What should he do?

[Dagny 0]

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/5047091/detail.html

So, Paul Hamm won gold for the all-around men's gymnastics competition. Unfortunately for Yang Tae-young, the bronze medalist, a scoring error from the judges allowed it to happen. Apparently, Yang's start value on the parallel bars should have been a 10. The judges gave him, mistakenly, a start value of 9.9 which allowed Hamm to win the gold by a mere 0.12.

Korea needed to file an appeal before the games moved on to the next venue, but failed to do that. The rules are that once the next venue is begun, no appeals are accepted. Regardless, Korea is protesting the mistake. Three of the judges were suspended in the matter.

The question is...what should Paul Hamm do? It seems like the right thing to do would be resign the gold to Yang as he won on a technicality. That would be the honorable thing to do.

However, Korea did miss their window to appeal the loss which is the reason Hamm had the gold placed around his neck. It looks like he plans on keeping it. Really, can anyone blame him?

Should a second gold medal be produced so that Hamm and Yang can share the title of best all around?

I don't know what I would do in the same situation. I'm no olympian, that's for sure. But, I don't like to win things unless I deserve them. Personally, I doubt I would keep a medal I didn't earn, especially one that is surrounded by such controversy.

What are your thoughts?

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[wmw999 2,583]

Apparently Korea inquired informally about filing a protest, and was told nothing could be done until after the games. Obviously, they should know better (and they probably asked someone who just didn't want to be inconvenienced, I doubt there was a nefarious purpose in that).

I think the Korean should get the gold medal. I think the IOC should do it. And I think Paul Hamm should very gracefully go along with it. As, from what I've read about him, he would be likely to do. Either way, if he keeps the gold medal, it's tainted. If he is graceful, he earns even more in good will.

Of course, I'm not in control of that, either.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelel01 1]

I think he should give the gold back, but right now he's probably surrounded by people telling him to keep it. I wouldn't be able to look at it, though, without feeling like my "victory" was extremely tainted. This is a tough call to make, though, and whatever he does, I won't fault him for it.

Kelly

[peregrinerose 0]

I can only say that in the same situation, the gold wouldn't mean much to me knowing that I wasn't the rightful winner. My conscience is sometimes overactive, but in this case would force me to give the gold the the true champion.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Nightingale 0]

I think they should award Yang a gold, but allow Hamm's gold to stand as well, since the Koreans didn't file the protest by the rules.

I don't think Hamm really has the option of giving back the medal, at least, not officially. Its up to the olympic folks to decide who stands where, not the competitors.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

I was split between "give it to Yang" and "they had their chance," but I went with the former.

I think he'd show that he's the better, bigger man if he could make that noble concession.

But this bullshit idea of "make a second medal" is disgusting. ONLY ONE GUY WON THE TOP SCORE, when it is figured properly. Apparently that guy is Yang, even IF the score wasn't protested "in time." Giving a second medal to Yang would be diminishing his win, and mollifying a crybaby Hamm (if Hamm was going to whine about having the medal taken back).

I don't think Hamm should keep the medal, because if I were him, I would not feel good about a medal I was given amidst protest and controversy. I would want a clean, uncontested win. (Granted, I think the subjectivity of judging gymnastics with this 10 point system makes any "win" sketchy in the first place. How on earth is a person .12 better than someone else??)

This notion of making a second medal for the real winner so that the NON-real winner won't feel "cheated" is just touch-feely everyone's-sense-of-self-esteem-must-be-protected-at-all-costs liberalism. You don't seem conservatives catering to people's whininess. (Yeah, I said it! Come get me!)

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[CanuckInUSA 0]

It's a very similar situation as what happened in pairs figure skating during the last Winter Olympics. If the people running the show are concerned about this, then they need to give a 2nd gold medal to the Korean. Otherwise, what happened happened. You can't blame the American for wanting to keep his medal. It would show a lot of character if he was to surrender it under his own free will. But you can't ask the guy to do this. He's got to be the one doing it.

