outrager 6 #1 August 19, 2004 A remarkable report by CNN: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/writers/08/19/iraq/index.html?cnn=yes PATRAS, Greece -- Iraqi midfielder Salih Sadir scored a goal here on Wednesday night, setting off a rousing celebration among the 1,500 Iraqi soccer supporters at Pampeloponnisiako Stadium. Though Iraq -- the surprise team of the Olympics -- would lose to Morocco 2-1, it hardly mattered as the Iraqis won Group D with a 2-1 record and now face Australia in the quarterfinals on Sunday. Afterward, Sadir had a message for U.S. president George W. Bush, who is using the Iraqi Olympic team in his latest re-election campaign advertisements. In those spots, the flags of Iraq and Afghanistan appear as a narrator says, "At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes." "Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential campaign," Sadir told SI.com through a translator, speaking calmly and directly. "He can find another way to advertise himself." Ahmed Manajid, who played as a midfielder on Wednesday, had an even stronger response when asked about Bush's TV advertisement. "How will he meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women?" Manajid told me. "He has committed so many crimes." The Bush campaign was contacted about the Iraqi soccer player's statements, but has yet to respond. To a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power. But they also find it offensive that Bush is using their team for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions in Iraq. "My problems are not with the American people," says Iraqi soccer coach Adnan Hamad. "They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?" At a speech in Beaverton, Ore., last Friday, Bush attached himself to the Iraqi soccer team after its opening-game upset of Portugal. "The image of the Iraqi soccer team playing in this Olympics, it's fantastic, isn't it?" Bush said. "It wouldn't have been free if the United States had not acted." Sadir, Wednesday's goal-scorer, used to be the star player for the professional soccer team in Najaf. In the city in which 20,000 fans used to fill the stadium and chant Sadir's name, U.S. and Iraqi forces have battled loyalists to rebel cleric Moktada al-Sadr for the past two weeks. Najaf lies in ruins. "I want the violence and the war to go away from the city," says Sadir, 21. "We don't wish for the presence of Americans in our country. We want them to go away." Manajid, 22, who nearly scored his own goal with a driven header on Wednesday, hails from the city of Fallujah. He says coalition forces killed Manajid's cousin, Omar Jabbar al-Aziz, who was fighting as an insurgent, and several of his friends. In fact, Manajid says, if he were not playing soccer he would "for sure" be fighting as part of the resistance. "I want to defend my home. If a stranger invades America and the people resist, does that mean they are terrorists?" Manajid says. "Everyone [in Fallujah] has been labeled a terrorist. These are all lies. Fallujah people are some of the best people in Iraq." Everyone agrees that Iraq's soccer team is one of the Olympics' most remarkable stories. If the Iraqis beat Australia on Saturday -- which is entirely possible, given their performance so far -- they would reach the semifinals. Three of the four semifinalists will earn medals, a prospect that seemed unthinkable for Iraq before this tournament. When the Games are over, though, Coach Hamad says, they will have to return home to a place where they fear walking the streets. "The war is not secure," says Hamad, 43. "Many people hate America now. The Americans have lost many people around the world--and that is what is happening in America also." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #2 August 19, 2004 QuoteTo a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power. QuoteBut they also find it offensive that Bush is using their team for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions in Iraq. It's nice to have the freedom to bitch about other people's actions (even if your bitching is inconsistent), isn't it?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #3 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteTo a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power. But they also find it offensive that Bush is using their team for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions in Iraq.*** It's nice to have the freedom to bitch about other people's actions (even if your bitching is inconsistent), isn't it? Can you POSSIBLY imagine the death toll if we just LEFT. That is what they want - Fuck the little ungratefull bastard - rap it up - lets go home. He's happy that we did what we did - now - leave - NOW. But if we go . . . .*Shrug* Like I said - fuck 'em - lets go home and see what happens - we'll leave the media there, just for S&G. Oh - but then the libs wouldn't be happy then either, would they - Bush would be chastised for leaving.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #4 August 19, 2004 QuoteIt's nice to have the freedom to bitch about other people's actions Dang dude ... Iraqis are not free. They're just living under a different dictator (GWB) that's all. Plus I have one question for you. If a foreign army invaded your homeland, what would you do? Proclaim the invading army defenders of your freedom? Ya right ... LOL ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #5 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's nice to have the freedom to bitch about other people's actions Dang dude ... Iraqis are not free. They're just living under a different dictator (GWB) that's all. Plus I have one question for you. If a foreign army invaded your homeland, what would you do? Proclaim the invading army defenders of your freedom? Ya right ... LOL ... I believe that would depend on what the leader of that country was doing that affected me and my children.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #6 August 19, 2004 QuoteCan you POSSIBLY imagine the death toll if we just LEFT. Yes people would die (it's called a civil war). But guess what? They're dying right now under GWB's regime. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #7 August 19, 2004 >I believe that would depend on what the leader of that country was >doing that affected me and my children. Let's say that your son was raped in a prison after being arrested for no reason. What would you do then? Suppose the guy in charge of the occupation said you should be grateful to him for "freeing" your son. Would you be grateful? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #8 August 19, 2004 > Oh - but then the libs wouldn't be happy then either, would they - Bush >would be chastised for leaving. Of course he would be. You are responsible for cleaning up your own messes; I learned that in kindergarten. We can't just leave, which means we will be there a long time, and we will lose a lot of soldiers. The only question that remains is - do you want the guy that made that mistake to remain in office? (Rhetorical question; I know your answer.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #9 August 19, 2004 Quote>I believe that would depend on what the leader of that country was >doing that affected me and my children. Let's say that your son was raped in a prison after being arrested for no reason. What would you do then? Suppose the guy in charge of the occupation said you should be grateful to him for "freeing" your son. Would you be grateful? Although I wouldn't like it in any way - I would understand it - It's called Big Picture.