Trent 0 #26 August 23, 2004 QuoteI still can't believe the major attack coming from a bunch of guys who pulled strings and used familial connections to avoid Vietnam is about the details of the service of Kerry who volunteered. Technically, it's not Bush/Cheney making those attacks. So those attacks are coming from other volunteers... until the next great scandal is uncovered, right? QuoteA - who cares. Everyone tried to get out of Vietnam and avoid the draft. Well, except Kerry. But I don't hold that against them. B - who cares, it was over 30 years ago. and C - who cares. I'll tell you who cares... the people that went to Vietnam voluntarily. The people who went to Vietnam when they were drafted. The people who saw what was happening while they were there and believed they were fighting for the right reasons. The people who did incredibly heroic things for their fellow soldiers and people of South Vietnam and didn't get medals for it, or did get medals and never spoke of it again because it was their job. The families of people who never came home might care that someone is being touted as a war hero, when all they have is a framed set of medals to remind them of their loved one. Yeah, people DO care... whether you like it or not. Somewhere in the middle of the Dem effort to make Kerry the great leader and war hero and the efforts of the SBVFT, there is the truth. I'd love to know what it is so we can at least focus on the fact that Kerry has no real policy plans or even reasonable ideas for them. Kallend Says: QuoteHe is not Bush, Edwards is not Cheney, and that is as positive as it gets. That is the only reasonable argument I've heard from the left/dems/whatever to vote for Kerry. I can accept that as a reason someone would vote for these 2 clowns, at least its more honest than the other BS you hear.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #27 August 23, 2004 "SBVFT" does that stand for Socialist Beurocrats Voting For TyrannyI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #28 August 23, 2004 Quote"SBVFT" does that stand for Socialist Beurocrats Voting For Tyranny Sounds about right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #29 August 23, 2004 >"SBVFT" does that stand for >Socialist >Beurocrats >Voting >For >Tyranny Might well be a better name for that group than "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" - although I'm suprised you think of them that way. Coming around, are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #30 August 23, 2004 QuoteB - who cares, it was over 30 years ago. Then why is Kerry making his service in Vietnam a campaign issue? He put it out there for political reasons, hoping to gain support based on that service... He should not be surprised that someone might dust off the skeletons in his closet that may have otherwise just stayed hidden... As for the it was over 30-years ago part, you're right... there is plenty of record for him to fail on from his time in the Senate... and that is what should really be discussed/debated... The swift boat stuff is a bed of his own making though. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #31 August 23, 2004 Quotethere is plenty of record for him to fail on from his time in the Senate... and that is what should really be discussed/debated... I love this argument. Kerry's been in the national spotlight for 30 years. Bush has been for 4, and there's just as much shady crap on his record. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #32 August 23, 2004 QuoteKerry's been in the national spotlight for 30 years. Bush has been for 4, and there's just as much shady crap on his record. But some of that doen't count... because it was 30 years ago, right? Both candidates have policy issues that ought to be discussed... but Kerry put up his 4.5 month's in Vietnam as grounds to be CinC, and now that's the issue... Why does he choose that to say he is qualified to be CinC? Is it becasue, in his 30 years of public life, that's all he's got? JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #33 August 23, 2004 He might have said it, but he didn't make it a cornerstone issue of his campaign. The attacks against him are what brought it to the forefront as a major issue. Why is that? Possibly because Bush has nothing going for himself to campaign on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #34 August 23, 2004 What is the conerstone of his campaign? It's hard to be everything to every one. Edit to add... His sevice record gets more space on his offcial website than his time as a prosecutor, Lt. Gov., and Senator combined... like it or not, he has made it a campaign issue, maybe he though people would just take it a face value, and move on... but it didn't work out. Edit to add, part II... His time as an activist only get passing mention... is he not proud of the work he did in the name of peace? JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #35 August 23, 2004 Quote Coming around, are you? No - just trying to keep you on your toes and maybe interject a bit of humor. Humor - doesn't care what side you are on.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #36 August 23, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe ONLY positive trait Kerry has is that he's "not Bush", and you democrats know it. You state that as if it's a negative. It IS a negative! When a candidate's sole positive feature is that he's not the other guy, we have truly hit a low in the political landscape. Oh, and did I mention why I'm voting for Bush? One reason: he's not Kerry! