue is turning out to be a flop. The exact opposite is true, regardless of the polling (just do an AP search and see the number of articles written. The whole article you refer to is a sham. The title "Bush Criticizes Anti-Kerry Television Ad" is misleading on it's foundation. I heard the entire interview front to back. The reporter asked the question of that particular ad (Swift Boat), and the President replied that he thought all 527 funding was wrong and it all should stop since it broke the spirit and intent of McCain-Feingold. This isn't expressed well in the article. If it's such a flop as a campaign issue, why is every major news media outlet running a story backed up by a poll? Medals are not awarded by popular opinion. There are very explicit grounds for awarding Purple Hearts, Bonze and Silver Stars. Kerry could end all the debate on this subject by simply releasing copies of the exact citations for his Silver and Bronze Stars, as well as his three Purple Hearts. Yet he explicitely refuses to do so, and continues to demean his fellow shipmates during his campaign stops. Therefore, the Swift Boat vets are simply responding in the best way they can...by running these ads and by publishing a book (#1 again on Amazon.com.) It's funny how a $150,000 ad has the press up at arms, running polls and such. However, they fail to even mention the $27,000,000 that George Soros has pumped in to MoveOn.org. And this organization has direct, admitted ties to the Kerry Campaign. Funny how the press isn't doing a story on that. Bottom line is, the press is trying to talk the American people out of the Kerry medal/Swift Boat controversy. Kerry started it, and could end it but refuses to do so. By him revealing the citations to his medals, he will show what they were truly given for and open himself up to so much more crap than he is already experiencing. But, this is all my opinion. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jazzjumper 0 #17 August 24, 2004 Quote>Right! Because the entire GOP campaign has overlooked that which you noticed almost right away. And getting voting records is hard - it can take you upwards of 10 minutes on the net to get that info. No wonder no one has made an issue of it yet! That could be the problem...or the GOP might also realize that it isn't a good idea to change the subject when your opponent is causing more harm to himself than you could ever do. When the Republican convention is over, and the real race begins, Kerry's record will be brought out in public. But, it won't sway those who have already decided. It will however influence others. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,169 #18 August 24, 2004 >or the GOP might also realize that it isn't a good idea to change the > subject when your opponent is causing more harm to himself than > you could ever do. Or the GOP might not be so eager to concentrate on which candidate took more time off, or which candidate screwed up more often, or which candidate made a bigger mess of things during the time they were serving in their respective offices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jazzjumper 0 #19 August 24, 2004 QuoteOr the GOP might not be so eager to concentrate on which candidate took more time off, or which candidate screwed up more often, or which candidate made a bigger mess of things during the time they were serving in their respective offices. Well, I'm ready for them to bring both records out, and let them stand on their own. I have no doubt which one will be taking the oath in January. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydyvr 0 #20 August 24, 2004 QuoteOr the GOP might not be so eager to concentrate on which candidate took more time off . . . When did Bush miss 76% of ANYTHING, much less the primary job he was elected to do? I'm hoping even a tiny percentage of the masses of 'Friends' watching political oblivions out there will be swayed when they inevitably hear the 76% figure coming from the reluctant mouths of Blather, Brokaw, and Jennings. All we need is a few of them. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,169 #21 August 24, 2004 >When did Bush miss 76% of ANYTHING, much less the primary job > he was elected to do? He seemed to miss around 90% of the justifications for the Iraq war. "Hey, we weren't lying, we were just incompetent" may not make the top 10 list of GOP campaign slogans; I suspect that's another issue they will want to quietly sweep under the rug. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #22 August 24, 2004 What surprises me most is that people are making a decision about fact based on political affiliation. Surely whether or not he earned those medals is a question of fact divorced from politics? Yes you may like the guy or like his competitor, but at the end of the day he either earned the medals or he did not and that question has nothing to do with who is running in what election 30odd years later. It’s just amazing that there is such a marked split down party lines. It means people are deciding a question of fact, not on the facts or on a consideration of the evidence, but based on which party Kerry belongs to… that’s just odd, because his political affiliation has nothing to do with whether or not he won those medals… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #23 August 24, 2004 QuoteWell, technically, the "sides" don't use 527s. Especially when they're not funded by personal friends and business associates (Karl Rove). And their paid campaign workers (Ken Cordier) don't appear on commercials for the 527's. Also when the GOP puts out official flyers advertising an event being held by the 527. I guess that's "technically" not using them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #24 August 24, 2004 QuoteEspecially when they're not funded by personal friends and business associates (Karl Rove). And their paid campaign workers (Ken Cordier) don't appear on commercials for the 527's. Also when the GOP puts out official flyers advertising an event being held by the 527. I guess that's "technically" not using them. I didn't see Kerry saying Moveon was a bad group...And last I heard the Dems liked Moore. So why cry now that another group hits your guy?