It is funny though that the gold medalist did fall flat on his ass during one of his events, yet he still won the gold? I didn't see the entire event, but I guess all the other competitors has issues as well if the gold medalist can fall flat on his ass yet still win.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Muenkel 0]

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I can only say that in the same situation, the gold wouldn't mean much to me knowing that I wasn't the rightful winner. My conscience is sometimes overactive, but in this case would force me to give the gold the the true champion.

I couldn't have said this any better.

Remember back to the '02 Winter Olympics and the whole skating/judging debacle? After all the bullshit and corruption, watching both pairs with the gold, the magic was missing. At most it was bittersweet.

_________________________________________
Chris

[turtlespeed 226]

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The judges gave him, mistakenly, a start value of 9.9 which allowed Hamm to win the gold by a mere 0.12.

10
-.10
9.90

if he won by .12

that means that the Korean still lost.

.12>.10

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I can only say that in the same situation, the gold wouldn't mean much to me knowing that I wasn't the rightful winner. My conscience is sometimes overactive, but in this case would force me to give the gold the the true champion.

I couldn't have said this any better.

Well, to be a stickler...
You could have improved the questionable grammar in this sentence:
"My conscience is sometimes overactive, but in this case would force me to give the gold the the true champion.

I think there is an "it" needed.

edit: AND delete the extra "the."
edit: And replace it with a "to."

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[kelel01 1]

He actually won by 0.049.

[Zenister 0]

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How on earth is a person .12 better than someone else??)

Runners, swimmers etc are this much 'better' all the time. It depends on what 'measurement' is being contested. In this case it is the difficulty of the routine. Yang was attempting a more complex (higher multiplier) routine than the judges originally gave him credit (start value) for, so all the performances remain identical they were just incorrectly scored.

He should give it back and take the silver he earned.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Jib 0]

Judges are human and make errors. That's what happened here. Some could say that a Greek shouldn't have won the rings last night, but you aren't allowed to make your case after the fact. Similarly, if someone had X score from the last event and you knew what you needed to win relying on that score, you might change a routine to make it more difficult. At what point do you stop going back and reviewing what happened? The rules are the rules to answer that question.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[jakee 1,593]

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He should give it back and take the silver he earned.

He probably can't do it on his own initiative exept as a gesture of support, it wouldn't affect what was recorded in the record books. I think the Koreans are in talks with the gymnastics officials at the moment, if they don't work they'll take the case to the court of arbitration for sport. They've already changed medals in the team and individual equestrian events.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Muenkel 0]

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I can only say that in the same situation, the gold wouldn't mean much to me knowing that I wasn't the rightful winner. My conscience is sometimes overactive, but in this case would force me to give the gold the the true champion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I couldn't have said this any better.

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Well, to be a stickler...
You could have improved the questionable grammar in this sentence:
"My conscience is sometimes overactive, but in this case would force me to give the gold the the true champion.

I think there is an "it" needed.

edit: AND delete the extra "the."
edit: And replace it with a "to."

-
---Jeffrey

Jeffrey,

It's time for you to go to your peaceful place.

_________________________________________
Chris

[Jen1129 0]

He shouldn't give the medal back.

The tape review also showed that Yang made a mistake that would have cost him 0.2 points if the judges had caught it.

You get into a sketchy gray area when you try to change results after the fact based on a video replay. Does anyone want to see the Super Bowl or NBA finals results changed the next morning because a replay caught a penalty or foul that should have been called?

I don't believe Hamm's medal is tainted at all.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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He should give it back and take the silver he earned.

He probably can't do it on his own initiative exept as a gesture of support, it wouldn't affect what was recorded in the record books. I think the Koreans are in talks with the gymnastics officials at the moment, if they don't work they'll take the case to the court of arbitration for sport. They've already changed medals in the team and individual equestrian events.