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #10 August 19, 2004 >Although I wouldn't like it in any way - I would understand it - It's called Big Picture. I find it hard to believe that you'd accept that your son was raped for the sake of "the big picture." Some things are evil no matter who does them. Raping children is never acceptable in my book; I guess some people read from different books. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #11 August 19, 2004 Let's say you were a member of the US soccer team, and Kerry decided to use you in a campaign ad without your permission. How would you feel about that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #12 August 19, 2004 QuoteLet's say you were a member of the US soccer team, and Kerry decided to use you in a campaign ad without your permission. How would you feel about that? That I believe would be different that showing a clip of a country's national soccer team, one where the team leader admits that the world is a better place without Uday Hussain, and is now out from under his murderous influece and corruption. Completely different. I believe you are referencing a picture with some soldiers in it - there is no parralel.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #13 August 19, 2004 QuoteLet's say you were a member of the US soccer team, and Kerry decided to use you in a campaign ad without your permission. How would you feel about that? How would they feel boiled in oil for losing? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #14 August 19, 2004 >That I believe would be different that showing a clip of a country's national > soccer team, one where the team leader admits that the world is a better >place without Uday Hussain, and is now out from under his murderous > influece and corruption. So it would be OK to use a picture of your team in a Kerry ad if one member of that team admitted that Bush was a dangerous warlord? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #15 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuote>I believe that would depend on what the leader of that country was >doing that affected me and my children. Let's say that your son was raped in a prison after being arrested for no reason. What would you do then? Suppose the guy in charge of the occupation said you should be grateful to him for "freeing" your son. Would you be grateful? Although I wouldn't like it in any way - I would understand it - It's called Big Picture. Who's big picture are we talking about here? You don't honestly expect anyone to believe that??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #16 August 19, 2004 QuoteDang dude ... Iraqis are not free. They're just living under a different dictator (GWB) that's all. Plus I have one question for you. If a foreign army invaded your homeland, what would you do? Proclaim the invading army defenders of your freedom? Ya right ... LOL ... They are a hell of a lot more free than they were...And most importantly they are heading towards more freedom...Something they would not have had if we had not removed SH."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #17 August 19, 2004 QuoteWho's big picture are we talking about here? You don't honestly expect anyone to believe that??? Partisan politics has a way of clouding the minds of many people towards what may be really happening out there in the world. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #18 August 19, 2004 Bottom line is that he's exploiting the image and reputation of people for his own gain without seeking their consent. And they're pissed about it. Forget about why he's using them. How much does the average athlete get for a commercial endorsement? How much is Bush paying them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #19 August 19, 2004 QuoteBottom line is that he's exploiting the image and reputation of people for his own gain without seeking their consent. And they're pissed about it. Forget about why he's using them. How much does the average athlete get for a commercial endorsement? How much is Bush paying them? Are Olympic athletes allowed to accept endorsements and monetary compensation?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #20 August 19, 2004 QuoteAre Olympic athletes allowed to accept endorsements and monetary compensation? Just Andy Roddick, Iverson, Williams, ... -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #21 August 19, 2004 Yep, have been ever since they got rid of the amateur status rule. QuoteQ: Can athletes endorse products such as shoes and clothing if they participate in the Olympics? A: The founder of the modern Olympics, the French nobleman Baron de Coubertin, was opposed to professional athletes at his games, which made their debut in 1896. He made strict rules against such things as endorsements. But those rules were phased out in the 1980s. Today's Olympians are free to collect endorsement checks. You can see just how pervasive such endorsement deals are when you watch the games. Whenever skiers finish a race or jump, they quickly snap off their skis and hold them up or lean them against their head or shoulders so that in any TV shot the name of the skis is shown to viewers. Their endorsement deals require them to do that. But the vast majority of the Olympic athletes don't get rich from these deals. Most athletes just get free equipment, which is nice but doesn't pay for food, travel, housing, etc. Most of the deals have performance clauses: The athletes get big payments if they win a gold medal, for example. So very few athletes actually get wealthy through sports http://www.usnews.com/usnews/olympics/winter/articles/event020213.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #22 August 19, 2004 QuoteBottom line is that he's exploiting the image and reputation of people for his own gain without seeking their consent. And they're pissed about it. Forget about why he's using them. How much does the average athlete get for a commercial endorsement? How much is Bush paying them? I don't know - did you ask them? How much did sKerry pay for the picture of all the people that protested their involvement in his campain?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #23 August 19, 2004 QuoteI don't know - did you ask them? Their statement that they don't want to be used in his endorsements makes that answer pretty clear. QuoteHow much did sKerry pay for the picture of all the people that protested their involvement in his campain? I've decided that I won't play along with the Coulterites and respond to any reference to sKerry after this last one. But to answer your question, don't know anything about it. But if he did use peoples images without their consent, it's wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #24 August 19, 2004 QuoteQuote>I believe that would depend on what the leader of that country was >doing that affected me and my children. Let's say that your son was raped in a prison after being arrested for no reason. What would you do then? Suppose the guy in charge of the occupation said you should be grateful to him for "freeing" your son. Would you be grateful? Although I wouldn't like it in any way - I would understand it - It's called Big Picture. No, if anyone raped your son, you would kill the beast that did it. And if you saw your neighbourg´s son get raped, you would do everything you could to protect yours. If not, sorry, you don´t deserve to have any kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #25 August 19, 2004 Quote If not, sorry, you don´t deserve to have any kids. Who is it that you think that you are - what important piece of society do you occupy to judge wether or not I am deserving of having a child or not? What inflamed hallucination are you suffering from? What POSSIBLY gives you that expertise?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