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #25 August 24, 2004 Its bad for Bush to benefit from them, but OK for Kerry? QuoteWhile Kerry and Democrats have demanded that Bush condemn the attack on his war record, the president has been targeted by an estimated $60 million in commercials by outside groups since the campaign began. Kerry has declined to call for an end to those ads, which helped him at a time when he did not have the funds to compete with Bush' campaign advertising budget. Gee he does not condem them when they worked FOR him, but now there is one against him he cries unfair?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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jazzjumper 0 #17 August 24, 2004 Quote>Right! Because the entire GOP campaign has overlooked that which you noticed almost right away. And getting voting records is hard - it can take you upwards of 10 minutes on the net to get that info. No wonder no one has made an issue of it yet! That could be the problem...or the GOP might also realize that it isn't a good idea to change the subject when your opponent is causing more harm to himself than you could ever do. When the Republican convention is over, and the real race begins, Kerry's record will be brought out in public. But, it won't sway those who have already decided. It will however influence others. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,169 #18 August 24, 2004 >or the GOP might also realize that it isn't a good idea to change the > subject when your opponent is causing more harm to himself than > you could ever do. Or the GOP might not be so eager to concentrate on which candidate took more time off, or which candidate screwed up more often, or which candidate made a bigger mess of things during the time they were serving in their respective offices. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #19 August 24, 2004 QuoteOr the GOP might not be so eager to concentrate on which candidate took more time off, or which candidate screwed up more often, or which candidate made a bigger mess of things during the time they were serving in their respective offices. Well, I'm ready for them to bring both records out, and let them stand on their own. I have no doubt which one will be taking the oath in January. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #20 August 24, 2004 QuoteOr the GOP might not be so eager to concentrate on which candidate took more time off . . . When did Bush miss 76% of ANYTHING, much less the primary job he was elected to do? I'm hoping even a tiny percentage of the masses of 'Friends' watching political oblivions out there will be swayed when they inevitably hear the 76% figure coming from the reluctant mouths of Blather, Brokaw, and Jennings. All we need is a few of them. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,169 #21 August 24, 2004 >When did Bush miss 76% of ANYTHING, much less the primary job > he was elected to do? He seemed to miss around 90% of the justifications for the Iraq war. "Hey, we weren't lying, we were just incompetent" may not make the top 10 list of GOP campaign slogans; I suspect that's another issue they will want to quietly sweep under the rug. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #22 August 24, 2004 What surprises me most is that people are making a decision about fact based on political affiliation. Surely whether or not he earned those medals is a question of fact divorced from politics? Yes you may like the guy or like his competitor, but at the end of the day he either earned the medals or he did not and that question has nothing to do with who is running in what election 30odd years later. It’s just amazing that there is such a marked split down party lines. It means people are deciding a question of fact, not on the facts or on a consideration of the evidence, but based on which party Kerry belongs to… that’s just odd, because his political affiliation has nothing to do with whether or not he won those medals… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 August 24, 2004 QuoteWell, technically, the "sides" don't use 527s. Especially when they're not funded by personal friends and business associates (Karl Rove). And their paid campaign workers (Ken Cordier) don't appear on commercials for the 527's. Also when the GOP puts out official flyers advertising an event being held by the 527. I guess that's "technically" not using them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #24 August 24, 2004 QuoteEspecially when they're not funded by personal friends and business associates (Karl Rove). And their paid campaign workers (Ken Cordier) don't appear on commercials for the 527's. Also when the GOP puts out official flyers advertising an event being held by the 527. I guess that's "technically" not using them. I didn't see Kerry saying Moveon was a bad group...And last I heard the Dems liked Moore. So why cry now that another group hits your guy?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #25 August 24, 2004 Its bad for Bush to benefit from them, but OK for Kerry? QuoteWhile Kerry and Democrats have demanded that Bush condemn the attack on his war record, the president has been targeted by an estimated $60 million in commercials by outside groups since the campaign began. Kerry has declined to call for an end to those ads, which helped him at a time when he did not have the funds to compete with Bush' campaign advertising budget. Gee he does not condem them when they worked FOR him, but now there is one against him he cries unfair?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