If he gave back the medal, and in press conferences said, "He is the real gold medalist," it wouldn't matter much whether he's "allowed" to turn the medal over to the true winner. And Almanacs, at any rate, would record the truth of what happened, even if not the Guinness Book. Almanacs have a tendency to try to get at what really went down, and not just the official story. It would be noteworthy to say, "Although the IOC says that the American won, the American himself handed over the medal to the Korean, in a gesture of supreme sportsmanship and honesty."

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Zenister 0]

he didnt change his routine, the judges had the wrong routine in mind when they gave him his starting 'score'. It is completely a paperwork mistake on the part of the judges. Since it in no way affects either athletic performance it should be corrected, and the performances ranked accordingly.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I'm torn too..but I think he should keep the gold until such time that the Olympic head honchos think he shouldn't.

These games represent many more things than just a score or rank, each country is responsible for "game" play and there are protocols to follow.. Sometimes in life we are rewarded for simply following rules and not by performance...

This must be one for the "Gods of Karma"

[lawrocket 3]

By a strict application of the rules, he should keep the gold.

Still, if he wants endorsement money and worldwide respect, he'd hand it over. This wouldn't even be an issue had he not fallen down on the vault, but he did. The feel good story of the Olympics has a twist.

And it doesn't feel so good anymore...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[akarunway 1]

So. What's new. It's all about $$$$$ anyway. Fuck the Olympics

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

So what do figure skating and gymnastics have in common? They're both judged by morons and the athletes are left to suffer.

I just caught the men's high bar event finals and the judges totally fucked up. With my untrained eye, it's hard to say for sure who was better, the Italian or the Russian. But the judges totally fucked up the Russian's score causing the crowd to go bizerk. Paul Hann had to perform while the crowd was going nuts and to his credit he did well. But in my opinion he wasn't better than the Russian yet he got the silver (my untrained eye told me that Hann was 3rd best). At least the judges gave the Italian the gold, but I still think the Russian's performance was the best except that his landing wasn't as good as the Italian's or Paul Hann's (with the exception of the other Hann bro, none of the competitors had 100% clean landings).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Ron 10]

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he didnt change his routine, the judges had the wrong routine in mind when they gave him his starting 'score'.

Actually the just gave him the wrong start score.

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The two judges in charge of assigning start values for parallel bars in the all-around, Spain's Benjamin Bango and Colombia's Oscar Buitrago Reyes, decided Yang's start value was 9.9. The head judge on the parallel bars, George Beckstead, didn't overrule them.

It was these three judges who eventually were suspended by the International Gymnastics Federation when, after studying the videotape, it was determined the start value for Yang should have been 10.0, as it had been in the team competition finals. Had it been, Yang would have scored 9.812 on the apparatus, and his total would have been .10 higher heading into his final event, the high bars.

Some more info:

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The two judges charged with determining a start value must do so in real time, and they make their assessment on the basis of what the gymnast actually does: difficulty of elements, grip changes, releases and positions, to name a few. Not what's planned on paper.

It's incredibly complicated stuff. The head judge, in this case Beckstead, a veteran official from Los Angeles, generally only weighs in if there's a disagreement between the two officials assigning the start value. In the case of Yang, there was no disagreement.

Were they wrong? Yes. But they both agreed and so did the chief judge.

Yang also screwed up on his routine and did not get caught.

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Yes, the videotape of the parallel bars showed the judges erred by assigning a 9.9 start value. But it showed something else, too. In the course of his routine, Yang had four holds on the bar, when the rules allow for a maximum of three. The deduction for that mistake? Two-tenths of a point.

The judges missed it.

So if you can go to the video to change the starting value...Then you should be able to go to the video to show the judges missed a .20 point penalty.

In the end its a wash.

Besides Hamm can not give the medal away...I mean he can give the actual medal away, but in the history books he won.

The judges made a mistake....But they also made one in his favor....It washed out.

Hamm won.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334