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #37 August 24, 2004 >But these self-same people won't be bothered by the way Kerry >verbally spit on every soldier, sailor, and marine in Vietnam? I would do the same, and I suspect you would, too. A few brave soldiers in Abu Ghraib did, too, and as a result, we are no longer torturing and raping innocent people in Iraq. That was not "verbally spitting on every soldier in Iraq" - that was stopping a hideously evil practice that was common in that prison. I admire people who have the courage to speak up about what their own comrades are doing, when what they are doing is wrong. "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke. Very true, and I suspect that if you had been in Abu Ghraib, you would not have done nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #38 August 24, 2004 QuoteI love this argument. Kerry's been in the national spotlight for 30 years. Bush has been for 4, and there's just as much shady crap on his record. The national spotlight? Are you kidding me? How many people knew the name John Kerry before 2 years ago? How many people knew the name John Kerry before last year? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #39 August 24, 2004 QuotePossibly because Bush has nothing going for himself to campaign on. Finally! Some common ground between Bush and Kerry. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #40 August 25, 2004 Quote admire people who have the courage to speak up about what their own comrades are doing, when what they are doing is wrong. like the swiftboat vets? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #41 August 25, 2004 He probably meant the ones that aren't lying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #42 August 25, 2004 QuoteTechnically, it's not Bush/Cheney making those attacks. So those attacks are coming from other volunteers... until the next great scandal is uncovered, right? Ben Ginsburg, attorney for the Bush campaign admitted yesterday that he has given legal advice to the SBVFT group. On Saturday, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier resigned as a member of the Bush campaign's veterans' steering committee after it was learned that he appeared in the Swift Boat veterans' commercial. It's starting to walk and quack like a duck.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #43 August 25, 2004 Well that rules out Kerry, now doesn't it.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #44 August 25, 2004 What is the veterans' steering committee? Are campaign members not allowed to appear in commericals if asked to do so? Is that "coordination?" Now to turn it around on you, do I need to tell you about MoveOn (or was it ACT) sharing offices with DNC campaign people? Must I show you the list of democrat big wigs working for the 527s now? Remember, Soros may be a son of a bitch, but he's a successful son of a bitch. Let's not encourage him buying this election for Kerry (any more than he already plans on doing).witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #45 August 25, 2004 QuoteWhat is the veterans' steering committee? Are campaign members not allowed to appear in commericals if asked to do so? Is that "coordination?" Now to turn it around on you, do I need to tell you about MoveOn (or was it ACT) sharing offices with DNC campaign people? Must I show you the list of democrat big wigs working for the 527s now? Remember, Soros may be a son of a bitch, but he's a successful son of a bitch. Let's not encourage him buying this election for Kerry (any more than he already plans on doing). I don't disagree. However, I was responding to Trent's statement. This campaign is wallowing in slime. The only guarantee is that whoever wins will be surrounded by and beholden to a bunch of scumbags, and that you and I will pay the price.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #46 August 25, 2004 So... Bush supporters have some extracurricular activites? Wow. Gee who woulda thought that someone who is on the Bush campaign might be a veteran with something to say about Kerry's questionable military service? Either way, my point was that if you play dirty you're going to get dirty. Both campaigns probably have at least a small hand in all the 527's, not excluding golden-boy Kerry, who has just learned what it is like to be on the other side of their attacks. Oh well. Like I said before, Kerry made his service and his medals an issue. There are people who DO care what happened 30 years ago because they were there. The issue needs to be resolved one way or the other, but it is a bed of his own making.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #47 August 25, 2004 >like the swiftboat vets? Yep. And I would have had a great deal of respect for them if they had stood up and said those things when they happened. I have a little less respect for people who are paid to say things to assist a campaign - especially if they've been saying the opposite until they got the money. But hey, it is a free country, and they can say what they want. Unfortunately for the SBVFT, that's also true of the people who actually served with Kerry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #48 August 25, 2004 I dunno Bill, maybe they didn't bother to speak up because they just wanted to let things lie in order to get past it ... but when someone started tooting his own horn to get elected, they felt that they had to say something about the man they saw as unfit to be president. Just a thought.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #49 August 25, 2004 QuoteSo... Bush supporters have some extracurricular activites? Wow. Gee who woulda thought that someone who is on the Bush campaign might be a veteran with something to say about Kerry's questionable military service? . Not a problem at all, except the Bush campaign and SBVFT had denied any contact at all. Was that a lie, incompetence, or just "bad intel"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #50 August 25, 2004 Don't forget illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
